We Would Be NBA Champs This Week If...

[Birdman]

I wouldnt trade Brown and Smart for a one year rental..now if Leonard would signed long term of course..he probably told Celtics he wouldnt and thats why trade didnt happen

[Roy H.]

I can't see how you argue that Danny screwed this up based on the info he had and the assets we were giving up.

The argument is that top-5 players become available maybe a couple of times per decade.  If you have a chance to land one, it's better to pay the price and figure out how you'll retain that star later.

The crazy thing is, if we had traded Kyrie for Kawhi, we would have still been able to make a move for Davis.

Step 1 (summer of 2018):  Kyrie for Kawhi

Step 2 (summer of 2019):  Trade Tatum + Smart + picks for AD

Horford / Baynes
Davis / Morris
Kawhi / Hayward
Brown
Rozier

Fill in the blanks with the TP-MLE and vet minimums. 

I understand why Danny didn't want to flip Kyrie last summer, but I think it would have made for a better team.

The Spurs wouldn't have traded Kawhi for Kyrie because there is zero chance that Kyrie would re-sign with them.

The Spurs were on his "list" of preferred teams though, weren't they?

Yes. I’ve got to think Pop would have preferred Kyrie over DeRozan.

[Moranis]

Last summer I was pretty firmly in the acquire Leonard camp and we've all seen the reason why I wanted to get him.  Brown, Smart, and a lesser pick or two would have been well worth Leonard, even for a 1 year rental.  The conference was there for the taking, Ainge should have gone all in. 

If Ainge doesn't land Davis and Irving leaves, I think he should be on the hot seat as he would have royally messed up the last couple of seasons with his indecision.  And those couple of seasons were there for the taking.  In fact, since the Nets trade he has been mediocre in his moves overall (some good, some bad, some bleh).

[Fierce1]

Last summer I was pretty firmly in the acquire Leonard camp and we've all seen the reason why I wanted to get him.  Brown, Smart, and a lesser pick or two would have been well worth Leonard, even for a 1 year rental.  The conference was there for the taking, Ainge should have gone all in. 

If Ainge doesn't land Davis and Irving leaves, I think he should be on the hot seat as he would have royally messed up the last couple of seasons with his indecision.  And those couple of seasons were there for the taking.  In fact, since the Nets trade he has been mediocre in his moves overall (some good, some bad, some bleh).

I think the reason why his moves were mediocre the last couple of seasons is he's waiting for this opportunity to get Anthony Davis.

Anthony Davis has always been rumored to be a target of Ainge for some time now.

This is Ainge's chance to cash in.

[SHAQATTACK]

I can't see how you argue that Danny screwed this up based on the info he had and the assets we were giving up.

The argument is that top-5 players become available maybe a couple of times per decade.  If you have a chance to land one, it's better to pay the price and figure out how you'll retain that star later.

The crazy thing is, if we had traded Kyrie for Kawhi, we would have still been able to make a move for Davis.

Step 1 (summer of 2018):  Kyrie for Kawhi

Step 2 (summer of 2019):  Trade Tatum + Smart + picks for AD

Horford / Baynes
Davis / Morris
Kawhi / Hayward
Brown
Rozier

Fill in the blanks with the TP-MLE and vet minimums. 

I understand why Danny didn't want to flip Kyrie last summer, but I think it would have made for a better team.

The Spurs wouldn't have traded Kawhi for Kyrie because there is zero chance that Kyrie would re-sign with them.

The Spurs were on his "list" of preferred teams though, weren't they?

Yes. I’ve got to think Pop would have preferred Kyrie over DeRozan.

hands down he would have.  I expect he d swap out Demar for Kyrie today.   

GM for Raptors just out GM'd Danny

[Androslav]

Let’s hear from folks who think Trader Danny did not miss on this opportunity. To be fair, at the time nobody was fully aware of the state of his physical and mental health. That was the risk. We are now seeing the reward: No longer just the best defensive player and probably fourth or fifth best overall, he is now the overall best player in the world, above even LeBron and Durant...

Hindsight is 20-20, but outbidding the Raptors and taking the gamble would have almost surely led to our next title either last night or this week...

SAS (mistakenly) thought they were in win now mode.
That's why they didn't want just young talent in return.
DD was on a long term deal and an All star, our guys weren't.
Before you throw trash on our GM do your homework please.
I was a Kawhi guy before it was cool and I don't believe we could have got him.
Even though I'd love that he came here.
Spurs are an overrated franchise (management) for the last 5 years.
Mishandling cap space by poor signings and their franchise player who was supposed to carry them for the next 10 years.

[jambr380]

I posted this link in a different thread, but it shows a timeline of just how bizarre the Kawhi saga was:

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/07/whats-going-on-with-kawhi-leonard-a-strange-timeline

It's hard to look at the Raptors today and say they didn't hit a homerun, but Kawhi had just totally quit on his team and was ghosting everybody. Of course if we could go back in time and trade Brown/Smart or Kyrie for him, you would have to do it, but there was no guarantee it was going to work out. In fact, there were guarantees that he was signing in LA no matter what.

Trading Kyrie for Kawhi and then still being able to trade for AD mid-season would have been crazy.

[Androslav]

I posted this link in a different thread, but it shows a timeline of just how bizarre the Kawhi saga was:

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/07/whats-going-on-with-kawhi-leonard-a-strange-timeline

It's hard to look at the Raptors today and say they didn't hit a homerun, but Kawhi had just totally quit on his team and was ghosting everybody. Of course if we could go back in time and trade Brown/Smart or Kyrie for him, you would have to do it, but there was no guarantee it was going to work out. In fact, there were guarantees that he was signing in LA no matter what.

The article ends with:
"Leonard reportedly does not want to play for the Raptors, so this deal likely won’t end well."

I think media gets some things right just by sheer number of different reports and then they eventual hit some.
I personally look for facts (we do actually get some facts on occasion), I try to find motives and I just about always take players side of the story. By using this method I believe I hit twice as many takes right than the mainstream media does.
Which is not that surprising since reporters often have their little rotten agendas unrelated to the truth.

[jambr380]

I posted this link in a different thread, but it shows a timeline of just how bizarre the Kawhi saga was:

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/07/whats-going-on-with-kawhi-leonard-a-strange-timeline

It's hard to look at the Raptors today and say they didn't hit a homerun, but Kawhi had just totally quit on his team and was ghosting everybody. Of course if we could go back in time and trade Brown/Smart or Kyrie for him, you would have to do it, but there was no guarantee it was going to work out. In fact, there were guarantees that he was signing in LA no matter what.

The article ends with:
"Leonard reportedly does not want to play for the Raptors, so this deal likely won’t end well."

I think media gets some things right just by sheer number of different reports and then they eventual hit some.
I personally look for facts (we do actually get some facts on occasion), I try to find motives and I just about always take players side of the story. By using this method I believe I hit twice as many takes right than the mainstream media does.
Which is not that surprising since reporters often have their little rotten agendas unrelated to the truth.

Oh, the opinion of it not ending well is still up in the air, but things are looking mighty bright for the Raptors even if Kawhi does leave.

But it was widely reported that he didn't want to play for the Raptors and if things broke differently, they easily could have gone down in the 2nd round to Philly. And if Boston didn't have an epic meltdown this year, they were also slated to go further. The Raptors took a calculated risk and it absolutely paid off. I'm happy for them!

[BringToughnessBack]

So, a lot of people say how Danny dropped the ball and even I think about it a bit.

Scenario 1-Lets assume we traded Brown and Tatum or Smart included instead of one of the other for Kawhi

We still potentially don't make it to the finals as who knows how Kyrie and Kawhi play and on best case, we do. What makes everyone think the media and some fans would have still not ridden Kyrie so hard this year? and then what makes you think that negative vibe would not have rubbed off on Kawhi? It would have in my opinion and thus we would not have made the finals anyway.

At end of season, both Kawhi and Kyrie decide to leave so now we are stuck with no Brown, Tatum or Kyrie and Kawhi- The fans would demand Danny's head for this trade even with a title win(which I dont believe would have happened anyways). Who in their right mind would risk everything for one chance at a title followed by no young players to build with and two stars heading out the door? That is a risk of massive proportions.

Yes, it is possible that Kawhi and Kyrie fall in love here in Boston but doubtful. We would still have been putting every Kyrie move under the microscope and then Kawhi, unlike in Toronto, would have gotten to experience that as well. I say we don't even make the finals with both of them due to this.

So, now we go into this coming season with no superstars and no Brown and Tatum. Boy, what a wonderful world this would be coupled with an aging Horford and unknown Hayward.

Scenario 2- Now there is another scenario if we traded Kyrie for Kawhi, we keep our young players and then gel much better. This is a possibility but last summer not many GM's would have gotten rid of Kyrie for Kawhi but that scenario might have gotten us a title and even with Kawhi leaving, we would still maintain our youth and a chance in 2021 to get more big agents here.

I am starting to come to the conclusion that Danny did not blow it and when Kawhi bolts for Doc in LA (because I am assuming scenario 1 would have been the way we got Kawhi), it will be even more apparent. The risk of losing everything in the hopes we would have somehow clicked better is a big assumption and one that is mired with doubts.

This is one reason I am worried if we do trade Brown and Tatum now for Davis and Davis bolts, we are right at the scenario I described above. Lottery bound for the foreseeable future unless Danny gets 2 max agents in 2021. But with Kyrie and Davis as examples of bolting Boston and how you might be treated if you don't fit in immediately, that will be a harder sell then ever before.  Even the way we treated Hayward since his brutal injury he got playing for our team, is another shining light on how brutal some in the media and fandom can be.

Keeping Brown and Tatum now if Kyrie bolts makes more sense to me. This way, we add to them in 2021. But then again, I guess one year chance at the finals and possibility of restocking in 2021 is a possibility as well but I don't think Boston has made it easier to get a free agent after this past season.

Final verdict is we still would have not won a title this year. In the end, toxic wins out most of the time.

[Ogaju]

the theme in most of the posts in this thread is WHY DANNY will OVERPAY FOR AD.

[moiso]

I can't see how you argue that Danny screwed this up based on the info he had and the assets we were giving up.

The argument is that top-5 players become available maybe a couple of times per decade.  If you have a chance to land one, it's better to pay the price and figure out how you'll retain that star later.

The crazy thing is, if we had traded Kyrie for Kawhi, we would have still been able to make a move for Davis.

Step 1 (summer of 2018):  Kyrie for Kawhi

Step 2 (summer of 2019):  Trade Tatum + Smart + picks for AD

Horford / Baynes
Davis / Morris
Kawhi / Hayward
Brown
Rozier

Fill in the blanks with the TP-MLE and vet minimums. 

I understand why Danny didn't want to flip Kyrie last summer, but I think it would have made for a better team.

The Spurs wouldn't have traded Kawhi for Kyrie because there is zero chance that Kyrie would re-sign with them.

The Spurs were on his "list" of preferred teams though, weren't they?

Yes. I’ve got to think Pop would have preferred Kyrie over DeRozan.

I don’t know.  Pop always says the Spurs only acquire players “who are over themselves.”  That’s the opposite of Irving.  The Spurs don’t do divas.

Plus in Irving’s mind the Spurs might sound good in theory but he’d never buy in and he’d never resign.  Part of being a Spur is going to frequent multiple hour dinners arranged by Pop.  Pop picks the food, the wine, and arranges the seating as he sees fit.  Usually guys that he thinks need to communicate with each other for one reason or another get seated together.   No way would Irving be down for any of that long term.

[bopna]

I am leaning towards a volatile relations between KL and Kyrie hence I don't think it would have worked out. Both are alpha's and would need the ball in their hands a lot. I also think that Danny had JT, and GH already even if he traded JB so it would have been redundant, but knowing what we know now that JT was regressing and GH cloned into Chandler Parsons, then it would have been a good idea to have gone all in on KL. C's would have ruled the EAST.

I must admit, I never knew KL would be this good, I thought he wasn't as good as PG13, boy was I wrong.

[SparzWizard]

I am leaning towards a volatile relations between KL and Kyrie hence I don't think it would have worked out. Both are alpha's and would need the ball in their hands a lot. I also think that Danny had JT, and GH already even if he traded JB so it would have been redundant, but knowing what we know now that JT was regressing and GH cloned into Chandler Parsons, then it would have been a good idea to have gone all in on KL. C's would have ruled the EAST.

I must admit, I never knew KL would be this good, I thought he wasn't as good as PG13, boy was I wrong.

I never knew Kawhi Leonard would be compared to Michael Jordan after his injury. Pretty crazy stuff.

[ozgod]

Last summer I was pretty firmly in the acquire Leonard camp and we've all seen the reason why I wanted to get him.  Brown, Smart, and a lesser pick or two would have been well worth Leonard, even for a 1 year rental.  The conference was there for the taking, Ainge should have gone all in. 

If Ainge doesn't land Davis and Irving leaves, I think he should be on the hot seat as he would have royally messed up the last couple of seasons with his indecision.  And those couple of seasons were there for the taking.  In fact, since the Nets trade he has been mediocre in his moves overall (some good, some bad, some bleh).

I think the reason why his moves were mediocre the last couple of seasons is he's waiting for this opportunity to get Anthony Davis.

Anthony Davis has always been rumored to be a target of Ainge for some time now.

This is Ainge's chance to cash in.

It's ironic that after years of being patient, stockpiling assets, and even sacrificing last season to make sure the stage was set for an AD heist, Danny is in the position where he might not be able to pull the trigger because of Kyrie leaving. The best laid plans of mice and men...