Poll

Are you okay with us not contending next year?

Yes
25 (53.2%)
No
22 (46.8%)

Total Members Voted: 47

Author Topic: Are you okay with us not contending next year?  (Read 2676 times)

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Re: Are you okay with us not contending next year?
« Reply #60 on: June 14, 2019, 07:25:33 PM »

Online PhoSita

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I think Wyc and DA are trying too hard to microwave a championship team. If what we want is what the Warriors or Spurs had, then we have to draft and groom a set of core players and establish a style of play through them.

Adding a star to a young team, with its young pieces still developing, is a recipe for Disaster. I'd love to give the young bucks a good run... Steph, Klay, Duncan, Tony Parker, Manu all drafted.

Sometimes it feels like we're building in reverse cuz as soon as a player starts to flourish we try to flip them



You're absolutely right, and I think it's a matter of building philosophy.



I think there are several ways to build a good team, and you can see examples of each method throughout the league.



Some teams prioritize the draft (see: Sixers), other teams want to make big moves in free agency (see: Lakers), others want to make trades (see: Celtics).


Most full rebuilds require a mix of those three things,  but you can see that every GM has a different philosophy and values different tools more than others.


Danny's strategy since he started as a GM, it seems, has been to continually build up a pile of assets until he can make a move for a major piece.  It's a strategy that has worked well for him, but it does mean that the players on the roster turn over a lot as he's exchanging one set of assets for a new one. 

It also tends to result in what you're talking about -- this feeling that we're building in reverse, trying to make the core of a good team happen all at once and then figure out the supporting foundation afterward.



Honestly I agree with you -- I would like to see the team try to build a solid foundation, develop a distinct identity, and then look for ways to upgrade the core without compromising the foundation.

Problem is I just dont' think that's the way Ainge and Wyc prefer to build the team.  They want to put together the best collection of talent at the top and then figure the rest out later. 

You can't exactly blame them since it worked once before. And if you just look at the team's record since Danny traded Pierce and Garnett, they've averaged 45 wins per year and only been in the lottery once.  Hard to argue with those results even if the Celts haven't been a genuine contender since 2011.

But it is frustrating because it means we have this sense nearly every summer that the whole team could look completely different next year.  Even during the season we have a feeling that the players on the team now might be gone in a few months because Danny's always looking for the next big move he could make to put the team in a better position. 

That's exciting, but at the same time it's also frustrating because we never really see what the team might look like if they just let the same core group gain experience and confidence playing together.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Are you okay with us not contending next year?
« Reply #61 on: June 14, 2019, 08:51:20 PM »

Offline Chris22

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We have two choices.

Get Davis and Irving and go for it next year.

Or keep our assets until Hayward and Horford are off the books and sign a couple of big free agents then.

Re: Are you okay with us not contending next year?
« Reply #62 on: June 14, 2019, 08:52:17 PM »

Online PhoSita

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We have two choices.

Get Davis and Irving and go for it next year.

Or keep our assets until Hayward and Horford are off the books and sign a couple of big free agents then.


Who are the big free agents two years from now?


Another thing you have to consider: will the Celts even have cap space? They will need to resign Jayson Tatum and they will have ostensibly already signed Jaylen Brown to a new deal.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Are you okay with us not contending next year?
« Reply #63 on: June 14, 2019, 08:58:05 PM »

Online RodyTur10

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We have two choices.

Get Davis and Irving and go for it next year.

Or keep our assets until Hayward and Horford are off the books and sign a couple of big free agents then.

I agree, TP.

Beal, Antetokounmpo or Adams are examples.

With only Brown, Smart and Tatum (cap hold) as 'big' contracts on the books there's probably enough cap space for a max free agent in 2021.
George Carlin — 'That's why they call it the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.'

Re: Are you okay with us not contending next year?
« Reply #64 on: June 14, 2019, 09:47:46 PM »

Online PhoSita

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We have two choices.

Get Davis and Irving and go for it next year.

Or keep our assets until Hayward and Horford are off the books and sign a couple of big free agents then.

I agree, TP.

Beal, Antetokounmpo or Adams are examples.

With only Brown, Smart and Tatum (cap hold) as 'big' contracts on the books there's probably enough cap space for a max free agent in 2021.


Beal in two years isn't gonna make you a contender. I don't think it's realistic to expect giannis to be a real option. Adams is a nice player but isn't going to change your fortunes either.

The free agency crop doesn't really get exciting until 2023 unless you're looking for guys who can make an already really good team great.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Are you okay with us not contending next year?
« Reply #65 on: June 14, 2019, 10:11:09 PM »

Offline shut_the_gate

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This should answer if Celtics fan's want Kyrie back, his last post on Instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BynrRmCHaAX/

With this quote from Mother Teresa:

People are often unreasonable, irrational, and self-centered. Forgive them anyway. If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives. Be kind anyway. If you are successful, you will win some unfaithful friends and some genuine enemies. Succeed anyway. If you are honest and sincere people may deceive you. Be honest and sincere anyway. What you spend years creating, others could destroy overnight. Create anyway. If you find serenity and happiness, some may be jealous. Be happy anyway. The good you do today, will often be forgotten. Do good anyway. Give the best you have, and it will never be enough. Give your best anyway. In the final analysis, it is between you and God. It was never between you and them anyway.'

Hypocrisy thy name is Kyrie, he should have replaced the word people with Kyrie...this man truely believes his own bull****. Ainge and Wyc will always want him back because they are businessmen first and foremost but the Celtics should be above just winning no matter who the individual is, look at the championships the Celtics have won and the way in which it was done, with team mentality one which puts the group above the singular...all of which Irving doesn't seem to understand instead acts like a petulant child.

Kendrick Perkins can't put it any better here https://youtu.be/I7ydqnrpXLw.

The only shame is that we could have picked up SGA, Porter Jr or Huerter with that Brooklyn pick, nor Hayward would have had that devastating injury either, lest we forget.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 10:17:06 PM by shut_the_gate »

Re: Are you okay with us not contending next year?
« Reply #66 on: June 14, 2019, 10:33:45 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Ok with it or not, we aren't contending next year.  I don't see a feasible path to us contending in the next 5 years.  Should be in the mix for a late seed.


Elite defense and a decent offense is a formula for a middle seed (a la pacers this year) if combined with depth and team effort.

I expect all of those things from a brad Stevens team that doesnt have primadona distractions.


Regardless, they wouldn't be a contender. Not unless Tatum AND brown make major leaps AND Danny finds some Pascal siakam type gems in the draft.
Lotto is in play next season.  On paper, this team is worse than the Suns.



Classic LarBrd33 comment.
Find me a non-homer that wouldn't take booker and ayton over tatum and brown.

Re: Are you okay with us not contending next year?
« Reply #67 on: June 14, 2019, 10:58:01 PM »

Online jpotter33

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Ok with it or not, we aren't contending next year.  I don't see a feasible path to us contending in the next 5 years.  Should be in the mix for a late seed.


Elite defense and a decent offense is a formula for a middle seed (a la pacers this year) if combined with depth and team effort.

I expect all of those things from a brad Stevens team that doesnt have primadona distractions.


Regardless, they wouldn't be a contender. Not unless Tatum AND brown make major leaps AND Danny finds some Pascal siakam type gems in the draft.
Lotto is in play next season.  On paper, this team is worse than the Suns.



Classic LarBrd33 comment.
Find me a non-homer that wouldn't take booker and ayton over tatum and brown.

First, I think PLENTY of people would take Tatum and Brown over them, as perimeter forward play wins in today's NBA.

Second, but even granting your argument, that still doesn't mean they are "worse than the Suns" on paper, as last I checked there are more than two players. And Boston's supporting cast is >> than the Suns' supporting cast.

That is exceedingly poor logic, Lar.
Whatever crushes individuality is despotism, by whatever name it may be called and whether it professes to be enforcing the will of God or the injunctions of men.

Re: Are you okay with us not contending next year?
« Reply #68 on: June 14, 2019, 11:17:11 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Ok with it or not, we aren't contending next year.  I don't see a feasible path to us contending in the next 5 years.  Should be in the mix for a late seed.


Elite defense and a decent offense is a formula for a middle seed (a la pacers this year) if combined with depth and team effort.

I expect all of those things from a brad Stevens team that doesnt have primadona distractions.


Regardless, they wouldn't be a contender. Not unless Tatum AND brown make major leaps AND Danny finds some Pascal siakam type gems in the draft.
Lotto is in play next season.  On paper, this team is worse than the Suns.



Classic LarBrd33 comment.
Find me a non-homer that wouldn't take booker and ayton over tatum and brown.

First, I think PLENTY of people would take Tatum and Brown over them, as perimeter forward play wins in today's NBA.

Second, but even granting your argument, that still doesn't mean they are "worse than the Suns" on paper, as last I checked there are more than two players. And Boston's supporting cast is >> than the Suns' supporting cast.

That is exceedingly poor logic, Lar.
honestly, kyrie should consider signing with the suns.  It’s a better supporting cast and when he leads them to 50+ wins they will celebrate him ... as opposed to in Boston where he carried this lesser roster to 49 wins and they acted like he was a cancer.

Re: Are you okay with us not contending next year?
« Reply #69 on: June 15, 2019, 12:06:09 AM »

Online PhoSita

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Ok with it or not, we aren't contending next year.  I don't see a feasible path to us contending in the next 5 years.  Should be in the mix for a late seed.


Elite defense and a decent offense is a formula for a middle seed (a la pacers this year) if combined with depth and team effort.

I expect all of those things from a brad Stevens team that doesnt have primadona distractions.


Regardless, they wouldn't be a contender. Not unless Tatum AND brown make major leaps AND Danny finds some Pascal siakam type gems in the draft.
Lotto is in play next season.  On paper, this team is worse than the Suns.



Classic LarBrd33 comment.
Find me a non-homer that wouldn't take booker and ayton over tatum and brown.

First, I think PLENTY of people would take Tatum and Brown over them, as perimeter forward play wins in today's NBA.

Second, but even granting your argument, that still doesn't mean they are "worse than the Suns" on paper, as last I checked there are more than two players. And Boston's supporting cast is >> than the Suns' supporting cast.

That is exceedingly poor logic, Lar.


Dude why do you take the bait?
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Are you okay with us not contending next year?
« Reply #70 on: June 15, 2019, 12:19:35 AM »

Offline Chris22

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We have two choices.

Get Davis and Irving and go for it next year.

Or keep our assets until Hayward and Horford are off the books and sign a couple of big free agents then.

I agree, TP.

Beal, Antetokounmpo or Adams are examples.

With only Brown, Smart and Tatum (cap hold) as 'big' contracts on the books there's probably enough cap space for a max free agent in 2021.

Exactly. Plus, we would have our three first round picks this year and the two next year.

All we need to do is sign or trade for one of the half dozen guys who could bring us a championship.

Re: Are you okay with us not contending next year?
« Reply #71 on: June 15, 2019, 07:53:54 AM »

Offline mobilija

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Ok with it or not, we aren't contending next year.  I don't see a feasible path to us contending in the next 5 years.  Should be in the mix for a late seed.


Elite defense and a decent offense is a formula for a middle seed (a la pacers this year) if combined with depth and team effort.

I expect all of those things from a brad Stevens team that doesnt have primadona distractions.


Regardless, they wouldn't be a contender. Not unless Tatum AND brown make major leaps AND Danny finds some Pascal siakam type gems in the draft.
Lotto is in play next season.  On paper, this team is worse than the Suns.



Classic LarBrd33 comment.
Find me a non-homer that wouldn't take booker and ayton over tatum and brown.

First, I think PLENTY of people would take Tatum and Brown over them, as perimeter forward play wins in today's NBA.

Second, but even granting your argument, that still doesn't mean they are "worse than the Suns" on paper, as last I checked there are more than two players. And Boston's supporting cast is >> than the Suns' supporting cast.

That is exceedingly poor logic, Lar.
honestly, kyrie should consider signing with the suns.  It’s a better supporting cast and when he leads them to 50+ wins they will celebrate him ... as opposed to in Boston where he carried this lesser roster to 49 wins and they acted like he was a cancer.

Right?!? Once Kyrie could get away from passive Al Horford and offensively challenged Smart, he would be so much better off playing with an aggressive Josh Jackson and scoring Machine Jimmer Fredette.

....Imagine the possibilities...

Re: Are you okay with us not contending next year?
« Reply #72 on: June 15, 2019, 08:00:13 AM »

Offline petbrick

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Quote
PG: Marcus Smart, Brad Wanamaker (or Terry Rozier), #51 Chris Clemons
SG: Jaylen Brown, #22 Dylan Windler, PJ Dozier
SF: Jayson Tatum, Gordon Hayward, Semi Ojeleye
PF: Al Horford, Daniel Theis (or Guerschon Yabusele), #14 Bol Bol
C: Aron Baynes, Robert Williams III, #20 Daniel Gafford
.

Don't think I want Bol Bol on the team, would rather have someone more durable.  We can't afford to take a novelty guy.

Especially not when we've already got one that we're paying 32.7 million for 2019-20

Re: Are you okay with us not contending next year?
« Reply #73 on: June 15, 2019, 08:00:34 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Ok with it or not, we aren't contending next year.  I don't see a feasible path to us contending in the next 5 years.  Should be in the mix for a late seed.


Elite defense and a decent offense is a formula for a middle seed (a la pacers this year) if combined with depth and team effort.

I expect all of those things from a brad Stevens team that doesnt have primadona distractions.


Regardless, they wouldn't be a contender. Not unless Tatum AND brown make major leaps AND Danny finds some Pascal siakam type gems in the draft.
Lotto is in play next season.  On paper, this team is worse than the Suns.



Classic LarBrd33 comment.
Find me a non-homer that wouldn't take booker and ayton over tatum and brown.

First, I think PLENTY of people would take Tatum and Brown over them, as perimeter forward play wins in today's NBA.

Second, but even granting your argument, that still doesn't mean they are "worse than the Suns" on paper, as last I checked there are more than two players. And Boston's supporting cast is >> than the Suns' supporting cast.

That is exceedingly poor logic, Lar.
honestly, kyrie should consider signing with the suns.  It’s a better supporting cast and when he leads them to 50+ wins they will celebrate him ... as opposed to in Boston where he carried this lesser roster to 49 wins and they acted like he was a cancer.

Right?!? Once Kyrie could get away from passive Al Horford and offensively challenged Smart, he would be so much better off playing with an aggressive Josh Jackson and scoring Machine Jimmer Fredette.

....Imagine the possibilities...
come on now.  Booker is by far the best scorer on either team not named Irving (and might be a better scorer than Irving).  Ayton is BY FAR the best prospect on either team and as a rookie averaged a double double.  Warren is an excellent 4th scorer and solid defender. 

The Suns are almost there.  They need a PG (any PG really) and one more top end player to really move them along (it can be the same player).  It is why they are willing to move #6 for a quality veteran PG. 

Re: Are you okay with us not contending next year?
« Reply #74 on: June 15, 2019, 10:00:44 AM »

Online gouki88

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Ok with it or not, we aren't contending next year.  I don't see a feasible path to us contending in the next 5 years.  Should be in the mix for a late seed.


Elite defense and a decent offense is a formula for a middle seed (a la pacers this year) if combined with depth and team effort.

I expect all of those things from a brad Stevens team that doesnt have primadona distractions.


Regardless, they wouldn't be a contender. Not unless Tatum AND brown make major leaps AND Danny finds some Pascal siakam type gems in the draft.
Lotto is in play next season.  On paper, this team is worse than the Suns.



Classic LarBrd33 comment.
Find me a non-homer that wouldn't take booker and ayton over tatum and brown.

First, I think PLENTY of people would take Tatum and Brown over them, as perimeter forward play wins in today's NBA.

Second, but even granting your argument, that still doesn't mean they are "worse than the Suns" on paper, as last I checked there are more than two players. And Boston's supporting cast is >> than the Suns' supporting cast.

That is exceedingly poor logic, Lar.
honestly, kyrie should consider signing with the suns.  It’s a better supporting cast and when he leads them to 50+ wins they will celebrate him ... as opposed to in Boston where he carried this lesser roster to 49 wins and they acted like he was a cancer.

Right?!? Once Kyrie could get away from passive Al Horford and offensively challenged Smart, he would be so much better off playing with an aggressive Josh Jackson and scoring Machine Jimmer Fredette.

....Imagine the possibilities...
come on now.  Booker is by far the best scorer on either team not named Irving (and might be a better scorer than Irving).  Ayton is BY FAR the best prospect on either team and as a rookie averaged a double double.  Warren is an excellent 4th scorer and solid defender. 

The Suns are almost there.  They need a PG (any PG really) and one more top end player to really move them along (it can be the same player).  It is why they are willing to move #6 for a quality veteran PG.
My god. It really is classic of you to overrate another teams players so drastically that you would go as far as to say a team that won 19 games last season is "almost there".

 

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