Celtics Roster Rotation (7/1)

[ETNCeltics]

Thought I’d map out our current roster just to see how good or bad our roster is right now:

STARTERS
5 Robert Williams
4 Gordon Hayward
3 Jayson Tatum
2 Marcus Smart
1 Kemba Walker

BENCH
1st big: Grant Williams
1st swing: Jaylen Brown
1st playmaker: Carson Edwards
Utility: Semi Ojeleye

GARBAGE TIME
Guerschon Yabusele
Romeo Langford
Tremont Waters

*****
VERDICT:
As a lot on this board have stated, we have a really bad rotation up front. Timelord and Williams as our best options? Yikes! Also, I didn’t realize that the backup playmaker slot was a lot weaker than I thought.

A consolidation trade needs to happen. Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown for Bradley Beal or CJ McCollum. We need to reduce the number of guys who need shots. Marcus and Jaylen take a lot of shots. I would love to see

R. Williams
Hayward
Tatum
Beal or McCollum
Kemba

Kanter
G. Williams
Ojeleye
Langford
C. Edwards

lol that trading Brown and Smart for Beal reduces the # of guys who need shots.

[Boris Badenov]

Thought I’d map out our current roster just to see how good or bad our roster is right now:

STARTERS
5 Robert Williams
4 Gordon Hayward
3 Jayson Tatum
2 Marcus Smart
1 Kemba Walker

BENCH
1st big: Grant Williams
1st swing: Jaylen Brown
1st playmaker: Carson Edwards
Utility: Semi Ojeleye

GARBAGE TIME
Guerschon Yabusele
Romeo Langford
Tremont Waters

*****
VERDICT:
As a lot on this board have stated, we have a really bad rotation up front. Timelord and Williams as our best options? Yikes! Also, I didn’t realize that the backup playmaker slot was a lot weaker than I thought.

A consolidation trade needs to happen. Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown for Bradley Beal or CJ McCollum. We need to reduce the number of guys who need shots. Marcus and Jaylen take a lot of shots. I would love to see

R. Williams
Hayward
Tatum
Beal or McCollum
Kemba

Kanter
G. Williams
Ojeleye
Langford
C. Edwards

lol that trading Brown and Smart for Beal reduces the # of guys who need shots.

And addresses the defensive weaknesses everyone is pointing out.

[alt]

As of today, I'd identify three glaring holes in this rotation:

A lack of cutters and ball-movers - to create off-the-ball action and a dynamic offense

Thought this comment from Who on this point is great:
https://forum.celticsstrong.com/index.php?topic=100776.msg2702452#msg2702452


Lack of shooting

Boston lost an elite shooter in Irving, and two very good ones for their positions in Horford and Morris. Kemba has never been Irving's caliber except for a couple of seasons but it's plausible he'll be good enough if he can afford better shot-selection. Took a lot of shots last season and that might be the reason for his decline from the high 30s to the mid 30s that are his career average.

Kanter doesn't shoot the 3. Williams and Langford were mediocre 3pt shooters in college. Edwards shot 35% in high volume, which is promising, but likely not "good shooter right away in his rookie season" promising. Uncertain any of the rookies finds playing time even with the current roster anyway.

The team probably needs to acquire more long-range shooting and hope Smart/Brown/Tatum/Hayward improve on their last season.

Mediocre shooting would make the offensive issues mentioned above even worse.

Very weak defensive bigs


Kanter, Theis, Robert Williams, Grant Williams, Yabusele.

Hayward/Tatum. Ojeleye as another combo forward. 

I'm not sure there's a worse defensive big man rotation in the league. There isn't a single quality big man defender in the roster.

Surely Ainge will add a defensive big to this group? It'd be baffling if he didnt' and added someone like Cousins.

[wdleehi]

Starters

Kemba
Brown
Tatum
Semi
Kanter


Finishers
Kemba 
Smart
Brown
Tatum
Hayward (30 plus minutes a game)


Still need a big man who can be trusted to defend at the end of game. 

[Evantime34]

Starters

Kemba
Brown
Tatum
Semi
Kanter


Finishers
Kemba 
Smart
Brown
Tatum
Hayward (30 plus minutes a game)


Still need a big man who can be trusted to defend at the end of game.

I think they need to start Hayward to begin the year. They need him to produce as well as possible so that he can increase his value before the deadline.

[Rondo9]

I think the shooting is fine, though it wouldn’t hurt to get one more.

[wiley]

As of today, I'd identify three glaring holes in this rotation:

A lack of cutters and ball-movers - to create off-the-ball action and a dynamic offense

Thought this comment from Who on this point is great:
https://forum.celticsstrong.com/index.php?topic=100776.msg2702452#msg2702452


Lack of shooting

Boston lost an elite shooter in Irving, and two very good ones for their positions in Horford and Morris. Kemba has never been Irving's caliber except for a couple of seasons but it's plausible he'll be good enough if he can afford better shot-selection. Took a lot of shots last season and that might be the reason for his decline from the high 30s to the mid 30s that are his career average.

Kanter doesn't shoot the 3. Williams and Langford were mediocre 3pt shooters in college. Edwards shot 35% in high volume, which is promising, but likely not "good shooter right away in his rookie season" promising. Uncertain any of the rookies finds playing time even with the current roster anyway.

The team probably needs to acquire more long-range shooting and hope Smart/Brown/Tatum/Hayward improve on their last season.

Mediocre shooting would make the offensive issues mentioned above even worse.

Very weak defensive bigs


Kanter, Theis, Robert Williams, Grant Williams, Yabusele.

Hayward/Tatum. Ojeleye as another combo forward. 

I'm not sure there's a worse defensive big man rotation in the league. There isn't a single quality big man defender in the roster.

Surely Ainge will add a defensive big to this group? It'd be baffling if he didnt' and added someone like Cousins.

I thought everyone was down on Boogie's defense...

[bellerephon]

As of today, I'd identify three glaring holes in this rotation:

A lack of cutters and ball-movers - to create off-the-ball action and a dynamic offense

Thought this comment from Who on this point is great:
https://forum.celticsstrong.com/index.php?topic=100776.msg2702452#msg2702452


Lack of shooting

Boston lost an elite shooter in Irving, and two very good ones for their positions in Horford and Morris. Kemba has never been Irving's caliber except for a couple of seasons but it's plausible he'll be good enough if he can afford better shot-selection. Took a lot of shots last season and that might be the reason for his decline from the high 30s to the mid 30s that are his career average.

Kanter doesn't shoot the 3. Williams and Langford were mediocre 3pt shooters in college. Edwards shot 35% in high volume, which is promising, but likely not "good shooter right away in his rookie season" promising. Uncertain any of the rookies finds playing time even with the current roster anyway.

The team probably needs to acquire more long-range shooting and hope Smart/Brown/Tatum/Hayward improve on their last season.

Mediocre shooting would make the offensive issues mentioned above even worse.

Very weak defensive bigs


Kanter, Theis, Robert Williams, Grant Williams, Yabusele.

Hayward/Tatum. Ojeleye as another combo forward. 

I'm not sure there's a worse defensive big man rotation in the league. There isn't a single quality big man defender in the roster.

Surely Ainge will add a defensive big to this group? It'd be baffling if he didnt' and added someone like Cousins.

I thought everyone was down on Boogie's defense...

That's the point, it would be baffling if he added someone like Boogie rather than someone who plays good defense.

[wiley]

Count me as worried about this team.

We are reconstructing the failed roles from last year. Kemba will move the ball more, and play more like Isaiah did than how Kyrie played, but he's still going to take the same number of shots. Even Kantner, who is nowhere near the player Horford is, will nonetheless probably take about the same number of shots.

The franchise will only go as far as Brown and Tatum take them, and the priority should be to carve out the necessary roles for them before anything else.

I fully expect Kemba to be the adult Kyrie never was, and adapt his style some to the team's needs. I thought it would be possible to start Brown, Tatum and Hayward, but we would have needed a 3 and D point guard taking 10-12 shots for that to work. Smart might have worked out. With Kemba, we will need to spread the minutes of the three wings out over the entire game, or there will not be enough shots.

We won't have Rozier, and we better not get Morris back, but that isn't enough to sort out the starters roles.

We'll see if Stevens has learned enough from last year to make this work. I find it annoying that Ainge looks like he hasn't learned anything.

Agree completely with bolded.   Brown and Tatum both must start.  Until one of Brown, Tatum or Hayward are traded for a Danny-level (excellent) return (big man one hopes). 

I do think we can be patient if solving wing logjam through trade.  But I'm also okay keeping Hayward off the bench for the rest of his C's contract.  The salary thing is not a big deal at all due to the injury. (I mean the normal not bringing such a high cost player off the bench...is out the window....injury plus Tatum and Brown = bench super 6th man role for Hayward (in my humble opinion that's the best way to use him for the good of the team).

[bellerephon]

Count me as worried about this team.

We are reconstructing the failed roles from last year. Kemba will move the ball more, and play more like Isaiah did than how Kyrie played, but he's still going to take the same number of shots. Even Kantner, who is nowhere near the player Horford is, will nonetheless probably take about the same number of shots.

The franchise will only go as far as Brown and Tatum take them, and the priority should be to carve out the necessary roles for them before anything else.

I fully expect Kemba to be the adult Kyrie never was, and adapt his style some to the team's needs. I thought it would be possible to start Brown, Tatum and Hayward, but we would have needed a 3 and D point guard taking 10-12 shots for that to work. Smart might have worked out. With Kemba, we will need to spread the minutes of the three wings out over the entire game, or there will not be enough shots.

We won't have Rozier, and we better not get Morris back, but that isn't enough to sort out the starters roles.

We'll see if Stevens has learned enough from last year to make this work. I find it annoying that Ainge looks like he hasn't learned anything.

Agree completely with bolded.   Brown and Tatum both must start.  Until one of Brown, Tatum or Hayward are traded for a Danny-level (excellent) return (big man one hopes). 

I do think we can be patient if solving wing logjam through trade.  But I'm also okay keeping Hayward off the bench for the rest of his C's contract.  The salary thing is not a big deal at all due to the injury. (I mean the normal not bringing such a high cost player off the bench...is out the window....injury plus Tatum and Brown = bench super 6th man role for Hayward (in my humble opinion that's the best way to use him for the good of the team).

If they are hoping to trade Hayward, having him start and featuring him on offense is the best way to raise his value. Keeping him on the bench brings his value down.

[wiley]

Count me as worried about this team.

We are reconstructing the failed roles from last year. Kemba will move the ball more, and play more like Isaiah did than how Kyrie played, but he's still going to take the same number of shots. Even Kantner, who is nowhere near the player Horford is, will nonetheless probably take about the same number of shots.

The franchise will only go as far as Brown and Tatum take them, and the priority should be to carve out the necessary roles for them before anything else.

I fully expect Kemba to be the adult Kyrie never was, and adapt his style some to the team's needs. I thought it would be possible to start Brown, Tatum and Hayward, but we would have needed a 3 and D point guard taking 10-12 shots for that to work. Smart might have worked out. With Kemba, we will need to spread the minutes of the three wings out over the entire game, or there will not be enough shots.

We won't have Rozier, and we better not get Morris back, but that isn't enough to sort out the starters roles.

We'll see if Stevens has learned enough from last year to make this work. I find it annoying that Ainge looks like he hasn't learned anything.

Agree completely with bolded.   Brown and Tatum both must start.  Until one of Brown, Tatum or Hayward are traded for a Danny-level (excellent) return (big man one hopes). 

I do think we can be patient if solving wing logjam through trade.  But I'm also okay keeping Hayward off the bench for the rest of his C's contract.  The salary thing is not a big deal at all due to the injury. (I mean the normal not bringing such a high cost player off the bench...is out the window....injury plus Tatum and Brown = bench super 6th man role for Hayward (in my humble opinion that's the best way to use him for the good of the team).

If they are hoping to trade Hayward, having him start and featuring him on offense is the best way to raise his value. Keeping him on the bench brings his value down.

I don't think Hayward will be traded.  He is buddies with Kemba.  And other reasons. 

If solving wing logjam with a trade, it'll be one of Smart, Brown or Tatum headed out. 

If Hayward has to start for whatever reason, then I'd bring Tatum off the bench and do the following:

Walker, Smart, Edwards
Brown, Smart, Langford
Hayward, Tatum, Semi
G. Williams, Tatum, Semi
Kanter (or best defender big on team)

[nickagneta]

I can see Kemba/Brown/Tatum/Hayward/Kanter being the starting group all year. Stevens will still have Hayward playing a ton of minutes with the bench.

Hayward probably is first to bench at 9 minutes left in 1st and 3rd quarter then comes back in after a 6 minute rest and comes in when Kemba sits to run the 2nd team offense. Then sits a few minutes after a 9 minute run and comes back to play the last 3 minutes of the half and game with the starters. That gives him 30 minutes a game but 18 of those minutes being the main facilitator for the bench.

That way Hayward has a higher value because he is a starter even if playing most of his minutes with the bench. There is no need for him, Tatum or Brown to come off the bench. Let them be considered starters but use a proper rotation to keep Hayward playing the point forward position for the bench crew.

[gouki88]

Count me as worried about this team.

We are reconstructing the failed roles from last year. Kemba will move the ball more, and play more like Isaiah did than how Kyrie played, but he's still going to take the same number of shots. Even Kantner, who is nowhere near the player Horford is, will nonetheless probably take about the same number of shots.

The franchise will only go as far as Brown and Tatum take them, and the priority should be to carve out the necessary roles for them before anything else.

I fully expect Kemba to be the adult Kyrie never was, and adapt his style some to the team's needs. I thought it would be possible to start Brown, Tatum and Hayward, but we would have needed a 3 and D point guard taking 10-12 shots for that to work. Smart might have worked out. With Kemba, we will need to spread the minutes of the three wings out over the entire game, or there will not be enough shots.

We won't have Rozier, and we better not get Morris back, but that isn't enough to sort out the starters roles.

We'll see if Stevens has learned enough from last year to make this work. I find it annoying that Ainge looks like he hasn't learned anything.

Agree completely with bolded.   Brown and Tatum both must start.  Until one of Brown, Tatum or Hayward are traded for a Danny-level (excellent) return (big man one hopes). 

I do think we can be patient if solving wing logjam through trade.  But I'm also okay keeping Hayward off the bench for the rest of his C's contract.  The salary thing is not a big deal at all due to the injury. (I mean the normal not bringing such a high cost player off the bench...is out the window....injury plus Tatum and Brown = bench super 6th man role for Hayward (in my humble opinion that's the best way to use him for the good of the team).

If they are hoping to trade Hayward, having him start and featuring him on offense is the best way to raise his value. Keeping him on the bench brings his value down.

I don't think Hayward will be traded.  He is buddies with Kemba.  And other reasons. 

If solving wing logjam with a trade, it'll be one of Smart, Brown or Tatum headed out. 

If Hayward has to start for whatever reason, then I'd bring Tatum off the bench and do the following:

Walker, Smart, Edwards
Brown, Smart, Langford
Hayward, Tatum, Semi
G. Williams, Tatum, Semi
Kanter (or best defender big on team)

Benching Tatum for G Will would be crazy, and I love Grant.

As Nick says, start all 3 wings, and bench Hayward early. Plus, we need a good passer in the starting lineup to offset Horford's departure

[wdleehi]

Starters

Kemba
Brown
Tatum
Semi
Kanter


Finishers
Kemba 
Smart
Brown
Tatum
Hayward (30 plus minutes a game)


Still need a big man who can be trusted to defend at the end of game.

I think they need to start Hayward to begin the year. They need him to produce as well as possible so that he can increase his value before the deadline.

Starting or not starting, I don't see a difference in the minutes the top 5 guys get.   


I just see Hayward being that playmaker off the bench while allowing Kemba, Tatum and Brown lead the offense at the start of the game.   I keep thinking Semi as the starting PF as a low usage defender that can set up in the corners on offense.   (of course he needs to improve his corner three to actually be there)

[IDreamCeltics]

As of today, I'd identify three glaring holes in this rotation:

A lack of cutters and ball-movers - to create off-the-ball action and a dynamic offense

Thought this comment from Who on this point is great:
https://forum.celticsstrong.com/index.php?topic=100776.msg2702452#msg2702452


Lack of shooting

Boston lost an elite shooter in Irving, and two very good ones for their positions in Horford and Morris. Kemba has never been Irving's caliber except for a couple of seasons but it's plausible he'll be good enough if he can afford better shot-selection. Took a lot of shots last season and that might be the reason for his decline from the high 30s to the mid 30s that are his career average.

Kanter doesn't shoot the 3. Williams and Langford were mediocre 3pt shooters in college. Edwards shot 35% in high volume, which is promising, but likely not "good shooter right away in his rookie season" promising. Uncertain any of the rookies finds playing time even with the current roster anyway.

The team probably needs to acquire more long-range shooting and hope Smart/Brown/Tatum/Hayward improve on their last season.

Mediocre shooting would make the offensive issues mentioned above even worse.

Very weak defensive bigs


Kanter, Theis, Robert Williams, Grant Williams, Yabusele.

Hayward/Tatum. Ojeleye as another combo forward. 

I'm not sure there's a worse defensive big man rotation in the league. There isn't a single quality big man defender in the roster.

Surely Ainge will add a defensive big to this group? It'd be baffling if he didnt' and added someone like Cousins.

Our situation is unenviable to say the least.  With the current roster we would struggle to win 40 games next season.  It's entirely possible that we're tanking and no one realizes it yet.