Poll

...last summer we had traded Tatum, Rozier, Morris and picks for Kawhi Leonard?

Yes
11 (33.3%)
No
12 (36.4%)
Maybe
10 (30.3%)

Total Members Voted: 33

« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Down

Author Topic: We Would Be NBA Champs This Week If...  (Read 6229 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

We Would Be NBA Champs This Week If...
« on: June 08, 2019, 07:48:35 PM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

  • NCE
  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2116
  • Tommy Points: 94
Let’s hear from folks who think Trader Danny did not miss on this opportunity. To be fair, at the time nobody was fully aware of the state of his physical and mental health. That was the risk. We are now seeing the reward: No longer just the best defensive player and probably fourth or fifth best overall, he is now the overall best player in the world, above even LeBron and Durant...

Hindsight is 20-20, but outbidding the Raptors and taking the gamble would have almost surely led to our next title either last night or this week...
Logged
Re: We Would Be NBA Champs This Week If...
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2019, 07:54:56 PM »

Offline ozgod

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18801
  • Tommy Points: 1528
As you said, hindsight is 20/20. For all you know trading for Kawhi would have led to even more infighting in the team because Kyrie and Kawhi would have competed for time on the ball, Gordon would still have caused frustration with his teammates with minutes...etc.etc. I don't think you can say "well Kawhi did it with Toronto he would have done the same with the Celtics". He replaced their previous alpha so it was easy to slot him in. We had all kinds of stuff going on in our team with too many players trying to be the man.

I guess you could argue that if you had shipped off Tatum, Mook, Rozier that would be a majority of the malcontents but I'd struggle to name a handful of people that would have thought that was a good deal at the time. As you said, hindsight = 20/20. If I was judged on decisions I made in hindsight I think I'd be a better trader than Danny  :angel:
Logged
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: We Would Be NBA Champs This Week If...
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2019, 07:58:25 PM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

  • NCE
  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2116
  • Tommy Points: 94
I counter that the beauty of Kawhi is no ego. Just like he let Duncan be the face of the franchise in 2014, I think he would have been the ying to Irving’s yang. And even Irving would have to accept that Leonard is the best player since LeBron circa 2016.
Logged
Re: We Would Be NBA Champs This Week If...
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2019, 08:11:39 PM »

Offline BitterJim

  • NGT
  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9193
  • Tommy Points: 1239
Quote from: GreenlyGreeny on June 08, 2019, 07:58:25 PM
I counter that the beauty of Kawhi is no ego. Just like he let Duncan be the face of the franchise in 2014, I think he would have been the ying to Irving’s yang. And even Irving would have to accept that Leonard is the best player since LeBron circa 2016.

He didn't "let" Duncan be the face of anything. Duncan was the face of the franchise from 1998 until he retired, Kawhi was a young player breaking out.

That's like saying that Rondo let KG or Pierce be the face of the franchise in 2011 or 2012
Logged
I'm bitter.
Re: We Would Be NBA Champs This Week If...
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2019, 08:12:18 PM »

Offline Chris22

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5081
  • Tommy Points: 460
Absolutely, yes.

There are only a handful of players who can deliver a championship. Leonard is one of them. Kyrie is not.

I hope Danny figures out how to get one of these players.
Logged
Re: We Would Be NBA Champs This Week If...
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2019, 08:20:34 PM »

Offline Pvictor11

  • Al Horford
  • Posts: 408
  • Tommy Points: 62
Why are you jumping to the conclusion that SAS would accept that offer? I wouldn't.

So, we would be champs every year if we could force other teams to accept any offer from us...
Logged
Brazilian Celtic Fan!
Re: We Would Be NBA Champs This Week If...
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2019, 08:37:30 PM »

Offline IDreamCeltics

  • NCE
  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1401
  • Tommy Points: 140
Quote from: ozgod on June 08, 2019, 07:54:56 PM
As you said, hindsight is 20/20. For all you know trading for Kawhi would have led to even more infighting in the team because Kyrie and Kawhi would have competed for time on the ball, Gordon would still have caused frustration with his teammates with minutes...etc.etc. I don't think you can say "well Kawhi did it with Toronto he would have done the same with the Celtics". He replaced their previous alpha so it was easy to slot him in. We had all kinds of stuff going on in our team with too many players trying to be the man.

I guess you could argue that if you had shipped off Tatum, Mook, Rozier that would be a majority of the malcontents but I'd struggle to name a handful of people that would have thought that was a good deal at the time. As you said, hindsight = 20/20. If I was judged on decisions I made in hindsight I think I'd be a better trader than Danny  :angel:

At this point anyone who can complete a trade is better than Danny.  The guy has been trigger-shy since the Kryrie trade. 
Logged
Re: We Would Be NBA Champs This Week If...
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2019, 08:52:55 PM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 63302
  • Tommy Points: -25460
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
I don't think that Tatum would have been necessary.  Apparently the Spurs coveted Brown, so he would have been the centerpiece.

The other idea that I found interesting was swapping Kyrie for Kawhi.  Under those circumstances, I do indeed think we might have won a title.

But, go back and read the threads.  There was a surprising lack of interest in Kawhi, largely because of the way his Spurs season ended.  There were a lot of attacks on his character, and relatively few fans wanted to take the risk.  That said, fans shouldn't decide the franchise's direction.  I do think that Danny has made two relatively large mistakes of late:  he could have traded for either Kawhi or Paul George, and he didn't land either one.
Logged


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER... AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!

KP / Giannis / Turkuglu / Jrue / Curry
Sabonis / Brand / A. Thompson / Oladipo / Brunson
Jordan / Bowen

Redshirt:  Cooper Flagg
Re: We Would Be NBA Champs This Week If...
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2019, 09:32:42 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18912
  • Tommy Points: 1119
Trade Irving and Brown for Leonard and get it done. That'll shut the Spurs up about getting rotational players.

Pick up veteran bigs to add size advantage off the market.

Win NBA title this year. Darn it what could have been.
Logged


#FireJoe
#JTJB (Just Trade Jaylen Brown) 2022 - 2025
I am the Master of Panic.
Re: We Would Be NBA Champs This Week If...
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2019, 09:49:59 PM »

Offline Sketch5

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3247
  • Tommy Points: 281
LOL

I remember a lot of people on hear saying they didn't want to trade Brown for Leonard, mostly because of his contract and the way he was with the Spurs.

Now that he's doing well everyone is made at DA for not pulling the trigger. Even though DA has been playing the long game and going after AD(which people don't want because of contract and how he's dealt with NO).

Whats funnier is we were laughing how easy we could get to the finals and possible dethrone GSW with the team we had going in. Lot's of things can look good or bad on paper, but doesn't pan out the way you think it would. Leonard probably would have made the team better, but we don't really know that we would have been winning a championship this week for sure. Could have gone south real bad if he and Irving didn't see eye to eye.
Logged
Re: We Would Be NBA Champs This Week If...
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2019, 10:09:47 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5227
  • Tommy Points: 1065
Kawhi was in a weird place and gave no indication he would stay for the Celtics.

George was viewed as 100% leaving for the Lakers or such.

Kyrie Irving, on the other hand, arguably preferred the Celtics.

https://celticswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/18/boston-was-kyrie-irvings-preferred-destination-in-2017-trade-request/

And if getting Kawhi would have meant trading Brown, how would that have been the better move?

Surrender a late lottery pick for a guy who wants to be here, vs. a top-3 pick and more for someone who doesn't?

And then who knows what would have happened. the fact that George stayed with OKC means nothing about whether he would have stayed with us. The fact that Kawhi might win a ring means nothing about whether we would have too, or whether he would stay.

I can't see how you argue that Danny screwed this up based on the info he had and the assets we were giving up.
Logged
Re: We Would Be NBA Champs This Week If...
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2019, 10:21:00 PM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 63302
  • Tommy Points: -25460
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
Quote from: Boris Badenov on June 08, 2019, 10:09:47 PM

I can't see how you argue that Danny screwed this up based on the info he had and the assets we were giving up.

The argument is that top-5 players become available maybe a couple of times per decade.  If you have a chance to land one, it's better to pay the price and figure out how you'll retain that star later.

The crazy thing is, if we had traded Kyrie for Kawhi, we would have still been able to make a move for Davis.

Step 1 (summer of 2018):  Kyrie for Kawhi

Step 2 (summer of 2019):  Trade Tatum + Smart + picks for AD

Horford / Baynes
Davis / Morris
Kawhi / Hayward
Brown
Rozier

Fill in the blanks with the TP-MLE and vet minimums. 

I understand why Danny didn't want to flip Kyrie last summer, but I think it would have made for a better team.
Logged


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER... AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!

KP / Giannis / Turkuglu / Jrue / Curry
Sabonis / Brand / A. Thompson / Oladipo / Brunson
Jordan / Bowen

Redshirt:  Cooper Flagg
Re: We Would Be NBA Champs This Week If...
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2019, 10:32:55 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5227
  • Tommy Points: 1065
Quote from: Roy H. on June 08, 2019, 10:21:00 PM
Quote from: Boris Badenov on June 08, 2019, 10:09:47 PM

I can't see how you argue that Danny screwed this up based on the info he had and the assets we were giving up.

The argument is that top-5 players become available maybe a couple of times per decade.  If you have a chance to land one, it's better to pay the price and figure out how you'll retain that star later.


Right. But as you mentioned above, there was a lot of uncertainty about whether Leonard would ever come back to his previous level as a player, and his mental makeup given that he seemingly checked out on the season for one of the better-managed franchises in the league.

It was by no means "acquire a top-5 player." It was riskier.
Logged
Re: We Would Be NBA Champs This Week If...
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2019, 10:56:45 PM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 63302
  • Tommy Points: -25460
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
Quote from: Boris Badenov on June 08, 2019, 10:32:55 PM
It was by no means "acquire a top-5 player." It was riskier.

Well, it was exactly "acquire a top-5 player", it just had plenty of risk attached.  But, weighing that risk against the reward of an MVP still would have made it a sensible move.

The same is true of Anthony Davis.  Hopefully Danny learned the right lesson.
Logged


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER... AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!

KP / Giannis / Turkuglu / Jrue / Curry
Sabonis / Brand / A. Thompson / Oladipo / Brunson
Jordan / Bowen

Redshirt:  Cooper Flagg
Re: We Would Be NBA Champs This Week If...
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2019, 11:03:22 PM »

Offline Fierce1

  • NGT
  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2630
  • Tommy Points: 121
The trade for Kawhi was supposed to be for Jaylen Brown, Smart, and picks.

I'm not sure we would be champs this week if we had Kawhi, but I believe the Celts would have advanced to the east finals if Kawhi was a Celtic this season.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Up
« previous next »