Author Topic: How hard are double sign and trades?  (Read 496 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

How hard are double sign and trades?
« on: June 17, 2019, 07:20:54 PM »

Offline Humble G

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1372
  • Tommy Points: 981
 Are they realistic and what's the hoops to jump thru to make em work?

2 examples.

Obvious one: S/T kyrie for Dlo

Ex 2: Marcus Morris for Ricky Rubio......if jazz trade favors for Conley they may be interested in morris?

Re: How hard are double sign and trades?
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2019, 07:29:38 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • Global Moderator
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 38613
  • Tommy Points: 6248
Usually extremely difficult. I do not remember a single instance that it has happened. Surprisingly, for a double sign and trade, Kyrie and Russell could be fairly easy due to Brooklyn being way under the cap, but it is definitely an outlier. Normally those trades are next to impossible.

Re: How hard are double sign and trades?
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2019, 07:35:02 PM »

Offline Silky

  • NFT
  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2347
  • Tommy Points: 144
Usually extremely difficult. I do not remember a single instance that it has happened. Surprisingly, for a double sign and trade, Kyrie and Russell could be fairly easy due to Brooklyn being way under the cap, but it is definitely an outlier. Normally those trades are next to impossible.

I believe it happened as part of a big 4 team trade that sent Shaun Marion to Dallas and Hedu Turkolu to Toronto 10 or so years ago.


Re: How hard are double sign and trades?
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2019, 07:39:55 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • Global Moderator
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 38613
  • Tommy Points: 6248
Usually extremely difficult. I do not remember a single instance that it has happened. Surprisingly, for a double sign and trade, Kyrie and Russell could be fairly easy due to Brooklyn being way under the cap, but it is definitely an outlier. Normally those trades are next to impossible.

I believe it happened as part of a big 4 team trade that sent Shaun Marion to Dallas and Hedu Turkolu to Toronto 10 or so years ago.
Did it? I don't remember. But that was when it was way easier to make a trade like that. The new CBA really makes it tremendously difficult. It really removed a lot of the incentives for players and teams to do the trades, especially for highly paid players.

Re: How hard are double sign and trades?
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2019, 07:45:47 PM »

Offline Sketch5

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2867
  • Tommy Points: 247
Are they realistic and what's the hoops to jump thru to make em work?

2 examples.

Obvious one: S/T kyrie for Dlo

Ex 2: Marcus Morris for Ricky Rubio......if jazz trade favors for Conley they may be interested in morris?

Could we S&T Irving to the Nets, Nets S&T Russel to MEph, and Meph trades Conely to us?

Doubt Memph since they are drafting Morant, and it would hurt our Memph pic, but might be really the only way to get Conely with out giving up the farm.

I'm just going off the Irving meeting this week with the C's, which might be he'd like the extra money and years, but don't want to stay in Boston with his house up for sale and all.

Re: How hard are double sign and trades?
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2019, 07:51:15 PM »

Offline Jiri Welsch

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1760
  • Tommy Points: 189
I suggest giving this article a quick 5 minute read. John Karalis did a good job spelling out some important details re: sign and trades.

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2019/06/building-the-2019-20-boston-celtics-is-dangelo-russell-really-an-option-for-boston.html

One interesting tidbit (among many) for those thinking about trading for D-Lo...

Quote
According to Larry Coon’s CBA FAQ, a player signed in this circumstance only counts for half his new salary or whatever his previous salary was, whichever is greater. In Irving’s case, he’d only count as $20,099,189 (what he made last season) for Boston, which needs salaries to match because they are a current taxpayer. Russell would be making $27 million, so Boston would either have to add another player, like Guerschon Yabusele, to satisfy salary matching rules. While Boston might be willing to do this, Brooklyn is trying to clear room for a second max player. Yabusele’s $3.1 million would be an obstacle.

So now we’re not only asking Brooklyn to help a division rival, but now also take back an unwanted player that could screw up their plans.

Re: How hard are double sign and trades?
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2019, 08:08:10 PM »

Offline bellerephon

  • Tacko Fall
  • Posts: 623
  • Tommy Points: 46
Without getting into the details it is enough to know that the NBA changed the rules to make sign and trades significantly less attractive to both teams and players. As a result sign and trades that were once common have become very rare, the more unusual sort suggested here are essentially unheard of now.

Re: How hard are double sign and trades?
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2019, 06:47:52 AM »

Offline Humble G

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1372
  • Tommy Points: 981
I suggest giving this article a quick 5 minute read. John Karalis did a good job spelling out some important details re: sign and trades.

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2019/06/building-the-2019-20-boston-celtics-is-dangelo-russell-really-an-option-for-boston.html

One interesting tidbit (among many) for those thinking about trading for D-Lo...

Quote
According to Larry Coon’s CBA FAQ, a player signed in this circumstance only counts for half his new salary or whatever his previous salary was, whichever is greater. In Irving’s case, he’d only count as $20,099,189 (what he made last season) for Boston, which needs salaries to match because they are a current taxpayer. Russell would be making $27 million, so Boston would either have to add another player, like Guerschon Yabusele, to satisfy salary matching rules. While Boston might be willing to do this, Brooklyn is trying to clear room for a second max player. Yabusele’s $3.1 million would be an obstacle.

So now we’re not only asking Brooklyn to help a division rival, but now also take back an unwanted player that could screw up their plans.
As fas as sending out Yabu could Boston get a 3rd team involved? A team that would be interested in a late first.... So essentially give BKN a first round/kyrie and a 3rd team gets yabu and a first. 2firsts and yabu for Dlo

Re: How hard are double sign and trades?
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2019, 09:00:20 AM »

Offline Silky

  • NFT
  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2347
  • Tommy Points: 144
Usually extremely difficult. I do not remember a single instance that it has happened. Surprisingly, for a double sign and trade, Kyrie and Russell could be fairly easy due to Brooklyn being way under the cap, but it is definitely an outlier. Normally those trades are next to impossible.

I believe it happened as part of a big 4 team trade that sent Shaun Marion to Dallas and Hedu Turkolu to Toronto 10 or so years ago.
Did it? I don't remember. But that was when it was way easier to make a trade like that. The new CBA really makes it tremendously difficult. It really removed a lot of the incentives for players and teams to do the trades, especially for highly paid players.

yeah, the whole BYC thing makes it worse as well.

Re: How hard are double sign and trades?
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2019, 09:01:53 AM »

Offline Silky

  • NFT
  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2347
  • Tommy Points: 144
why do people want Russell?

He is an 80% Kyrie Irving with equal defense. If you want a pg from the Nets, then get Dinwiddie. Far better fit.

Re: How hard are double sign and trades?
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2019, 09:04:38 AM »

Online gouki88

  • Global Moderator
  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11128
  • Tommy Points: 549
why do people want Russell?

He is an 80% Kyrie Irving with equal defense. If you want a pg from the Nets, then get Dinwiddie. Far better fit.
Agree, but also think if BKN is getting Kyrie they'd rather keep him too sadly
2019 CS Historical Draft Champions: Philadelphia 76ers
PG: Jason Kidd / Tiny Archibald / Fat Lever
SG: Paul Pierce / Sidney Moncrief
SF: Larry Bird / Mark Aguirre
PF: Karl Malone / Jerry Lucas / Andrei Kirilenko
C: Patrick Ewing / Bob Lanier

Re: How hard are double sign and trades?
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2019, 09:12:49 AM »

Offline JBcat

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3284
  • Tommy Points: 489
Usually extremely difficult. I do not remember a single instance that it has happened. Surprisingly, for a double sign and trade, Kyrie and Russell could be fairly easy due to Brooklyn being way under the cap, but it is definitely an outlier. Normally those trades are next to impossible.

I believe it happened as part of a big 4 team trade that sent Shaun Marion to Dallas and Hedu Turkolu to Toronto 10 or so years ago.
Did it? I don't remember. But that was when it was way easier to make a trade like that. The new CBA really makes it tremendously difficult. It really removed a lot of the incentives for players and teams to do the trades, especially for highly paid players.

If this proves too difficult I’d still try to shoot for the approx 20 mi trade exception we could get that was discussed in another thread.  It just opens more possibilities using that and our MLE. 

One idea I had was using it on Dragic that some weren’t crazy about, but there are plenty of options.  We could use the TE on a big and the MLE on a PG or vice versa.

Re: How hard are double sign and trades?
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2019, 09:27:54 AM »

Offline Humble G

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1372
  • Tommy Points: 981
why do people want Russell?

He is an 80% Kyrie Irving with equal defense. If you want a pg from the Nets, then get Dinwiddie. Far better fit.
Agree, but also think if BKN is getting Kyrie they'd rather keep him too sadly

Russell is only 23 while Dinwiddie is 26 so Dlo fits Jay's time-line better. Dlo is a better shooter, scorer and passer than Dinwiddie too.... Plus Dlo was an All Star.

Dlo is much younger than kyrie and has a better team mentality. I think he was humbled by his rough start in NBA and will continue to grow.

So in my opinion Dlo would be a really great fit with the Jay's

Re: How hard are double sign and trades?
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2019, 09:29:25 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 42342
  • Tommy Points: 2715
  • You ain't the boss of the freakin' bedclothes.
It's impossible. Don't even speculate.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner