Author Topic: Future CBA to Address Klutch?  (Read 995 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Future CBA to Address Klutch?
« on: June 12, 2019, 03:14:37 PM »

Offline Celtic

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3736
  • Tommy Points: 50
  • TRANSFORMATION INTO CHAMPION COMPLETE!!!
I know we've all speculated about this previously, however, I'm very interested to see if the next CBA does something to release some of the control that Rich Paul, Lebron and Klutch seemingly have over the league. It remains to be seen how formidable Klutch will be in dictating player movement in the post Lebron-as-a-player era, but currently they are a certain detriment to the NBA.

The league dropped by the ball by not intervening earlier, stopping or at least limiting, the Lebron backed agency. It is a clear violation and conflict of interest. While Klutch may be good for the AD's, Lebrons of the world, they are absolutely terrible for fans of the league and that is what truly matters.

Every power player wants to play for two horribly run franchises, one with a historic culture of losing (Knicks), simply because they are "big" markets. Should this happen it is a recipe for failure, you need Giannis in Milwaukee, just as much as you want Lebron in LA.

We all know the same story, the same things we're upset about, the question is what can the league do about it and more importantly, will they?


Re: Future CBA to Address Klutch?
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2019, 03:21:11 PM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18951
  • Tommy Points: 1841
I think the first part of your question is the bigger issue here:  What could the league do, via the CBA or otherwise?
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Future CBA to Address Klutch?
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2019, 03:24:02 PM »

Online Silky

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1549
  • Tommy Points: 81
It will be worse once lebron retires and immediately moves into some sort of gm position.

Then you will have someone controlling team personelle that also has control over the agency that represents them
Dallas
PG:Kemba/Brunson/Barea  SG:Brogdon/Snell/Broekhoff  SF: Doncic/Batum/Finley-smith  PF: White/Kleber/Dirk  C: Jordan/Powell/Sejri

Bucks
G-Hill, Bledsoe, Matthews, Snell, DiVincenzo, Connaughton, Brown F-Greek, Middleton, Illyasova, Smith, Maker, Spalding, Wood C- Lopez,

Re: Future CBA to Address Klutch?
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2019, 03:42:27 PM »

Offline Celtic

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3736
  • Tommy Points: 50
  • TRANSFORMATION INTO CHAMPION COMPLETE!!!
I think the first part of your question is the bigger issue here:  What could the league do, via the CBA or otherwise?

Yeah, I was hoping someone would have a suggestion. I'm not sure what Lebron's ownership stake is in Klutch.

It will be worse once lebron retires and immediately moves into some sort of gm position.

Then you will have someone controlling team personelle that also has control over the agency that represents them

That would definitely be a dangerous scenario. It likely boils down to which is more profitable, like when Jay-Z sold his ownership of the Nets to continue his agency.

Re: Future CBA to Address Klutch?
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2019, 03:50:50 PM »

Offline jpotter33

  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31134
  • Tommy Points: 313
I think the first part of your question is the bigger issue here:  What could the league do, via the CBA or otherwise?

Yeah, I was hoping someone would have a suggestion. I'm not sure what Lebron's ownership stake is in Klutch.

It will be worse once lebron retires and immediately moves into some sort of gm position.

Then you will have someone controlling team personelle that also has control over the agency that represents them

That would definitely be a dangerous scenario. It likely boils down to which is more profitable, like when Jay-Z sold his ownership of the Nets to continue his agency.

Not sure about the CBA, but the league absolutely should take action against Klutch for this article that came out that was clear tampering and against the rules.

I mean, he was fined for tampering for making the public trade demand, so how exactly would Paul openly saying the stuff that he did to SI not also constitute tampering? He was openly stating that AD wouldn’t resign in Boston so NOLA shouldn’t trade him there and Boston shouldn’t trade for him. That’s him clearly trying to tamper and influence the organization’s decision-making.
Whatever crushes individuality is despotism, by whatever name it may be called and whether it professes to be enforcing the will of God or the injunctions of men.

Re: Future CBA to Address Klutch?
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2019, 03:55:45 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • Global Moderator
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21623
  • Tommy Points: 1027
Lebron has no ownership stake in Klutch.  Klutch is his agent.

I mean is Rich Paul's representation of Eric Bledsoe a problem.  He pretty quietly re-upped in the middle of the season in Milwaukee.  Should we not allow that?

Rich Paul is a player's agent.  He grew up with a similar background and relates to players.  He also comes from a different educational and work background which also allows him to relate better to the players than many of the traditional lawyer type agents.  And because of those things he does things differently, but he absolutely 100% of the time is doing what his clients want.  Many of them go to him for exactly the reason Davis did.  Davis wanted out of New Orleans and wanted a guy that would do whatever was required to get Davis where he wanted to go.

Re: Future CBA to Address Klutch?
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2019, 09:13:50 PM »

Offline ozgod

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4784
  • Tommy Points: 268
I know we've all speculated about this previously, however, I'm very interested to see if the next CBA does something to release some of the control that Rich Paul, Lebron and Klutch seemingly have over the league. It remains to be seen how formidable Klutch will be in dictating player movement in the post Lebron-as-a-player era, but currently they are a certain detriment to the NBA.

The league dropped by the ball by not intervening earlier, stopping or at least limiting, the Lebron backed agency. It is a clear violation and conflict of interest. While Klutch may be good for the AD's, Lebrons of the world, they are absolutely terrible for fans of the league and that is what truly matters.

Every power player wants to play for two horribly run franchises, one with a historic culture of losing (Knicks), simply because they are "big" markets. Should this happen it is a recipe for failure, you need Giannis in Milwaukee, just as much as you want Lebron in LA.

We all know the same story, the same things we're upset about, the question is what can the league do about it and more importantly, will they?

Agents have looked out for their players' interests since there were agents, sometimes aggressively. Arn Tellem withheld access to Kobe Bryant to anyone but the Lakers to push him there. It's their job, as annoying as it can be. They just need to draw the line when it comes to tampering which can destabilize teams.

Also I'd hardly say that players are knocking down the door to play for the Lakers...word from Woj is that they're not going to be in contention for any of the elite FAs this summer (though that may be more to do with playing for LeBum than the Lakers).
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Future CBA to Address Klutch?
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2019, 09:26:11 PM »

Offline gouki88

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9498
  • Tommy Points: 414
Lebron has no ownership stake in Klutch.  Klutch is his agent.

I mean is Rich Paul's representation of Eric Bledsoe a problem.  He pretty quietly re-upped in the middle of the season in Milwaukee.  Should we not allow that?

Rich Paul is a player's agent.  He grew up with a similar background and relates to players.  He also comes from a different educational and work background which also allows him to relate better to the players than many of the traditional lawyer type agents.  And because of those things he does things differently, but he absolutely 100% of the time is doing what his clients want.  Many of them go to him for exactly the reason Davis did.  Davis wanted out of New Orleans and wanted a guy that would do whatever was required to get Davis where he wanted to go.
This is classic

Re: Future CBA to Address Klutch?
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2019, 10:30:53 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • Global Moderator
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21623
  • Tommy Points: 1027
Lebron has no ownership stake in Klutch.  Klutch is his agent.

I mean is Rich Paul's representation of Eric Bledsoe a problem.  He pretty quietly re-upped in the middle of the season in Milwaukee.  Should we not allow that?

Rich Paul is a player's agent.  He grew up with a similar background and relates to players.  He also comes from a different educational and work background which also allows him to relate better to the players than many of the traditional lawyer type agents.  And because of those things he does things differently, but he absolutely 100% of the time is doing what his clients want.  Many of them go to him for exactly the reason Davis did.  Davis wanted out of New Orleans and wanted a guy that would do whatever was required to get Davis where he wanted to go.
This is classic
It is true.  Only facts.

I mean here are some quotes as to why Draymond Green signed with Klutch and in general gravitates towards Rich Paul.

"Klutch is a cutting-edge company, it's a pure environment, and I've grown to know Rich over the years,"

"We've become very close. When you really take a step back and actually study what is going on, he checks every box that a player would want in an agent. So, why not? Some are afraid of what people will think or what will be said. That's not the case for me."

“Everyone just wants to say, ‘Oh, this guy’s LeBron’s friend and he’s used that.  No one talks about that extra $52 million or whatever number LeBron made by doing the deals that way. It would’ve been easy for Rich to say, ‘LeBron, I’m going to send you back to Cleveland on a four-year deal or a three-year deal with a two-year opt-out.’ No one would’ve complained. But he went a completely different route. He thought outside the box—and you see him do that with a lot of his deals.”

Re: Future CBA to Address Klutch?
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2019, 11:08:24 PM »

Offline Kuberski33

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4415
  • Tommy Points: 239
Legislating against Klutch would probably be an anti-trust action and the NBA would get it's behind handed to it in court. And as long as Rich Paul does right by his clients, what's really wrong with that?

What the NBA needs to do is try to stop the 'I want to play with my friends' stuff because it's really unfair to the people who buy tickets.  Say Ainge does swing a deal for Davis. Are you prepared for another season of will he or won't he re-sign like we just went through?  Personally I'm tired of it.

But the only thing that is likely to get anyone's attention is fans and sponsors deciding to spend their cash elsewhere because of it.  Until that happens, nothing really will change. 


Re: Future CBA to Address Klutch?
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2019, 11:11:56 PM »

Offline jpotter33

  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31134
  • Tommy Points: 313
Lebron has no ownership stake in Klutch.  Klutch is his agent.

I mean is Rich Paul's representation of Eric Bledsoe a problem.  He pretty quietly re-upped in the middle of the season in Milwaukee.  Should we not allow that?

Rich Paul is a player's agent.  He grew up with a similar background and relates to players.  He also comes from a different educational and work background which also allows him to relate better to the players than many of the traditional lawyer type agents.  And because of those things he does things differently, but he absolutely 100% of the time is doing what his clients want.  Many of them go to him for exactly the reason Davis did.  Davis wanted out of New Orleans and wanted a guy that would do whatever was required to get Davis where he wanted to go.
This is classic
It is true.  Only facts.

I mean here are some quotes as to why Draymond Green signed with Klutch and in general gravitates towards Rich Paul.

"Klutch is a cutting-edge company, it's a pure environment, and I've grown to know Rich over the years,"

"We've become very close. When you really take a step back and actually study what is going on, he checks every box that a player would want in an agent. So, why not? Some are afraid of what people will think or what will be said. That's not the case for me."

“Everyone just wants to say, ‘Oh, this guy’s LeBron’s friend and he’s used that.  No one talks about that extra $52 million or whatever number LeBron made by doing the deals that way. It would’ve been easy for Rich to say, ‘LeBron, I’m going to send you back to Cleveland on a four-year deal or a three-year deal with a two-year opt-out.’ No one would’ve complained. But he went a completely different route. He thought outside the box—and you see him do that with a lot of his deals.”

I mean, when I think of someone who is an excellent judge of character, Draymond Green isn't exactly the first person that comes to mind.  ;)
Whatever crushes individuality is despotism, by whatever name it may be called and whether it professes to be enforcing the will of God or the injunctions of men.

Re: Future CBA to Address Klutch?
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2019, 11:13:30 PM »

Offline Ogaju

  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10080
  • Tommy Points: 1090
there is a simple solution to this ......ban player discounts that players' take to form super teams.  It violates the spirit of the salary cap

Re: Future CBA to Address Klutch?
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2019, 11:14:06 PM »

Offline gouki88

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9498
  • Tommy Points: 414
there is a simple solution to this ......ban player discounts that players' take to form super teams.  It violates the spirit of the salary cap
How would this be simple though? Who determines what a players worth is?

Re: Future CBA to Address Klutch?
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2019, 11:16:28 PM »

Offline jpotter33

  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31134
  • Tommy Points: 313
So for those supporting Rich Paul's actions tell me this - how is this any different than the public trade demand that was considered tampering and that AD was fined for earlier in the season?

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2818278-pelicans-anthony-davis-fined-50k-for-agent-rich-paul-publicly-requesting-trade

Quote
It turns out Anthony Davis broke the rules when he turned the NBA world upside down with his trade request.

Alex Kennedy of HoopsHype shared the announcement from the league stipulating Davis was fined $50,000 "for violating a collectively-bargained rule prohibiting players or their representatives from making public trade demands. The fine is for statements that were made by Davis' agent, Rich Paul, in an intentional effort to undermine the contractual relationship between Davis and the Pelicans."

How is what Rich Paul stated in the SI article anything different than this? Not only is it an extension of the public trade demand, but Paul is also intentionally trying to limit the suitors for an AD trade by publicly stating who he will reportedly sign or not sign with in a future free agency, which certainly undermines the Pelicans' ability to trade him for a fair package. I just don't see how this isn't considered tampering on Paul's part.
Whatever crushes individuality is despotism, by whatever name it may be called and whether it professes to be enforcing the will of God or the injunctions of men.

Re: Future CBA to Address Klutch?
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2019, 11:18:42 PM »

Offline jpotter33

  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31134
  • Tommy Points: 313
there is a simple solution to this ......ban player discounts that players' take to form super teams.  It violates the spirit of the salary cap

I think the solitary super max contract idea would be a potential solution to this, i.e. the idea that each team would get to have one "super max contract" that could pay the player up to something like $50M per year, which would hopefully spread out the top talent more across the league instead of having them bundled up together.
Whatever crushes individuality is despotism, by whatever name it may be called and whether it professes to be enforcing the will of God or the injunctions of men.

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsStrong Forums.

Community

Signup to win FREE tickets

* indicates required