Random question about the Boogie trade

[Moranis]

Cousins never makes the playoffs even with davis. Kind of sad. That isn't a top player in my book. His defense leaves a lot to be desired

Even with Davis? Boogie played 17 games for NOP last season. This year, they’re above .500 and are on track to make the playoffs, despite really poor coaching, management and roster construction.

It’s too bad Boogie wasn’t coached by a CBS-level coach his entire career. If he was, he’d be viewed as a top-3 player.

Everyone on Celtic Blog can name 10 players they want the ball in their hands at the end of the game over Boogie. Boogie is a top ten talent but not "Player". It is a big difference. He will not be on the Celtics based on what is between the ears.

since when is having the ball in your hands a sign of being a better player.  I'd trust IT with the ball in his hand at the end of the game more than most everyone else in the league, it doesn't mean IT is a better player then a lot of those guys. 

[Eddie20]

Just checking what the final haul from the trade was (Hield, Justin Jackson, Giles, Galloway, Evans), after seeing Cousins argue with refs after two no-calls, not running back on D, in two critical spots in the game. Anthony Davis was sitting on the bench at the time and must've been pulling his hair out.

He had a couple bone-head plays where he dribbled like Jamal Crawford at the three point line, threw up two late shot clock heaves after 20 seconds of you-are-fooling-no-one dribbling.

I would love to know what Danny offered for him, but it can't have been much, and my word that now looks like a savvy not-move in hindsight..

The guy is averaging 25.5 points / 12.6 rebounds / 5.4 assists / 1.7 steals / 1.6 blocks / .521 eFG%. His team is above .500 and would currently make the playoffs, despite a really poorly-constructed roster.  He’s got, by far, the best DRtg on his team.

But yeah, he picks up a tech on average every 3 or 4 games, the same as Dray Green.

He's also a ball stopper, who sulks, gives inconsistent effort, and take a lot of plays off defensively.

Tons of talent, but not a winning player.

On that point (but with data), on a team with little talent beyond Davis, Cousins is managing a measly -2.4 point net plus-minus this year. He makes the Pelicans worse overall, at least so far this season.

The Pelicans are 8 points worse offensively with him on the floor despite his gaudy numbers, mostly because they become a much less efficient scoring team and turn it over more. They are about 5 points better on D with Cousins out there. (But see Davis's numbers below).

Meanwhile the Pels are a +6 on offense and a +12 on defense with Davis on the floor, for an overall +17 net plus-minus. Davis makes them better in terms of efficiency, rebounding, passing, you name it. And makes their opponents significantly worse.

It's surprising to me that these differences could be so big given that these two share the floor a lot.

don't have any stats and I have only seen a few of their games but IIRC Cousins usually plays the first Q and Davis rest early to start the 2nd while Cous rests. The difference may come during times like that, Davis plays the bench opponents early in the 2nd Q while Cousins may be playing starters or the top bench guys (I don't know if it's the same rotation 2nd half but could add to it if so).

They swap roles in the second half. Mid-3Q Cousins stays, Davis rests, and Davis replaces Cousins to begin the 4th.

that isn't swapping. That is exactly the same thing

I misread what was written. In fact, what I usually see is the following:
1Q Davis stays
2Q Cousins replaces Davis to start the quarter
3Q Cousins stays
4Q Davis replaces Cousins to start the quarter

This was also evident in their last game vs the Warriors...
1Q 5:02 Dante Cunningham enters the game for DeMarcus Cousins
2Q 12:00 DeMarcus Cousins enters the game for Anthony Davis
3Q 5:24 Darius Miller enters the game for Anthony Davis
3Q 0:54 Anthony Davis enters the game for DeMarcus Cousins....Cousins had 4 fouls so Davis came in slightly earlier than usual so that Cousins wouldn't pick up his 5th

[td450]

It’s too bad Boogie wasn’t coached by a CBS-level coach his entire career. If he was, he’d be viewed as a top-3 player.

Boogie isn't a victim of chaos. He is the chaos.

Coaches that have any say in the matter don't want him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HH9IiHMD2M

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Just checking what the final haul from the trade was (Hield, Justin Jackson, Giles, Galloway, Evans), after seeing Cousins argue with refs after two no-calls, not running back on D, in two critical spots in the game. Anthony Davis was sitting on the bench at the time and must've been pulling his hair out.

He had a couple bone-head plays where he dribbled like Jamal Crawford at the three point line, threw up two late shot clock heaves after 20 seconds of you-are-fooling-no-one dribbling.

I would love to know what Danny offered for him, but it can't have been much, and my word that now looks like a savvy not-move in hindsight..

The guy is averaging 25.5 points / 12.6 rebounds / 5.4 assists / 1.7 steals / 1.6 blocks / .521 eFG%. His team is above .500 and would currently make the playoffs, despite a really poorly-constructed roster.  He’s got, by far, the best DRtg on his team.

But yeah, he picks up a tech on average every 3 or 4 games, the same as Dray Green.

He's also a ball stopper, who sulks, gives inconsistent effort, and take a lot of plays off defensively.

Tons of talent, but not a winning player.

On that point (but with data), on a team with little talent beyond Davis, Cousins is managing a measly -2.4 point net plus-minus this year. He makes the Pelicans worse overall, at least so far this season.

The Pelicans are 8 points worse offensively with him on the floor despite his gaudy numbers, mostly because they become a much less efficient scoring team and turn it over more. They are about 5 points better on D with Cousins out there. (But see Davis's numbers below).

Meanwhile the Pels are a +6 on offense and a +12 on defense with Davis on the floor, for an overall +17 net plus-minus. Davis makes them better in terms of efficiency, rebounding, passing, you name it. And makes their opponents significantly worse.

It's surprising to me that these differences could be so big given that these two share the floor a lot.

don't have any stats and I have only seen a few of their games but IIRC Cousins usually plays the first Q and Davis rest early to start the 2nd while Cous rests. The difference may come during times like that, Davis plays the bench opponents early in the 2nd Q while Cousins may be playing starters or the top bench guys (I don't know if it's the same rotation 2nd half but could add to it if so).

They swap roles in the second half. Mid-3Q Cousins stays, Davis rests, and Davis replaces Cousins to begin the 4th.

that isn't swapping. That is exactly the same thing

I misread what was written. In fact, what I usually see is the following:
1Q Davis stays
2Q Cousins replaces Davis to start the quarter
3Q Cousins stays
4Q Davis replaces Cousins to start the quarter

This was also evident in their last game vs the Warriors...
1Q 5:02 Dante Cunningham enters the game for DeMarcus Cousins
2Q 12:00 DeMarcus Cousins enters the game for Anthony Davis
3Q 5:24 Darius Miller enters the game for Anthony Davis
3Q 0:54 Anthony Davis enters the game for DeMarcus Cousins....Cousins had 4 fouls so Davis came in slightly earlier than usual so that Cousins wouldn't pick up his 5th

Didn't watch that game, I didn't say I was right, but the games I watched, Davis was subbed before Cousins who played the whole first (or pretty close). Davis came back in to start the second. I also said I want sure if it was the same rotation in the 2nd half.

As I said in my original post, it may not be that way for all their games but it was that way in the few games I watched.

[spikelovetheCelts]

Cousins never makes the playoffs even with davis. Kind of sad. That isn't a top player in my book. His defense leaves a lot to be desired

Even with Davis? Boogie played 17 games for NOP last season. This year, they’re above .500 and are on track to make the playoffs, despite really poor coaching, management and roster construction.

It’s too bad Boogie wasn’t coached by a CBS-level coach his entire career. If he was, he’d be viewed as a top-3 player.

Everyone on Celtic Blog can name 10 players they want the ball in their hands at the end of the game over Boogie. Boogie is a top ten talent but not "Player". It is a big difference. He will not be on the Celtics based on what is between the ears.

since when is having the ball in your hands a sign of being a better player.  I'd trust IT with the ball in his hand at the end of the game more than most everyone else in the league, it doesn't mean IT is a better player then a lot of those guys.

Since Basketball started. Winning Top Players take the last shot, period.

[gouki88]

Cousins never makes the playoffs even with davis. Kind of sad. That isn't a top player in my book. His defense leaves a lot to be desired

Even with Davis? Boogie played 17 games for NOP last season. This year, they’re above .500 and are on track to make the playoffs, despite really poor coaching, management and roster construction.

It’s too bad Boogie wasn’t coached by a CBS-level coach his entire career. If he was, he’d be viewed as a top-3 player.

Everyone on Celtic Blog can name 10 players they want the ball in their hands at the end of the game over Boogie. Boogie is a top ten talent but not "Player". It is a big difference. He will not be on the Celtics based on what is between the ears.

since when is having the ball in your hands a sign of being a better player.  I'd trust IT with the ball in his hand at the end of the game more than most everyone else in the league, it doesn't mean IT is a better player then a lot of those guys.

Since Basketball started. Winning Top Players take the last shot, period.

Is Kobe superior to Bill?

[Roy H.]

It’s too bad Boogie wasn’t coached by a CBS-level coach his entire career. If he was, he’d be viewed as a top-3 player.

Boogie isn't a victim of chaos. He is the chaos.

Coaches that have any say in the matter don't want him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HH9IiHMD2M

What quality coach (in his coaching prime) has Cousins had? 

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Cousins never makes the playoffs even with davis. Kind of sad. That isn't a top player in my book. His defense leaves a lot to be desired

Even with Davis? Boogie played 17 games for NOP last season. This year, they’re above .500 and are on track to make the playoffs, despite really poor coaching, management and roster construction.

It’s too bad Boogie wasn’t coached by a CBS-level coach his entire career. If he was, he’d be viewed as a top-3 player.

Everyone on Celtic Blog can name 10 players they want the ball in their hands at the end of the game over Boogie. Boogie is a top ten talent but not "Player". It is a big difference. He will not be on the Celtics based on what is between the ears.

since when is having the ball in your hands a sign of being a better player.  I'd trust IT with the ball in his hand at the end of the game more than most everyone else in the league, it doesn't mean IT is a better player then a lot of those guys.

Since Basketball started. Winning Top Players take the last shot, period.

I would take IT4 to shoot it over LBJ and it doesn't get more top than him. LBJ has grown into the taker and maker at times but I remember when they were mad at him and wanted Wade or Bosh to take the last shots over LBJ when he first went to Mia.
 
Big shot Bob was never close to being a top player on his own teams but his last shots have him sitting pretty in bling.

[spikelovetheCelts]

Cousins never makes the playoffs even with davis. Kind of sad. That isn't a top player in my book. His defense leaves a lot to be desired

Even with Davis? Boogie played 17 games for NOP last season. This year, they’re above .500 and are on track to make the playoffs, despite really poor coaching, management and roster construction.

It’s too bad Boogie wasn’t coached by a CBS-level coach his entire career. If he was, he’d be viewed as a top-3 player.

Everyone on Celtic Blog can name 10 players they want the ball in their hands at the end of the game over Boogie. Boogie is a top ten talent but not "Player". It is a big difference. He will not be on the Celtics based on what is between the ears.

since when is having the ball in your hands a sign of being a better player.  I'd trust IT with the ball in his hand at the end of the game more than most everyone else in the league, it doesn't mean IT is a better player then a lot of those guys.

Since Basketball started. Winning Top Players take the last shot, period.

Is Kobe superior to Bill?

As and an Athlete yes. As a basketball player no but he would be in the starting 5 and would take the last shot.

[Celtics4ever]

I have seen Cousins up close and in person in KY.   I think he is a verified knucklehead but a very talented basketball player.   A person can be both.  I see him going to the Cavs for Thompson and some pieces and the Brooklyn pick.