Author Topic: Our draft picks are now super important  (Read 3902 times)

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Re: Our draft picks are now super important
« Reply #105 on: June 16, 2019, 11:47:16 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Kyrie 21.3m + Horford 30.1m = 51.3m.

Celts will have enough cap room for D-Lo if that 51.3m is off the payroll.
That's not how this works. 

But yeah, if we let Rozier and Morris walk, Kyrie leaves and Horford leaves, we should have a shade under 30 mil in cap space.

Yes, I know about the cap holds.

But right now the Celts are not close to becoming a contender.

Horford is not a priority.

Ainge can package 3 picks for 1, to make more cap room.

Celts don't need Morris anymore.

D-Lo is a better option than Rozier.

It can be done.

Yes he is....but he is not the right pg for tatum and brown.

Russell is a lesser version of irving.
Same weaknesses and lesser strengths.



And irving didnt work.
A big part of the Irving problem was personality
There was no Irving problem.  There was a talent problem.  Russell wouldn't change that.  We aren't contending either way.  But we'd be better with Russell than without Russell.
There were absolutely chemistry issues that Irving played a large part in. Multiple players from the team have come out and pretty explicitly stated that the team didn't play well together at all.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Our draft picks are now super important
« Reply #106 on: June 16, 2019, 11:54:44 AM »

Offline ederson

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Kyrie 21.3m + Horford 30.1m = 51.3m.

Celts will have enough cap room for D-Lo if that 51.3m is off the payroll.
That's not how this works. 

But yeah, if we let Rozier and Morris walk, Kyrie leaves and Horford leaves, we should have a shade under 30 mil in cap space.

Yes, I know about the cap holds.

But right now the Celts are not close to becoming a contender.

Horford is not a priority.

Ainge can package 3 picks for 1, to make more cap room.

Celts don't need Morris anymore.

D-Lo is a better option than Rozier.

It can be done.

Yes he is....but he is not the right pg for tatum and brown.

Russell is a lesser version of irving.
Same weaknesses and lesser strengths.



And irving didnt work.
A big part of the Irving problem was personality
There was no Irving problem.  There was a talent problem.  Russell wouldn't change that.  We aren't contending either way.  But we'd be better with Russell than without Russell.

So the 2018 play off team was more talented than the 2018-19 team which was the 2018 playoff team+KI+GH !??!?!?!?


Re: Our draft picks are now super important
« Reply #107 on: June 16, 2019, 11:57:04 AM »

Offline NKY fan

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Whatever we do please donít do repeat Zizic and Yabu
Sure let it up to Danny draft a RJ hunter then lol

Re: Our draft picks are now super important
« Reply #108 on: June 16, 2019, 11:57:29 AM »

Offline Sketch5

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Kyrie 21.3m + Horford 30.1m = 51.3m.

Celts will have enough cap room for D-Lo if that 51.3m is off the payroll.
That's not how this works. 

But yeah, if we let Rozier and Morris walk, Kyrie leaves and Horford leaves, we should have a shade under 30 mil in cap space.

Yes, I know about the cap holds.

But right now the Celts are not close to becoming a contender.

Horford is not a priority.

Ainge can package 3 picks for 1, to make more cap room.

Celts don't need Morris anymore.

D-Lo is a better option than Rozier.

It can be done.

Yes he is....but he is not the right pg for tatum and brown.

Russell is a lesser version of irving.
Same weaknesses and lesser strengths.



And irving didnt work.
A big part of the Irving problem was personality
There was no Irving problem.  There was a talent problem.  Russell wouldn't change that.  We aren't contending either way.  But we'd be better with Russell than without Russell.
There were absolutely chemistry issues that Irving played a large part in. Multiple players from the team have come out and pretty explicitly stated that the team didn't play well together at all.

Yeah our team this year had loads of talent. I can't believe people didn't notice how the team played this year with and with out Irving. Hayward was better when he wasn't playing with Irving. Plus when Irving had a big game no one cared, but when  Hayward did they rushed him while he was getting interviewed. It shows the young guys liked him more and the minutes thing wasn't as big of a deal as some made it out to be.

You look at Toronto, yeah they got luck with GSW injuries, but that was a TEAM. Not a superstar and his followers, but a legit team.

Morris was an other problem. I get leaders will tend to chew you out from time to time to get you to play at the high level. But guys like Morris who didn't really back it up can split a team.

I mean IT said things in the media, but he also brought it to the floor and layed it all out. I wished he never got injured now, he may not have been the better player, but he was better for the team.

Re: Our draft picks are now super important
« Reply #109 on: June 16, 2019, 12:02:29 PM »

Offline iadera

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I think we just suck, one way or another. Missed all the trains.

Re: Our draft picks are now super important
« Reply #110 on: June 16, 2019, 12:14:22 PM »

Offline Scintan

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Kyrie 21.3m + Horford 30.1m = 51.3m.

Celts will have enough cap room for D-Lo if that 51.3m is off the payroll.
Total salary after Kyrie and Horford walk would be $71.8 million. Then you have cap holds for the three draft picks and an empty roster slot. That's slightly over $8 million. So let's call salary and holds total $80 million. You would then need to renounce Rozier, Theis, Wanamaker and Morris to clear open $29 million in cap space.

Not sure which free agent you could sign but I heard Jrue Holiday wasn't keen on staying in New Orleans without Davis and his salary would fit into our cap, so maybe try to convince Griffin to salary dump Holiday to us.

And Holiday was just a suggestion, perhaps Danny tries to trade for a big under the same circumstances by absorbing salary via trade into the cap space.

Ya but then you have the issue of subtracting Horford and adding a 29 year old Holiday is really just a lateral move. I mean pretty much anybody we could reasonably sign would be, unless you are playing the restricted free agent game.
Oh I am not advocating for such things to happen. My preference is to keep Horford long term. Try to convince Al to opt out and sign a new 4 year, $73 million deal that starts at $20 million and decreases by 8% a year for the next three years.

Why would you want Horford on a rebuilding team?

Horford is better off chasing a ring than baby sitting guys like Tatum and Brown.

The Celts are not contenders anymore.
Because he is an excellent player, one of the best role models around for young players, a great locker room presence, and because his total skillset is one of the most sought after in the league. Without Horford, our front line is rubbish.

Replacing Horford with Holiday while also having to completely move on from Morris, Rozier, Theis and Wanamaker is a major step backwards, IMO. If you are doing that, may as well go full blow up mode and strip the team down to Brown Tatum Smart and just add a bunch of rookies, suck for a few years and stock the team with high draft picks.

I don't know about replacing Horford with Holiday, but one thing's for sure, if the Celts are not contenders, might as well blow it up.

Staying a middle of the pack team is worse than being a lottery team.

Celts are better off with Brown, Tatum, Smart, and a bunch of rookies.

The championship window has closed for the Celts.

No AD and no Kyrie means the Celts are done.

Time to rebuild again.

pathetic post.  stop your whining.

It's not whining, it's reality.

You can check the odds of teams winning the championship next season.

Celts are not even in the top 5.

The Celtics have a lot of "what if" stuff for next year, which is keeping the odds low.  And a lot of those "what if" questions (i.e. Hayward rebounding back to something like his old self) won't really be answered until sometime during next season.

Best case scenario is Hayward returns to All-Star form and the Celts can either keep him or trade him at the trade deadline where he will be very valuable.

The "what if" stuff doesn't matter anymore because Ainge's master plan has backfired.

It was supposed to be 4 star players, AD, Kyrie, Horford, and Hayward.
That was Ainge's goal.

Right now the Celts will not come close to reaching even the east finals even if Hayward returns to All-Star form.

Horford, Hayward, Brown, and Tatum, at best, will just be a 6th or 7th seed.

So there's really no point in prolonging the agony.

Right now the Celts have 3 1st rounders and the 2020 top 6 Memphis pick.

It's better if the Celts start rebuilding now when the Celts still have lots of options.

I don't necessarily agree with the notion that Ainge's master plan has backfired.  I do agree with the obvious, which is that AD is not coming to Boston, and KI appears to be gone.

That still leaves a pair of All-Stars (if Hayward gets back to 100% this year), a pair of young potential guys, a lock down defender, a bunch of picks, and an Eastern conference that could end up being mighty weak if Leonard and Butler head west.

So, I think it's premature for people to be talking about rebuilding.  For that matter, rebuilding is obviously not what needs to be done.  How does one "rebuild" when 2 of your 3 best trade assets are currently less than 23 years old?

Ainge does need to do a better job with his drafting, though, whether that involves more trading to get the guys he wants, or it involves just choosing the right player beyond the early part of round one.  I'm not saying that's easy, and I'm not saying that Ainge is doing a bad job.  I'm just saying that, if they're going to get anywhere, they can't be drafting the James Youngs of the world.


When people are free to do as they please, they usually imitate each other.

Re: Our draft picks are now super important
« Reply #111 on: June 16, 2019, 12:43:04 PM »

Online hwangjini_1

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Kyrie 21.3m + Horford 30.1m = 51.3m.

Celts will have enough cap room for D-Lo if that 51.3m is off the payroll.
Total salary after Kyrie and Horford walk would be $71.8 million. Then you have cap holds for the three draft picks and an empty roster slot. That's slightly over $8 million. So let's call salary and holds total $80 million. You would then need to renounce Rozier, Theis, Wanamaker and Morris to clear open $29 million in cap space.

Not sure which free agent you could sign but I heard Jrue Holiday wasn't keen on staying in New Orleans without Davis and his salary would fit into our cap, so maybe try to convince Griffin to salary dump Holiday to us.

And Holiday was just a suggestion, perhaps Danny tries to trade for a big under the same circumstances by absorbing salary via trade into the cap space.

Ya but then you have the issue of subtracting Horford and adding a 29 year old Holiday is really just a lateral move. I mean pretty much anybody we could reasonably sign would be, unless you are playing the restricted free agent game.
Oh I am not advocating for such things to happen. My preference is to keep Horford long term. Try to convince Al to opt out and sign a new 4 year, $73 million deal that starts at $20 million and decreases by 8% a year for the next three years.

Why would you want Horford on a rebuilding team?

Horford is better off chasing a ring than baby sitting guys like Tatum and Brown.

The Celts are not contenders anymore.
Because he is an excellent player, one of the best role models around for young players, a great locker room presence, and because his total skillset is one of the most sought after in the league. Without Horford, our front line is rubbish.

Replacing Horford with Holiday while also having to completely move on from Morris, Rozier, Theis and Wanamaker is a major step backwards, IMO. If you are doing that, may as well go full blow up mode and strip the team down to Brown Tatum Smart and just add a bunch of rookies, suck for a few years and stock the team with high draft picks.

I don't know about replacing Horford with Holiday, but one thing's for sure, if the Celts are not contenders, might as well blow it up.

Staying a middle of the pack team is worse than being a lottery team.

Celts are better off with Brown, Tatum, Smart, and a bunch of rookies.

The championship window has closed for the Celts.

No AD and no Kyrie means the Celts are done.

Time to rebuild again.

pathetic post.  stop your whining.

It's not whining, it's reality.

You can check the odds of teams winning the championship next season.

Celts are not even in the top 5.
no. it's your opinion. please keep those two distinct from one another since they clearly not the same thing.
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy ó not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
- Vandana Shiva

Re: Our draft picks are now super important
« Reply #112 on: June 16, 2019, 12:53:49 PM »

Offline Sketch5

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Kyrie 21.3m + Horford 30.1m = 51.3m.

Celts will have enough cap room for D-Lo if that 51.3m is off the payroll.
Total salary after Kyrie and Horford walk would be $71.8 million. Then you have cap holds for the three draft picks and an empty roster slot. That's slightly over $8 million. So let's call salary and holds total $80 million. You would then need to renounce Rozier, Theis, Wanamaker and Morris to clear open $29 million in cap space.

Not sure which free agent you could sign but I heard Jrue Holiday wasn't keen on staying in New Orleans without Davis and his salary would fit into our cap, so maybe try to convince Griffin to salary dump Holiday to us.

And Holiday was just a suggestion, perhaps Danny tries to trade for a big under the same circumstances by absorbing salary via trade into the cap space.

Ya but then you have the issue of subtracting Horford and adding a 29 year old Holiday is really just a lateral move. I mean pretty much anybody we could reasonably sign would be, unless you are playing the restricted free agent game.
Oh I am not advocating for such things to happen. My preference is to keep Horford long term. Try to convince Al to opt out and sign a new 4 year, $73 million deal that starts at $20 million and decreases by 8% a year for the next three years.

Why would you want Horford on a rebuilding team?

Horford is better off chasing a ring than baby sitting guys like Tatum and Brown.

The Celts are not contenders anymore.
Because he is an excellent player, one of the best role models around for young players, a great locker room presence, and because his total skillset is one of the most sought after in the league. Without Horford, our front line is rubbish.

Replacing Horford with Holiday while also having to completely move on from Morris, Rozier, Theis and Wanamaker is a major step backwards, IMO. If you are doing that, may as well go full blow up mode and strip the team down to Brown Tatum Smart and just add a bunch of rookies, suck for a few years and stock the team with high draft picks.

I don't know about replacing Horford with Holiday, but one thing's for sure, if the Celts are not contenders, might as well blow it up.

Staying a middle of the pack team is worse than being a lottery team.

Celts are better off with Brown, Tatum, Smart, and a bunch of rookies.

The championship window has closed for the Celts.

No AD and no Kyrie means the Celts are done.

Time to rebuild again.

pathetic post.  stop your whining.

It's not whining, it's reality.

You can check the odds of teams winning the championship next season.

Celts are not even in the top 5.

As a great man with the fastest ship in the Galaxy once said. "Never tell me the odds"

Look how that turn out. :D

Re: Our draft picks are now super important
« Reply #113 on: June 16, 2019, 03:24:51 PM »

Offline RodyTur10

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Kyrie 21.3m + Horford 30.1m = 51.3m.

Celts will have enough cap room for D-Lo if that 51.3m is off the payroll.
Total salary after Kyrie and Horford walk would be $71.8 million. Then you have cap holds for the three draft picks and an empty roster slot. That's slightly over $8 million. So let's call salary and holds total $80 million. You would then need to renounce Rozier, Theis, Wanamaker and Morris to clear open $29 million in cap space.

Not sure which free agent you could sign but I heard Jrue Holiday wasn't keen on staying in New Orleans without Davis and his salary would fit into our cap, so maybe try to convince Griffin to salary dump Holiday to us.

And Holiday was just a suggestion, perhaps Danny tries to trade for a big under the same circumstances by absorbing salary via trade into the cap space.

Ya but then you have the issue of subtracting Horford and adding a 29 year old Holiday is really just a lateral move. I mean pretty much anybody we could reasonably sign would be, unless you are playing the restricted free agent game.
Oh I am not advocating for such things to happen. My preference is to keep Horford long term. Try to convince Al to opt out and sign a new 4 year, $73 million deal that starts at $20 million and decreases by 8% a year for the next three years.

Why would you want Horford on a rebuilding team?

Horford is better off chasing a ring than baby sitting guys like Tatum and Brown.

The Celts are not contenders anymore.
Because he is an excellent player, one of the best role models around for young players, a great locker room presence, and because his total skillset is one of the most sought after in the league. Without Horford, our front line is rubbish.

Replacing Horford with Holiday while also having to completely move on from Morris, Rozier, Theis and Wanamaker is a major step backwards, IMO. If you are doing that, may as well go full blow up mode and strip the team down to Brown Tatum Smart and just add a bunch of rookies, suck for a few years and stock the team with high draft picks.

I don't know about replacing Horford with Holiday, but one thing's for sure, if the Celts are not contenders, might as well blow it up.

Staying a middle of the pack team is worse than being a lottery team.

Celts are better off with Brown, Tatum, Smart, and a bunch of rookies.

The championship window has closed for the Celts.

No AD and no Kyrie means the Celts are done.

Time to rebuild again.

pathetic post.  stop your whining.

It's not whining, it's reality.

You can check the odds of teams winning the championship next season.

Celts are not even in the top 5.
no. it's your opinion. please keep those two distinct from one another since they clearly not the same thing.

Fierce1 is right, there's no reasonable short term path to a championship anymore. Losing Irving and missing out on Davis is MAJOR. This isn't a small drawback. Our championship dreams have been thrown in the gutter.

  • Some draft picks not working out (examples: Young, Hunter, Mickey, Yabusele etc.). We could handle that.
  • Letting some decent rotation players walk (examples: Turner, Olynyk, Sullinger). We could handle that as well.
  • Durant choosing Golden State over us (summer 2016). Big disappointment. But we still had a lot of assets.
  • Hayward getting injured (October 17th, 2017). Here it felt things could go really wrong (not just for Gordon).
  • Chemistry issues between old and young. It was clear we'd waited too long, had to strike fast to fix this.
  • Rose rule. The path that was lingering for years (Ainge trading for Davis) now unexpectedly blocked.
  • Front office ignoring to fix our roster problems. Clearly saving assets for Davis was our last hope.
  • Irving possibly wanting to leave. Risk of trading big assets became even greater.
  • Davis' agent Rich Paul again emphasizing no intend to re-sign in Boston. Even less eagerness for us to take the risk.
  • Lakers trading for Davis, because Boston refused to make Tatum available. End of championship aspirations.

I didn't mention the good things that have happened in this 6-year rebuilding period, but most of them don't matter anymore.

Like the trades for and emergences of Crowder and Thomas (both have been traded for Irving, who leaves us with nothing).
Signing Horford in free agency (last year of his contract, won't have much value left neither as a player nor as an asset)
Making a genius and gutsy trade of the #1 pick (obtained Kings' pick dropped disappointingly to #14)

What is left are:

Jayson Tatum (great #3 selection in '17 with a Brooklyn pick from the Garnett/Pierce trade)
Jaylen Brown (good #3 selection in '16 with a Brooklyn pick from the Garnett/Pierce trade).
Marcus Smart (drafted #6 in 2014 with Celtics pick, only 'tank' year).

Gordon Hayward (free agent signing in 2017, hoping to get back at his old level, right now not an asset)
Al Horford (can opt out or activate player option)
Aron Baynes (one year contract, with a no-trade-promise)

Robert Williams (drafted #27 in 2018, raw project)
Semi Ojeleye (cheap role player drafted in the second round in 2017)
Guerschon Yabusele (drafted #16 in 2016, part of the Rondo-to-Dallas-trade, looks like a bust)
Rights to match for Terry Rozier (also a remainder of the infamous Nets trade)

Memphis pick (prot 1-6 in 2020, unprotected 2021, result of Jeff Green trade to Memphis)
#14 pick (from the trade down in 2017 with Philadelphia)
#20 pick (Ainge traded two second-round picks for this Clippers pick in 2016)
#22 pick and all other Boston picks

A lot depends on our draft selections on Thursday and how we develop those rookies and other young players on the roster like Ojeleye and Williams. Most important is that Brown and Tatum will become All Stars, since the rest of the roster is quite insignificant. Otherwise that road to the top might get a lot longer than it already looks to be.
George Carlin ó 'That's why they call it the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.'

 

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