C's must get bigger gamble trade

[wiley]

I think I laid out everything pretty clearly in the original post.  It would be hard to get Memphis to accept this deal.

A.  Most agree that JJJ is a better prospect potential-wise than Tatum due to his size, defense..
     We shall see.

B.  Everyone agrees that to get Memphis to give up Morant would take more than 14 and their pick
     back to them.  How much more I don't know...but it becomes too expensive for sure. 



I don't think in two years the Grizzlies will be able to match what Sacramento did this year.  JJJ is still 19 years old I think.  (Hield is like 25).  Bogdanovic was awesome...Harrison Barnes was added...WCS was a stud center along with Bagley.  More likely, the Grizzlies will spend the next two years really sucking.  I'd predict pick 3-6 next year and pick 5-8 the year after.  What if Conley stays this year but is gone the next?  Then they may be even worse in two years than this one. 


The Grizzlies got Valanciunas in the Gasol trade.  He's young and humongous.  JJJ should be great next to him but so might Doumbouya, Nassir Little or Brandon Clarke, or PJ Washington.  Certainly one of those will be available at 14.  None will be trash in the league. (biggest bust possibility there being Clarke).  Or Kevin Porter Jr.  Will he be trash in the league?  Or an all star in 3 years...?

In any case...I agree it's too hard to get Memphis to bite on this one.  And risky for Danny as well.  (if JJJ disappoints). 

If no AD, I hope Danny drafts one of Doumbouya, PJ Washington or Clarke at pick 14, unless Little falls...might be hard to pass on Little. 

The team needs athletic bigs. 

[Sophomore]

Hope DA has his eye on a good big within our draft range - somebody who might be there at 14 or a few picks higher if we move up. Be great to hit on a foreign pick for a change.

Last year nbadraft.net did a very good job guessing picks (I think their mocks are reported, not the analyst’s opinion about who teams *should* pick). They have the Cs taking a kid I’ve never heard of - 6’10” 250, 7’3” wingspan, out of FSU. Nephew of Dikembe Mutombo. https://www.nbadraft.net/players/mfiondu-kabengele.

They also have three bigs at 10, 11, and 13 - spots we might be able to move into if things fell right: Bruno Fernando, Sekou Doumbouya, Rui Hachimura.

Don’t ask me - I got no idea!

[gouki88]

Hope DA has his eye on a good big within our draft range - somebody who might be there at 14 or a few picks higher if we move up. Be great to hit on a foreign pick for a change.

Last year nbadraft.net did a very good job guessing picks (I think their mocks are reported, not the analyst’s opinion about who teams *should* pick). They have the Cs taking a kid I’ve never heard of - 6’10” 250, 7’3” wingspan, out of FSU. Nephew of Dikembe Mutombo. https://www.nbadraft.net/players/mfiondu-kabengele.

They also have three bigs at 10, 11, and 13 - spots we might be able to move into if things fell right: Bruno Fernando, Sekou Doumbouya, Rui Hachimura.

Don’t ask me - I got no idea!

Kabengele would be a good pick I think. He was an absolute killer in limited minutes at FSU. He was their leading scorer despite only playing 21MPG, and has the ability to score from all over the court. Plus, his defence is quite good (although not quite as good as his uncle!) and he has really good physical tools.

[wiley]

Hope DA has his eye on a good big within our draft range - somebody who might be there at 14 or a few picks higher if we move up. Be great to hit on a foreign pick for a change.

Last year nbadraft.net did a very good job guessing picks (I think their mocks are reported, not the analyst’s opinion about who teams *should* pick). They have the Cs taking a kid I’ve never heard of - 6’10” 250, 7’3” wingspan, out of FSU. Nephew of Dikembe Mutombo. https://www.nbadraft.net/players/mfiondu-kabengele.

They also have three bigs at 10, 11, and 13 - spots we might be able to move into if things fell right: Bruno Fernando, Sekou Doumbouya, Rui Hachimura.

Don’t ask me - I got no idea!

Kabengele would be a good pick I think. He was an absolute killer in limited minutes at FSU. He was their leading scorer despite only playing 21MPG, and has the ability to score from all over the court. Plus, his defence is quite good (although not quite as good as his uncle!) and he has really good physical tools.

Yeah.  You never know.  Kabengele might end up out JJJing JJJ himself....

[hwangjini_1]

Hope DA has his eye on a good big within our draft range - somebody who might be there at 14 or a few picks higher if we move up. Be great to hit on a foreign pick for a change.

Last year nbadraft.net did a very good job guessing picks (I think their mocks are reported, not the analyst’s opinion about who teams *should* pick). They have the Cs taking a kid I’ve never heard of - 6’10” 250, 7’3” wingspan, out of FSU. Nephew of Dikembe Mutombo. https://www.nbadraft.net/players/mfiondu-kabengele.

They also have three bigs at 10, 11, and 13 - spots we might be able to move into if things fell right: Bruno Fernando, Sekou Doumbouya, Rui Hachimura.

Don’t ask me - I got no idea!

Kabengele would be a good pick I think. He was an absolute killer in limited minutes at FSU. He was their leading scorer despite only playing 21MPG, and has the ability to score from all over the court. Plus, his defence is quite good (although not quite as good as his uncle!) and he has really good physical tools.

for those of you with inquiring minds....

http://www.tankathon.com/players/mfiondu-kabengele

after watching the videos i was impressed, especially with how quickly he shots 3 pointers after he catches the ball. and he made 37% of them last year and stands 6'10".

no idea why is a very, very late first round prediction.

[gouki88]

Hope DA has his eye on a good big within our draft range - somebody who might be there at 14 or a few picks higher if we move up. Be great to hit on a foreign pick for a change.

Last year nbadraft.net did a very good job guessing picks (I think their mocks are reported, not the analyst’s opinion about who teams *should* pick). They have the Cs taking a kid I’ve never heard of - 6’10” 250, 7’3” wingspan, out of FSU. Nephew of Dikembe Mutombo. https://www.nbadraft.net/players/mfiondu-kabengele.

They also have three bigs at 10, 11, and 13 - spots we might be able to move into if things fell right: Bruno Fernando, Sekou Doumbouya, Rui Hachimura.

Don’t ask me - I got no idea!

Kabengele would be a good pick I think. He was an absolute killer in limited minutes at FSU. He was their leading scorer despite only playing 21MPG, and has the ability to score from all over the court. Plus, his defence is quite good (although not quite as good as his uncle!) and he has really good physical tools.

for those of you with inquiring minds....

http://www.tankathon.com/players/mfiondu-kabengele

after watching the videos i was impressed, especially with how quickly he shots 3 pointers after he catches the ball. and he made 37% of them last year and stands 6'10".

no idea why is a very, very late first round prediction.

I think it's two reasons.

1) He's 21, and will be close to 22 come draft night. Scouts seem to always overlook players who play more than one year in college (see Donovan Mitchell), and year-in year-out players prove them wrong.

2) He came off the bench. FSU run a bit of an atypical system, but Kabengele was still able to kill it, putting up insane per-40 stats. However I think again teams get caught up in whether or not a player was the star of the program.

[ETNCeltics]

A.  Most agree that JJJ is a better prospect potential-wise than Tatum due to his size, defense..
     We shall see.

lol no they don't. No way I'd trade Tatum for him straight up.

[wiley]

A.  Most agree that JJJ is a better prospect potential-wise than Tatum due to his size, defense..
     We shall see.

lol no they don't. No way I'd trade Tatum for him straight up.

That's great!  I hope you turn out to be right on that...

[gouki88]

A.  Most agree that JJJ is a better prospect potential-wise than Tatum due to his size, defense..
     We shall see.

lol no they don't. No way I'd trade Tatum for him straight up.

You might not, but in terms of trade value Jackson is probably slightly higher right now. He is still 19 years old, and put up what was really a good rookie season on a team where there was lots of dysfunction - whether it be coaching or management - and changing parts through trades and injuries.

He's a much better defender than Tatum was at the same stage of his career, and their rookie seasons where very very similar, except Tatum had a much better situation.

I like Tatum, but JJJ isn't some scrub.

[Sophomore]

Hope DA has his eye on a good big within our draft range - somebody who might be there at 14 or a few picks higher if we move up. Be great to hit on a foreign pick for a change.

Last year nbadraft.net did a very good job guessing picks (I think their mocks are reported, not the analyst’s opinion about who teams *should* pick). They have the Cs taking a kid I’ve never heard of - 6’10” 250, 7’3” wingspan, out of FSU. Nephew of Dikembe Mutombo. https://www.nbadraft.net/players/mfiondu-kabengele.

They also have three bigs at 10, 11, and 13 - spots we might be able to move into if things fell right: Bruno Fernando, Sekou Doumbouya, Rui Hachimura.

Don’t ask me - I got no idea!

Kabengele would be a good pick I think. He was an absolute killer in limited minutes at FSU. He was their leading scorer despite only playing 21MPG, and has the ability to score from all over the court. Plus, his defence is quite good (although not quite as good as his uncle!) and he has really good physical tools.

for those of you with inquiring minds....

http://www.tankathon.com/players/mfiondu-kabengele

after watching the videos i was impressed, especially with how quickly he shots 3 pointers after he catches the ball. and he made 37% of them last year and stands 6'10".

no idea why is a very, very late first round prediction.

Doesn’t have KG’s talent, but from those clips it looks like he might be in the ballpark for intensity.

[Csfan1984]

A good deal of the fan base doesn't want to wait on Tatum and Brown already and you want to deal for JJJ and Morant who are 2 years behind Tatum and Brown? You aren't going to get a lot of support for this position.

[wiley]

A good deal of the fan base doesn't want to wait on Tatum and Brown already and you want to deal for JJJ and Morant who are 2 years behind Tatum and Brown? You aren't going to get a lot of support for this position.

And you?  What do you think?

The asking for support angle doesn't really interest me as it results in nothing....but I really enjoy hearing where people are at on this or that player in the league...especially the mysterious young ones who may or may not be great one day. 

Yes the two-year "vet" Tatum, a next-year rookie and a future rookie go out go out for a one-year player and a next-year rookie.  Not exactly an example of tossing our vets overboard.   

Rozier, Smart, Brown (3 year vet), Hayward, Horford, maybe Morris, Baynes, etc...  It remains a vet team.
No one said Morant and JJJ have to come in and start right away.  When ready yes.

Also, while Morant would be the youngest (or newest) among himself, Tatum and JJJ, he'd probably be the one that Celtic fans would get the most excited about.  The problem is more about getting him than tolerating him. 

[RazzelnoDazzel]

A good deal of the fan base doesn't want to wait on Tatum and Brown already and you want to deal for JJJ and Morant who are 2 years behind Tatum and Brown? You aren't going to get a lot of support for this position.

Extremely good point. This point should speak out to anyone who would want this trade.

A good deal of the fan base doesn't want to wait on Tatum and Brown already and you want to deal for JJJ and Morant who are 2 years behind Tatum and Brown? You aren't going to get a lot of support for this position.

And you?  What do you think?

The asking for support angle doesn't really interest me as it results in nothing....but I really enjoy hearing where people are at on this or that player in the league...especially the mysterious young ones who may or may not be great one day. 

Yes the two-year "vet" Tatum, a next-year rookie and a future rookie go out go out for a one-year player and a next-year rookie.  Not exactly an example of tossing our vets overboard.   

Rozier, Smart, Brown (3 year vet), Hayward, Horford, maybe Morris, Baynes, etc...  It remains a vet team.
No one said Morant and JJJ have to come in and start right away.  When ready yes.

Also, while Morant would be the youngest (or newest) among himself, Tatum and JJJ, he'd probably be the one that Celtic fans would get the most excited about.  The problem is more about getting him than tolerating him.

 Right now our core brings up tot he playoffs every year. Last year was pretty much the only year we didn’t make a deep playoff run. Why throw that away? You throw it away to be right back in the same position 2 years for now? Just everyone else on the roster that’s not jjj and ja is older now. Then you state that they don’t have to start immediately, which future damages your point of doing the trade. If we are winning now, and the main goal is to win why break it up? You add to what’s working, that’s how you keep winning.

[wiley]

A good deal of the fan base doesn't want to wait on Tatum and Brown already and you want to deal for JJJ and Morant who are 2 years behind Tatum and Brown? You aren't going to get a lot of support for this position.

Extremely good point. This point should speak out to anyone who would want this trade.

A good deal of the fan base doesn't want to wait on Tatum and Brown already and you want to deal for JJJ and Morant who are 2 years behind Tatum and Brown? You aren't going to get a lot of support for this position.

And you?  What do you think?

The asking for support angle doesn't really interest me as it results in nothing....but I really enjoy hearing where people are at on this or that player in the league...especially the mysterious young ones who may or may not be great one day. 

Yes the two-year "vet" Tatum, a next-year rookie and a future rookie go out go out for a one-year player and a next-year rookie.  Not exactly an example of tossing our vets overboard.   

Rozier, Smart, Brown (3 year vet), Hayward, Horford, maybe Morris, Baynes, etc...  It remains a vet team.
No one said Morant and JJJ have to come in and start right away.  When ready yes.

Also, while Morant would be the youngest (or newest) among himself, Tatum and JJJ, he'd probably be the one that Celtic fans would get the most excited about.  The problem is more about getting him than tolerating him.

 Right now our core brings up tot he playoffs every year. Last year was pretty much the only year we didn’t make a deep playoff run. Why throw that away? You throw it away to be right back in the same position 2 years for now? Just everyone else on the roster that’s not jjj and ja is older now. Then you state that they don’t have to start immediately, which future damages your point of doing the trade. If we are winning now, and the main goal is to win why break it up? You add to what’s working, that’s how you keep winning.

There may be many ways to argue that the idea is a poor one...chiefly that it's a hard type of deal to pull off.  But the age/experience angle is not imo a good argument unless you really think of Tatum as a seasoned veteran player far far ahead of the other two.  I do not think this.

There were a lot of times throughout this season that I felt Tatum should be coming off the bench.  That doesn't mean he sucks.  I love him and he's an awesome prospect.  But to me he spent a lot of the year not deserving the starting spot. 

We are talking about three lottery pick players.  We'd be trading a 21 year old for two guys who'll be 20 this summer.  Hardly a big shakeup experience wise.  The level of talent is the issue to think about, not their ages or effect of age on the Celtics.  Tatum, Morant and Jackson Jr. are all going to be very good or great players.  Too bad we can't have all three, whether starting or off the bench. 

And as I say in previous post...to succeed in landing Morant is the problem.  If that were accomplished, no one will be complaining about his age, nor whether he starting by month 1, month 5 or month 13.

[RazzelnoDazzel]

A good deal of the fan base doesn't want to wait on Tatum and Brown already and you want to deal for JJJ and Morant who are 2 years behind Tatum and Brown? You aren't going to get a lot of support for this position.

Extremely good point. This point should speak out to anyone who would want this trade.

A good deal of the fan base doesn't want to wait on Tatum and Brown already and you want to deal for JJJ and Morant who are 2 years behind Tatum and Brown? You aren't going to get a lot of support for this position.

And you?  What do you think?

The asking for support angle doesn't really interest me as it results in nothing....but I really enjoy hearing where people are at on this or that player in the league...especially the mysterious young ones who may or may not be great one day. 

Yes the two-year "vet" Tatum, a next-year rookie and a future rookie go out go out for a one-year player and a next-year rookie.  Not exactly an example of tossing our vets overboard.   

Rozier, Smart, Brown (3 year vet), Hayward, Horford, maybe Morris, Baynes, etc...  It remains a vet team.
No one said Morant and JJJ have to come in and start right away.  When ready yes.

Also, while Morant would be the youngest (or newest) among himself, Tatum and JJJ, he'd probably be the one that Celtic fans would get the most excited about.  The problem is more about getting him than tolerating him.

 Right now our core brings up tot he playoffs every year. Last year was pretty much the only year we didn’t make a deep playoff run. Why throw that away? You throw it away to be right back in the same position 2 years for now? Just everyone else on the roster that’s not jjj and ja is older now. Then you state that they don’t have to start immediately, which future damages your point of doing the trade. If we are winning now, and the main goal is to win why break it up? You add to what’s working, that’s how you keep winning.

There may be many ways to argue that the idea is a poor one...chiefly that it's a hard type of deal to pull off.  But the age/experience angle is not imo a good argument unless you really think of Tatum as a seasoned veteran player far far ahead of the other two.  I do not think this.

There were a lot of times throughout this season that I felt Tatum should be coming off the bench.  That doesn't mean he sucks.  I love him and he's an awesome prospect.  But to me he spent a lot of the year not deserving the starting spot. 

We are talking about three lottery pick players.  We'd be trading a 21 year old for two guys who'll be 20 this summer.  Hardly a big shakeup experience wise.  The level of talent is the issue to think about, not their ages or effect of age on the Celtics.  Tatum, Morant and Jackson Jr. are all going to be very good or great players.  Too bad we can't have all three, whether starting or off the bench. 

And as I say in previous post...to succeed in landing Morant is the problem.  If that were accomplished, no one will be complaining about his age, nor whether he starting by month 1, month 5 or month 13.

They say in order to win a championship in the NBA you must first experience failure. I agree with this statement, which is why I highly value the fact that Rozier, Tatum, Brown, and Smart all not only have playoff experience, but deep playoff experience. They experienced the biggest heartache one should take before making the finals (in my opinion).

Celtics are a winning franchise not a building one. You are asking to step back into an unnecessary rebuilding step. I’m not saying Tatum is a seasoned vet, I’m saying he is a well accomplished young player. There is no one his age that has had as much playoff success as him. I know there is Siakam, but Siakam has Kawhi carrying him, the Celtics young’s has themselves to look at and THATS VALUABLE.

At the end we just have to agree to disagree. I wouldn’t reboot our young’s as I see the negatives out way the pros. If Brown and Tatum cannot get you to the playoffs than your argument holds weight. If they can, then your trade is a lateral movement AT BEST.