Predict the new Rumor dominoes.

[cltc5]

Windhorst believes Lebron teams up with KD, AD, KYRIE, STEPH ,  KLAY, BOOGIE, BEN SIMMONS, BUTLER AND Harden in LA!

[slamtheking]

I think Portland is a dark hours for getting Davis.

Portland gets Davis and Hayward
gives McCollum, Pick 25, 2020 first, Harkless, Leonard

Lillard
Turner
Hayward
Davis
Nurkic


NOP gets
McCollum, Rozier (S&T starting 15 mill), Mo Harkless, Anfernee Simons, Pick 20, Pick 25, 2020 Portland First
Give: Davis, Jrue, Moore

Pelicans get youth, and allstar level player and multiple picks. Also save capspace.

Rozier
McCollum
Harkless
Zion
Randle - Resigned

Boston gets Jrue and Moore
gives: Hayward, pick 20, Rozier s&t

Boston adds a replacement PG/SG who is a terrific defender and a capable scorer.

you are just adamant that you're going to trade away Hayward as well as S&T Rozier regardless of the low-value of Hayward at the moment and the difficulties of making a S&T work under the current CBA.

having said that,  this deal sucks for the C's.  Hayward, if he were to ever be traded, should have recovered enough to be worth well more than just Jrue and Moore.   As crappy a season as Rozier had last year, he's still worth more than Moore.  Suggesting we give up a first rounder as well is just rubbing salt in the wound.

from the perspective of NO, the deal sucks for them too.  AD alone would be worth more than that package nevermind also giving up Jrue and Moore.   A solid starter, an up-and-down combo guard, 2 journeymen and 3 late first rounders.   They're better off taking Tatum, Smart, Yabu/Williams and the 3 C's picks (or exchanging the Mem pick for one of this year's picks).

cause team will be better without them, and that is why they should be traded,

Rozier should have been traded at deadline, but Danny has a mancrush on him for some reason.

C's wouldn't be better with Jrue and Moore in their place.  trading Hayward for pennies on the dollar is poor asset management.  I get you may not like his lack of productivity last year, most don't like it, but his market value is pretty low right now.  better to wait to see if he improves for next year which I suspect he will.  at that point, depending on the team's make-up, it may be worth trading him in a package for someone better looking to move from their team or he may be back to the player we originally signed.   if he hasn't improved, he's easier to move as an expiring deal and the C's come off looking like a franchise that's supportive of its injured players.  if he's still got issues next year, it's past the point where players in the league would see it as a negative move by the C's.

No argument on dumping Rozier but a S&T isn't happening.  the money manipulations required to make a S&T work under the current CBA makes it far too difficult to pull off and that's not even taking into account trying to move him for a player that'd be worth having on the team.  He's either going to be let go if Kyrie resigns (just like Danny did with Olynyk when trying to make room for Hayward) or he's going to be resigned if Kyrie leaves  (vomit). 

[ETNCeltics]

LOL Hayward carried a much less talented team to the 2nd round of the playoffs in a much more difficult conference, and they won 50+ games. This dismissal of him is absurd. If we got a decent PG to replace Kyrie and Hayward improves, we could challenge anyone in the East, including Toronto if Kawhi returns.

[Silky]

I think Portland is a dark hours for getting Davis.

Portland gets Davis and Hayward
gives McCollum, Pick 25, 2020 first, Harkless, Leonard

Lillard
Turner
Hayward
Davis
Nurkic


NOP gets
McCollum, Rozier (S&T starting 15 mill), Mo Harkless, Anfernee Simons, Pick 20, Pick 25, 2020 Portland First
Give: Davis, Jrue, Moore

Pelicans get youth, and allstar level player and multiple picks. Also save capspace.

Rozier
McCollum
Harkless
Zion
Randle - Resigned

Boston gets Jrue and Moore
gives: Hayward, pick 20, Rozier s&t

Boston adds a replacement PG/SG who is a terrific defender and a capable scorer.

you are just adamant that you're going to trade away Hayward as well as S&T Rozier regardless of the low-value of Hayward at the moment and the difficulties of making a S&T work under the current CBA.

having said that,  this deal sucks for the C's.  Hayward, if he were to ever be traded, should have recovered enough to be worth well more than just Jrue and Moore.   As crappy a season as Rozier had last year, he's still worth more than Moore.  Suggesting we give up a first rounder as well is just rubbing salt in the wound.

from the perspective of NO, the deal sucks for them too.  AD alone would be worth more than that package nevermind also giving up Jrue and Moore.   A solid starter, an up-and-down combo guard, 2 journeymen and 3 late first rounders.   They're better off taking Tatum, Smart, Yabu/Williams and the 3 C's picks (or exchanging the Mem pick for one of this year's picks).

cause team will be better without them, and that is why they should be traded,

Rozier should have been traded at deadline, but Danny has a mancrush on him for some reason.

C's wouldn't be better with Jrue and Moore in their place.  trading Hayward for pennies on the dollar is poor asset management.  I get you may not like his lack of productivity last year, most don't like it, but his market value is pretty low right now.  better to wait to see if he improves for next year which I suspect he will.  at that point, depending on the team's make-up, it may be worth trading him in a package for someone better looking to move from their team or he may be back to the player we originally signed.   if he hasn't improved, he's easier to move as an expiring deal and the C's come off looking like a franchise that's supportive of its injured players.  if he's still got issues next year, it's past the point where players in the league would see it as a negative move by the C's.

No argument on dumping Rozier but a S&T isn't happening.  the money manipulations required to make a S&T work under the current CBA makes it far too difficult to pull off and that's not even taking into account trying to move him for a player that'd be worth having on the team.  He's either going to be let go if Kyrie resigns (just like Danny did with Olynyk when trying to make room for Hayward) or he's going to be resigned if Kyrie leaves  (vomit).

Maybe Hayward will get better, but I am not sold that Allstar Utah Hayward in a system designed exclusively around him can get to that point on a team oriented basketball team like Boston.

Also I am not convinced that Hayward, at his best, is better than Jrue at his best.

[Silky]

LOL Hayward carried a much less talented team to the 2nd round of the playoffs in a much more difficult conference, and they won 50+ games. This dismissal of him is absurd. If we got a decent PG to replace Kyrie and Hayward improves, we could challenge anyone in the East, including Toronto if Kawhi returns.

There was some very solid talent on that team.
the stellar defense of Gobert and good for 14ppg and 13rpg
Hills great defense and 17ppg
Hood going for 13 a game.

They had a very solid team, very underrated. Arguably as much talent as the celtics would have with Smart, Horford, Tatum and Brown.

And again, Utah was to maximize Hayward, Boston is about team basketball. He will probably never hit those numbers here again.

[Fafnir]

They beat a Clippers team who lost Blake in game 3 in 7 games. It was an accomplishment, but not anything I'd be excited to celebrate.

[Silky]

They beat a Clippers team who lost Blake in game 3 in 7 games. It was an accomplishment, but not anything I'd be excited to celebrate.

TP I forgot about that.

[ETNCeltics]

LOL Hayward carried a much less talented team to the 2nd round of the playoffs in a much more difficult conference, and they won 50+ games. This dismissal of him is absurd. If we got a decent PG to replace Kyrie and Hayward improves, we could challenge anyone in the East, including Toronto if Kawhi returns.

There was some very solid talent on that team.
the stellar defense of Gobert and good for 14ppg and 13rpg
Hills great defense and 17ppg
Hood going for 13 a game.

They had a very solid team, very underrated. Arguably as much talent as the celtics would have with Smart, Horford, Tatum and Brown.

And again, Utah was to maximize Hayward, Boston is about team basketball. He will probably never hit those numbers here again.

You're actually going to suggest that Gobert + some journeymen are equivalent to Tatum, Brown & Horford? Wow.   

[tonydelk]

Windhorst believes Lebron teams up with KD, AD, KYRIE, STEPH ,  KLAY, BOOGIE, BEN SIMMONS, BUTLER AND Harden in LA!

I also heard the real reason Magic stepped down was to focus on conditioning to come out of retirement to play 1 year with LBJ.

[tonydelk]

I think the only domino to change will be KD will stay in GSW for 1 year or sign an extension with them.

Kyrie - Signs with Nets
AD - Traded to Knicks
Butler - Signs with Knicks or LA
Leonard - Signs with Toronto or Clippers
Walker - Resigns with Charlotte
Harris - Resigns with Philly
Cousins - Signs with NYN or LA
Horford - Opts out and resigns with the C's for 3x20
Klay Thompson - Resigns with GSW

[celticsclay]

I think the only domino to change will be KD will stay in GSW for 1 year or sign an extension with them.

Kyrie - Signs with Nets
AD - Traded to Knicks
Butler - Signs with Knicks or LA
Leonard - Signs with Toronto or Clippers
Walker - Resigns with Charlotte
Harris - Resigns with Philly
Cousins - Signs with NYN or LA
Horford - Opts out and resigns with the C's for 3x20
Klay Thompson - Resigns with GSW

Wow Knicks get Butler, AD and Cousins?

[nickagneta]

I think Portland is a dark hours for getting Davis.

Portland gets Davis and Hayward
gives McCollum, Pick 25, 2020 first, Harkless, Leonard

Lillard
Turner
Hayward
Davis
Nurkic


NOP gets
McCollum, Rozier (S&T starting 15 mill), Mo Harkless, Anfernee Simons, Pick 20, Pick 25, 2020 Portland First
Give: Davis, Jrue, Moore

Pelicans get youth, and allstar level player and multiple picks. Also save capspace.

Rozier
McCollum
Harkless
Zion
Randle - Resigned

Boston gets Jrue and Moore
gives: Hayward, pick 20, Rozier s&t

Boston adds a replacement PG/SG who is a terrific defender and a capable scorer.

you are just adamant that you're going to trade away Hayward as well as S&T Rozier regardless of the low-value of Hayward at the moment and the difficulties of making a S&T work under the current CBA.

having said that,  this deal sucks for the C's.  Hayward, if he were to ever be traded, should have recovered enough to be worth well more than just Jrue and Moore.   As crappy a season as Rozier had last year, he's still worth more than Moore.  Suggesting we give up a first rounder as well is just rubbing salt in the wound.

from the perspective of NO, the deal sucks for them too.  AD alone would be worth more than that package nevermind also giving up Jrue and Moore.   A solid starter, an up-and-down combo guard, 2 journeymen and 3 late first rounders.   They're better off taking Tatum, Smart, Yabu/Williams and the 3 C's picks (or exchanging the Mem pick for one of this year's picks).

cause team will be better without them, and that is why they should be traded,

Rozier should have been traded at deadline, but Danny has a mancrush on him for some reason.

C's wouldn't be better with Jrue and Moore in their place.  trading Hayward for pennies on the dollar is poor asset management.  I get you may not like his lack of productivity last year, most don't like it, but his market value is pretty low right now.  better to wait to see if he improves for next year which I suspect he will.  at that point, depending on the team's make-up, it may be worth trading him in a package for someone better looking to move from their team or he may be back to the player we originally signed.   if he hasn't improved, he's easier to move as an expiring deal and the C's come off looking like a franchise that's supportive of its injured players.  if he's still got issues next year, it's past the point where players in the league would see it as a negative move by the C's.

No argument on dumping Rozier but a S&T isn't happening.  the money manipulations required to make a S&T work under the current CBA makes it far too difficult to pull off and that's not even taking into account trying to move him for a player that'd be worth having on the team.  He's either going to be let go if Kyrie resigns (just like Danny did with Olynyk when trying to make room for Hayward) or he's going to be resigned if Kyrie leaves  (vomit).

Maybe Hayward will get better, but I am not sold that Allstar Utah Hayward in a system designed exclusively around him can get to that point on a team oriented basketball team like Boston.

Also I am not convinced that Hayward, at his best, is better than Jrue at his best.

Where do you get this idea that the Utah system when Hayward was there was built around him and not a team basketball system like ours?

Quin Snyder is a great coach with a great system. He didn't pull a Mike D'Antoni and give the ball to Hayward and let him do everything, D'Antoni does with Harden.

That last Utah team had 6 players with usage percentages between 21% to 27%. By comparison, this year's Celtic "team system" had only 5 players with usage %'s between 21% and 29%. Hayward's usage in Utah was less than Kyrie's here and only slightly higher than Hill and Hood's usage percentage when Hayward played with them in Utah.

As a reference, the Rockets, a team clearly built around Harden have Harden's usage % at 40%.

[Silky]

I think Portland is a dark hours for getting Davis.

Portland gets Davis and Hayward
gives McCollum, Pick 25, 2020 first, Harkless, Leonard

Lillard
Turner
Hayward
Davis
Nurkic


NOP gets
McCollum, Rozier (S&T starting 15 mill), Mo Harkless, Anfernee Simons, Pick 20, Pick 25, 2020 Portland First
Give: Davis, Jrue, Moore

Pelicans get youth, and allstar level player and multiple picks. Also save capspace.

Rozier
McCollum
Harkless
Zion
Randle - Resigned

Boston gets Jrue and Moore
gives: Hayward, pick 20, Rozier s&t

Boston adds a replacement PG/SG who is a terrific defender and a capable scorer.

you are just adamant that you're going to trade away Hayward as well as S&T Rozier regardless of the low-value of Hayward at the moment and the difficulties of making a S&T work under the current CBA.

having said that,  this deal sucks for the C's.  Hayward, if he were to ever be traded, should have recovered enough to be worth well more than just Jrue and Moore.   As crappy a season as Rozier had last year, he's still worth more than Moore.  Suggesting we give up a first rounder as well is just rubbing salt in the wound.

from the perspective of NO, the deal sucks for them too.  AD alone would be worth more than that package nevermind also giving up Jrue and Moore.   A solid starter, an up-and-down combo guard, 2 journeymen and 3 late first rounders.   They're better off taking Tatum, Smart, Yabu/Williams and the 3 C's picks (or exchanging the Mem pick for one of this year's picks).

cause team will be better without them, and that is why they should be traded,

Rozier should have been traded at deadline, but Danny has a mancrush on him for some reason.

C's wouldn't be better with Jrue and Moore in their place.  trading Hayward for pennies on the dollar is poor asset management.  I get you may not like his lack of productivity last year, most don't like it, but his market value is pretty low right now.  better to wait to see if he improves for next year which I suspect he will.  at that point, depending on the team's make-up, it may be worth trading him in a package for someone better looking to move from their team or he may be back to the player we originally signed.   if he hasn't improved, he's easier to move as an expiring deal and the C's come off looking like a franchise that's supportive of its injured players.  if he's still got issues next year, it's past the point where players in the league would see it as a negative move by the C's.

No argument on dumping Rozier but a S&T isn't happening.  the money manipulations required to make a S&T work under the current CBA makes it far too difficult to pull off and that's not even taking into account trying to move him for a player that'd be worth having on the team.  He's either going to be let go if Kyrie resigns (just like Danny did with Olynyk when trying to make room for Hayward) or he's going to be resigned if Kyrie leaves  (vomit).

Maybe Hayward will get better, but I am not sold that Allstar Utah Hayward in a system designed exclusively around him can get to that point on a team oriented basketball team like Boston.

Also I am not convinced that Hayward, at his best, is better than Jrue at his best.

Where do you get this idea that the Utah system when Hayward was there was built around him and not a team basketball system like ours?

Quin Snyder is a great coach with a great system. He didn't pull a Mike D'Antoni and give the ball to Hayward and let him do everything, D'Antoni does with Harden.

That last Utah team had 6 players with usage percentages between 21% to 27%. By comparison, this year's Celtic "team system" had only 5 players with usage %'s between 21% and 29%. Hayward's usage in Utah was less than Kyrie's here and only slightly higher than Hill and Hood's usage percentage when Hayward played with them in Utah.

As a reference, the Rockets, a team clearly built around Harden have Harden's usage % at 40%.

WHo had the highest usage on that team?

And who would have the highest usage on this team?

I cannot see how one cannot claim that Hayward was the absolute centerpiece of that team, hands down.

And on a team with Tatum, Brown, Horford he would/should not be the centerpiece.

[tonydelk]

I think the only domino to change will be KD will stay in GSW for 1 year or sign an extension with them.

Kyrie - Signs with Nets
AD - Traded to Knicks
Butler - Signs with Knicks or LA
Leonard - Signs with Toronto or Clippers
Walker - Resigns with Charlotte
Harris - Resigns with Philly
Cousins - Signs with NYN or LA
Horford - Opts out and resigns with the C's for 3x20
Klay Thompson - Resigns with GSW

Wow Knicks get Butler, AD and Cousins?

I don't think Cousins gets a big deal this off season and has to sign a 1 year deal.  He's already played with AD and thrived.  They seemed to have liked playing together and if the Knicks send out salary for AD they can sign a max guy and give Cousins an ok 1 year deal to sign a big contract after next year.

[Moranis]

Free agents
Irving - Nets
Durant - Knicks
Butler - Nets
Cousins - Lakers
Thompson - Warriors
Harris - Sixers
Leonard - Raptors
Walker - Hornets
Russell - Clippers (Nets let him go to sign Butler and Irving)

Trades
Davis - Knicks
Love - Nuggets
Beal - Lakers