Author Topic: Trump gets what he wants - Barr assigns John Durham to Russia case  (Read 1424 times)

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Re: Trump gets what he wants - Barr assigns John Durham to Russia case
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2019, 08:00:45 PM »

Offline The Oracle

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The whole investigation started and the FISA warrants issued because George Papadopoulos was bragging that the Russians had Clinton's emails to diplomats from an American ally, Australia, before the Russians released the emails. After seeing the emails released by the Russians(after Trump in a rally asked Russia to release them), Australia contacted the US and the investigation began.

Given those facts, I am not sure how you can claim the investigation was unwarranted or illegal. An ally of ours alerted the government that an official in a President's campaign knows of Russians trying to influence an American election and what was the government supposed to do? Ignore it?

The investigation brought to light tremendous amount of evidence of Russian election interference and lots of corruption surrounding Trump. It was necessary, even if The Donald doesn't accept that fact.
This post might not age very well.  We by NO means have all of the information that will help to determine whether what you have said is indeed a FACT.  There is plenty of evidence to suggest that what actually happened might be far far from what you suggest.  The Huber report into Comey is supposed to be out in the next week or 2.  The Horowitz report in a month or 2.  Other investigations are ongoing.  I find it hard to believe anyone can say they KNOW what did and didn't happen at this point without bias.

Re: Trump gets what he wants - Barr assigns John Durham to Russia case
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2019, 09:05:42 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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The whole investigation started and the FISA warrants issued because George Papadopoulos was bragging that the Russians had Clinton's emails to diplomats from an American ally, Australia, before the Russians released the emails. After seeing the emails released by the Russians(after Trump in a rally asked Russia to release them), Australia contacted the US and the investigation began.

Given those facts, I am not sure how you can claim the investigation was unwarranted or illegal. An ally of ours alerted the government that an official in a President's campaign knows of Russians trying to influence an American election and what was the government supposed to do? Ignore it?

The investigation brought to light tremendous amount of evidence of Russian election interference and lots of corruption surrounding Trump. It was necessary, even if The Donald doesn't accept that fact.
This post might not age very well.  We by NO means have all of the information that will help to determine whether what you have said is indeed a FACT.  There is plenty of evidence to suggest that what actually happened might be far far from what you suggest.  The Huber report into Comey is supposed to be out in the next week or 2.  The Horowitz report in a month or 2.  Other investigations are ongoing.  I find it hard to believe anyone can say they KNOW what did and didn't happen at this point without bias.
Just stating the facts put out by the Mueller Report. You can choose to think they aren't facts and Papadopoulos was convicted on "alternative facts" and that Papadopoulos, pled guilty and went to jail based on lies, but I will trust the evidence presented and used to convict him.

Re: Trump gets what he wants - Barr assigns John Durham to Russia case
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2019, 03:31:04 AM »

Offline The Oracle

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The whole investigation started and the FISA warrants issued because George Papadopoulos was bragging that the Russians had Clinton's emails to diplomats from an American ally, Australia, before the Russians released the emails. After seeing the emails released by the Russians(after Trump in a rally asked Russia to release them), Australia contacted the US and the investigation began.

Given those facts, I am not sure how you can claim the investigation was unwarranted or illegal. An ally of ours alerted the government that an official in a President's campaign knows of Russians trying to influence an American election and what was the government supposed to do? Ignore it?

The investigation brought to light tremendous amount of evidence of Russian election interference and lots of corruption surrounding Trump. It was necessary, even if The Donald doesn't accept that fact.
This post might not age very well.  We by NO means have all of the information that will help to determine whether what you have said is indeed a FACT.  There is plenty of evidence to suggest that what actually happened might be far far from what you suggest.  The Huber report into Comey is supposed to be out in the next week or 2.  The Horowitz report in a month or 2.  Other investigations are ongoing.  I find it hard to believe anyone can say they KNOW what did and didn't happen at this point without bias.
Just stating the facts put out by the Mueller Report. You can choose to think they aren't facts and Papadopoulos was convicted on "alternative facts" and that Papadopoulos, pled guilty and went to jail based on lies, but I will trust the evidence presented and used to convict him.
Papadopoulos was caught in a perjury trap.  He was guilty of nothing else and has been fully cleared of any wrongdoing otherwise from what I understand.  The story he tells is almost beyond belief and at this point I have no idea what to make of it. 

According to former U.S. attorney Joe DiGenova, Durham has been working on this for a couple months and supposedly already conducted a grand jury in Connecticut.  DiGenova also says that I.G. Horowitz has already determined that the final 3 FISA warrants were completely illegal and is close to making the same determination on the 1st one.  Where he gets his information and whether to believe him I have no idea but if true then this will be a blockbuster with multiple indictments. 

Re: Trump gets what he wants - Barr assigns John Durham to Russia case
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2019, 06:30:18 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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This could happen to either party in the future that is why I think it is so important.   

Quote
The email exchanges included then-FBI Director James Comey, key FBI investigators in the Russia probe and lawyers in the DOJ’s national security division, and they occurred in early to mid-October, before the FBI successfully secured a FISA warrant to spy on Trump campaign adviser Carter Page.

The email exchanges show the FBI was aware — before it secured the now-infamous warrant — that there were intelligence community concerns about the reliability of the main evidence used to support it: the Christopher Steele dossier.

The exchanges also indicate FBI officials were aware that Steele, the former MI6 British intelligence operative then working as a confidential human source for the bureau, had contacts with news media reporters before the FISA warrant was secured.

The FBI fired Steele on Nov. 1, 2016 — two weeks after securing the warrant — on the grounds that he had unauthorized contacts with the news media.

But the FBI withheld from the American public and Congress, until months later, that Steele had been paid to find his dirt on Trump by a firm doing political opposition research for the Democratic Party and for Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton, and that Steele himself harbored hatred for Trump.

If the FBI knew of his media contacts and the concerns about the reliability of his dossier before seeking the warrant, it would constitute a serious breach of FISA regulations and the trust that the FISA court places in the FBI.

That’s because the FBI has an obligation to certify to the court before it approves FISA warrants that its evidence is verified, and to alert the judges to any flaws in its evidence or information that suggest the target might be innocent.

Sources tell me the email chain provides the most direct evidence that the bureau, and possibly the DOJ, had reasons to doubt the Steele dossier before the FISA warrant was secured.

Sources say the specifics of the email chain remain classified, but its general sentiments about the Steele dossier and the media contacts have been discussed in nonclassified settings.

“If these documents are released, the American public will have clear and convincing evidence to see the FISA warrant that escalated the Russia probe just before Election Day was flawed and the judges [were] misled,” one knowledgeable source told me.

That evidence, the Steele dossier, was not fully vetted by the bureau and was deemed unverified months after the warrant was issued.

At least one news article was used in the FISA warrant to bolster the dossier as independent corroboration when, it fact, it was traced to a news organization that had been in contact with Steele, creating a high likelihood it was circular intelligence reporting.

And the entire warrant, the FBI’s own document shows, was being rushed to approval by two agents who hated Trump and stated in their own texts that they wanted to “stop” the Republican from becoming president.

If ever there were grounds to investigate the investigators, these facts provide the justification.


https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/419901-fbi-email-chain-may-provide-most-[dang]ing-evidence-of-fisa-abuses-yet

It is in everyone's interest that we don't have rogue agents with political agendas trying to decide who is president.   This could be your  party the next time.

Re: Trump gets what he wants - Barr assigns John Durham to Russia case
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2019, 07:13:29 AM »

Online SHAQATTACK

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the way i hear this stuff reported , FBI was politically corrupt doing favors or ignoring the law for Clintons political convenience .  She was trying to set Trump up.

BTW ....American accusations of another country meddling in American politics is the pot calling the kettle black .  I would venture to guess no other country in the world has screwed around underhandedly with affairs of other countries more than the USA in past 100 years.

Re: Trump gets what he wants - Barr assigns John Durham to Russia case
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2019, 07:23:41 AM »

Offline trickybilly

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This could happen to either party in the future that is why I think it is so important.   

Quote
The email exchanges included then-FBI Director James Comey, key FBI investigators in the Russia probe and lawyers in the DOJ’s national security division, and they occurred in early to mid-October, before the FBI successfully secured a FISA warrant to spy on Trump campaign adviser Carter Page.

The email exchanges show the FBI was aware — before it secured the now-infamous warrant — that there were intelligence community concerns about the reliability of the main evidence used to support it: the Christopher Steele dossier.

The exchanges also indicate FBI officials were aware that Steele, the former MI6 British intelligence operative then working as a confidential human source for the bureau, had contacts with news media reporters before the FISA warrant was secured.

The FBI fired Steele on Nov. 1, 2016 — two weeks after securing the warrant — on the grounds that he had unauthorized contacts with the news media.

But the FBI withheld from the American public and Congress, until months later, that Steele had been paid to find his dirt on Trump by a firm doing political opposition research for the Democratic Party and for Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton, and that Steele himself harbored hatred for Trump.

If the FBI knew of his media contacts and the concerns about the reliability of his dossier before seeking the warrant, it would constitute a serious breach of FISA regulations and the trust that the FISA court places in the FBI.

That’s because the FBI has an obligation to certify to the court before it approves FISA warrants that its evidence is verified, and to alert the judges to any flaws in its evidence or information that suggest the target might be innocent.

Sources tell me the email chain provides the most direct evidence that the bureau, and possibly the DOJ, had reasons to doubt the Steele dossier before the FISA warrant was secured.

Sources say the specifics of the email chain remain classified, but its general sentiments about the Steele dossier and the media contacts have been discussed in nonclassified settings.

“If these documents are released, the American public will have clear and convincing evidence to see the FISA warrant that escalated the Russia probe just before Election Day was flawed and the judges [were] misled,” one knowledgeable source told me.

That evidence, the Steele dossier, was not fully vetted by the bureau and was deemed unverified months after the warrant was issued.

At least one news article was used in the FISA warrant to bolster the dossier as independent corroboration when, it fact, it was traced to a news organization that had been in contact with Steele, creating a high likelihood it was circular intelligence reporting.

And the entire warrant, the FBI’s own document shows, was being rushed to approval by two agents who hated Trump and stated in their own texts that they wanted to “stop” the Republican from becoming president.

If ever there were grounds to investigate the investigators, these facts provide the justification.


https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/419901-fbi-email-chain-may-provide-most-[dang]ing-evidence-of-fisa-abuses-yet

It is in everyone's interest that we don't have rogue agents with political agendas trying to decide who is president.   This could be your  party the next time.

While I think everyone agrees that having decisions of the JD being _entirely_ political motivated is something that needs to be critically stopped, if you truly think that this "investigation of the investigation" is a) itself not ACTUALLY entirely political, or b) can't be logically dismissed as legitimate, by acknowledging that the during the FBI investigation, the JD was kinda freaking out about the amount of extremely bright red flags around the Trump family's, and also the campaign's dealings with Russian agents (which have in turn led to several uncontroversial convictions), and those bureaucrats charged with ensuring national security also having personal opinions about Trump: I don't really know how to continue to discuss this.

Like, the JD went to ENORMOUS lengths to ensure their investigation was confidential, and did as little much as possible to ensure that the mere fact of the investigation couldn't be used as a political football!!

EDIT: see strikethrough above for a fairly key modification.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 07:40:01 AM by trickybilly »
"Gimme the ball, gimme the ball". Freddy Quimby, 1994.

Re: Trump gets what he wants - Barr assigns John Durham to Russia case
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2019, 07:44:55 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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The Trump family definitely has some red flags including our sitting President.    But allowing rogue elements inside the FBI to attempt to sway  elections and have fall back plans is much worse to me.   It means some of them picked a side and I think law enforcement should be above politics and non-partisan, don't you?

Re: Trump gets what he wants - Barr assigns John Durham to Russia case
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2019, 08:51:00 AM »

Online fairweatherfan

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The Trump family definitely has some red flags including our sitting President.    But allowing rogue elements inside the FBI to attempt to sway  elections and have fall back plans is much worse to me.   It means some of them picked a side and I think law enforcement should be above politics and non-partisan, don't you?

Friendly reminder, for something like the 4th time, that the head of the FBI violated DoJ guidelines to announce a fruitless reopening of the Hillary Clinton email investigation less than 2 weeks before the election, and SDNY agents were leaking information to Rudy Giuliani, while no one announced or even leaked the existence of the Trump campaign investigation until well after the election.

There is an exponentially stronger case for elements of the FBI attempting to sway the election in Trump's favor than against him.

Re: Trump gets what he wants - Barr assigns John Durham to Russia case
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2019, 09:14:34 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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The Trump family definitely has some red flags including our sitting President.    But allowing rogue elements inside the FBI to attempt to sway  elections and have fall back plans is much worse to me.   It means some of them picked a side and I think law enforcement should be above politics and non-partisan, don't you?

Friendly reminder, for something like the 4th time, that the head of the FBI violated DoJ guidelines to announce a fruitless reopening of the Hillary Clinton email investigation less than 2 weeks before the election, and SDNY agents were leaking information to Rudy Giuliani, while no one announced or even leaked the existence of the Trump campaign investigation until well after the election.

There is an exponentially stronger case for elements of the FBI attempting to sway the election in Trump's favor than against him.

Yeah but that was 3 years ago and Trump is talking now!

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Trump gets what he wants - Barr assigns John Durham to Russia case
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2019, 09:21:59 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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the way i hear this stuff reported , FBI was politically corrupt doing favors or ignoring the law for Clintons political convenience .  She was trying to set Trump up.

BTW ....American accusations of another country meddling in American politics is the pot calling the kettle black .  I would venture to guess no other country in the world has screwed around underhandedly with affairs of other countries more than the USA in past 100 years.

It's funny, because this kind of amounts to, "you get what you give" but the same pundits and politicians touting this line, which is ultimately about accountability and acceptance of guilt, fail to apply it anywhere else the US has acted improperly. It's almost like they're just picking and choosing where to be accountable and where to ignore hard conversations.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Trump gets what he wants - Barr assigns John Durham to Russia case
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2019, 10:49:10 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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The Trump family definitely has some red flags including our sitting President.    But allowing rogue elements inside the FBI to attempt to sway  elections and have fall back plans is much worse to me.   It means some of them picked a side and I think law enforcement should be above politics and non-partisan, don't you?

Friendly reminder, for something like the 4th time, that the head of the FBI violated DoJ guidelines to announce a fruitless reopening of the Hillary Clinton email investigation less than 2 weeks before the election, and SDNY agents were leaking information to Rudy Giuliani, while no one announced or even leaked the existence of the Trump campaign investigation until well after the election.

There is an exponentially stronger case for elements of the FBI attempting to sway the election in Trump's favor than against him.

Yeah but that was 3 years ago and Trump is talking now!
agreed.  this current turn is purely political retribution by Trump. 

The evidence from the Mueller report pretty much showed that there was something significant to those allegations.  also, even though there may not have been any technical 'collusion' or conspiracy with the Russians, Trump's campaign knew about their efforts to sabotage Hillary and did nothing to report it -- just kicked back and planned to reap the benefits of it.   That's a long way from "exonerated" in my book.

Re: Trump gets what he wants - Barr assigns John Durham to Russia case
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2019, 01:39:18 PM »

Offline heyvik

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lhttps://washingtonmonthly.com/2019/07/09/dojs-inspector-general-report-on-russia-delayed-as-steele-found-credible/

Ive been wondering what ever happened to the IG investigaion of Michael Horowitz. Looks like Steele is credible..and that may spell teouble for the Investigation of the Investigation.

Quote
If the one key witness referred to here is actually Christopher Steele, and Steele was found “sufficiently credible” such that the investigation needed to be extended, that’s not exactly what the president and his supporters were hoping to hear.

Horowitz began his career at the DOJ in 1991 and moved up the ladder there during the Clinton administration. He was assigned as the Inspector General in 2012, during the Obama administration. There is no particular reason to think that he’s a hatchet man for Donald Trump or a lackey for William Barr. If Trump were truly comfortable that Horowitz would back up his Deep State conspiracy claims, it’s doubtful he would have had Barr assign John Durham to begin a second investigation that will come at the question from a slightly different angle.

It’s also interesting that the sources for Fox News say that it was the onset of the Durham investigation that led to the “breakthrough” of previously reluctant witnesses agreeing to talk to Horowitz’s investigators. If this includes Christopher Steele, is seems that he may have chosen to speak with the people he thought would give him a fairer hearing.

There are clearly some things in Steele’s dossier that are wrong, and the administration has really been trying to exploit that in recent months. They’ve been acting almost giddy about getting Horowitz’s report in anticipation of using it as a way to discredit Robert Mueller’s scheduled testimony before Congress. Now it looks like the timing is going to be off on that, and there’s reason for the administration to be concerned that Horowitz will be helpful at all.

Re: Trump gets what he wants - Barr assigns John Durham to Russia case
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2019, 02:49:39 PM »

Offline Bobshot

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Biggest cover up in history. Will Pelosi let Trump get away with it?

Re: Trump gets what he wants - Barr assigns John Durham to Russia case
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2019, 03:03:31 PM »

Online fairweatherfan

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Biggest cover up in history. Will Pelosi let Trump get away with it?

100% she will. Her complete abdication of any real oversight is reason number 10,000 why I will never call myself a Democrat.

It's important to note that the coverup doesn't just extend to Trump + his campaign knowingly encouraging and benefiting from a foreign government attacking the elections while lying to the American people about it for years, but also to the nature of the attack itself - they're trying to cast doubt on the fact that Russia interfered to help Trump win. 

It's as deeply anti-American as anything I can remember. Trump over party over country.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 03:09:02 PM by fairweatherfan »

Re: Trump gets what he wants - Barr assigns John Durham to Russia case
« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2019, 04:21:24 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote

Biggest cover up in history. Will Pelosi let Trump get away with it?

She is not a dummy and know if the investigation goes on it will boomerang back on the Dems.

Quote
It's important to note that the coverup doesn't just extend to Trump + his campaign knowingly encouraging and benefiting from a foreign government attacking the elections while lying to the American people about it for years, but also to the nature of the attack itself - they're trying to cast doubt on the fact that Russia interfered to help Trump win.

Funny, this is Bob Mueller is a great investigator and had several years and he did not find conclusive evidence to clear or charge President Trump.   You my friend, have been played by the liberal media, and bought their lies ( which I might add are lies just like President Trump's) hook line and sinker.

Quote
If the one key witness referred to here is actually Christopher Steele, and Steele was found “sufficiently credible” such that the investigation needed to be extended, that’s not exactly what the president and his supporters were hoping to hear.

Steele is a foriegn national that the democratic party colluded with exactly what the left accused Pres. Trump of.

Quote
During the 2016 election, Steele was hired by the opposition research firm Fusion GPS to research Trump’s Russia ties. His work was funded in part by a law firm that represented the Democratic National Committee.

The interview is part of an ongoing investigation that the Justice Department’s inspector general, Michael Horowitz, has been conducting for the past year. Specifically, Horowitz has been examining the FBI’s efforts to surveil a one-time Trump campaign adviser based in part on information from Steele, an ex-British MI6 agent who had worked with the bureau as a confidential source since 2010.

Horowitz’s team has been intensely focused on gauging Steele’s credibility as a source for the bureau. But Steele was initially reluctant to speak with the American investigators because of the potential impropriety of his involvement in an internal DOJ probe as a foreign national and retired British intelligence agent.

Steele’s allies have also repeatedly noted that the dossier was not the original basis for the FBI’s probe into Trump and Russia.

The interview was contentious at first, the sources added, but investigators ultimately found Steele’s testimony credible and even surprising. The takeaway has irked some U.S. officials interviewed as part of the probe — they argue that it shouldn’t have taken a foreign national to convince the inspector general that the FBI acted properly in 2016. Steele’s American lawyer was present for the conversation.

I got news for you this is a trap so they can continue investigate and link it back to the Democrats as I see it.    This will be the way they link it back to Hillary and allows them to pursue investigation into the FBI's bias.   That is why the investigation is going on and think about they may just offered Steele immunity for his testimony.   So let us wait and see, but I don't think this is the victory and some think.  But enjoy your brief breath of hope, before the boomerang hits.   


 

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