Author Topic: Who are the 7 players Steven's mentioned today.  (Read 7670 times)

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Re: Who are the 7 players Steven's mentioned today.
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2016, 12:38:37 AM »

Offline Chris22

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I'll be happy with Dunn, Chriss, or Brown.
No Bender, please.

Re: Who are the 7 players Steven's mentioned today.
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2016, 12:43:58 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Poeltl would have a legit chance at playing next season somthing most of these guys cant say.

Yeah right.  If Poeltl the Turtle actually got to play it would only be because he had developed a 3 point shot ::).

Poeltl is a 7'1" guy who defends the rim like a 7'0" guy and defends the perimeter like a 6'8" guy.  Brad and Danny seem to be obsessed with guys who offer that type of defensive versatility. 

Brad / Danny seem to love the idea of building a defense in which every single player has the ability to switch onto 2 or 3 positions, and throwing Poeltl in the mix at center would be fit right in to that philosophy.

You also need to consider that Amir, Jerebko, Sullinger and Zeller are all either free agents or non-guaranteed going in to this season, leaving Olynyk (recovering from shoulder surgery) and Mickey as the only bigs who are guaranteed into next season.  If Poeltl was drafted then chances are he would be Boston's starter from day one.

I'm sure Danny's position in the free agency / trade market (discussions he's had with players, etc) will have some impact on who he goes for too.  If there's a starting caliber center he has his eye on he probably won't draft someone like Poeltl.  If there isn't one he specifically likes (or things he can get) then he might seriously consider it.

Re: Who are the 7 players Steven's mentioned today.
« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2016, 12:48:46 AM »

Offline BDeCosta26

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Listening to Stevens logic, I guess he is content on winning 45 games a year until his contract runs out or when he goes back to Indy.

I understand homework needs to be done on these players but anything short of dealing that pick is a complete embarrassment to the paying fan.

Find an established player on the market and make a deal!

Anything short of dealing that pick is an embarrassment?!

We have the THIRD pick in the draft. We have the 5th youngest team in the league, and assets coming out of our butts. Making the pick isn't an embarrassment by any means, it's deciding that the deals available to you aren't worth their cost

For example, I'd rather Ainge make the pick than trade #3 and whatever else for Okafor. Danny Ainge doesn't AND shouldn't make a deal just to appease a subset of impatient fans.

Re: Who are the 7 players Steven's mentioned today.
« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2016, 12:52:13 AM »

Online KG Living Legend

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 From the herald today.

In the event they make and keep the third overall pick, the Celts have narrowed their thoughts to, according to Stevens, “seven or eight” players.

“I’ve got a good idea when I talk to Danny and the front office about who they’re really targeting and focused on as far as those seven or eight guys,” Stevens said. “But we’ve got so many picks that you can’t stop there.


 So let's speculate on who the seven or eight players is.
is he referring to 7-8 options they like at #3?  Does that mean pick 10 is roughly the same as pick 3 in this draft ?


 He meant 7 players at pick three the have it narrowed down to. I don't think #10 = #3.

 He went onto say they have more picks so the work is not done yet. He also said he's learned at the top of the draft especially it's BPA no Matter what and you build around that top talent.

Re: Who are the 7 players Steven's mentioned today.
« Reply #34 on: June 07, 2016, 12:52:44 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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Poeltl would have a legit chance at playing next season somthing most of these guys cant say.

Yeah right.  If Poeltl the Turtle actually got to play it would only be because he had developed a 3 point shot ::).

Poeltl is a 7'1" guy who defends the rim like a 7'0" guy and defends the perimeter like a 6'8" guy.  Brad and Danny seem to be obsessed with guys who offer that type of defensive versatility. 

Brad / Danny seem to love the idea of building a defense in which every single player has the ability to switch onto 2 or 3 positions, and throwing Poeltl in the mix at center would be fit right in to that philosophy.

You also need to consider that Amir, Jerebko, Sullinger and Zeller are all either free agents or non-guaranteed going in to this season, leaving Olynyk (recovering from shoulder surgery) and Mickey as the only bigs who are guaranteed into next season.  If Poeltl was drafted then chances are he would be Boston's starter from day one.

I'm sure Danny's position in the free agency / trade market (discussions he's had with players, etc) will have some impact on who he goes for too.  If there's a starting caliber center he has his eye on he probably won't draft someone like Poeltl.  If there isn't one he specifically likes (or things he can get) then he might seriously consider it.

Maybe in the d-league.

Re: Who are the 7 players Steven's mentioned today.
« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2016, 12:53:51 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Assuming he's leaving Ingram and Simmons out of the 8 players, I'd guess:

Bender
Brown
Hield
Dunn
Murray
Chriss

With
Poeltl, Deytona Davis or Labissiere as wildcards on the outside looking in.

He wants guys with work ethic. To me that's one of Brown, Murray or Hield, possibly Bender.

Kris Dunn doesn't fit the work ethic mantra?  He works with quite intensity (well, from what I've read, anyway).

Yeah, Dunn is known as being one of the better prospects in the lottery when it comes to work ethic and intangibles.

In fact outside of Simmons and Ingram, the top 8 or so guys in this draft are all high character guys, which is rare.  It's a great thing, and probably has a lot to do with thy Stevens is reportedly looking at 6 or 7 guys with the pick.  Really not a questionable character until you get to Chriss and Labissiere.

Re: Who are the 7 players Steven's mentioned today.
« Reply #36 on: June 07, 2016, 12:54:04 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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 From the herald today.

In the event they make and keep the third overall pick, the Celts have narrowed their thoughts to, according to Stevens, “seven or eight” players.

“I’ve got a good idea when I talk to Danny and the front office about who they’re really targeting and focused on as far as those seven or eight guys,” Stevens said. “But we’ve got so many picks that you can’t stop there.


 So let's speculate on who the seven or eight players is.
is he referring to 7-8 options they like at #3?  Does that mean pick 10 is roughly the same as pick 3 in this draft ?


 He meant 7 players at pick three the have it narrowed down to. I don't think #10 = #3.

 He went onto say they have more picks so the work is not done yet. He also said he's learned at the top of the draft especially it's BPA no Matter what and you build around that top talent.

HE LEARNED THAT!?  Good grief.

Re: Who are the 7 players Steven's mentioned today.
« Reply #37 on: June 07, 2016, 12:59:25 AM »

Offline chambers

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Assuming he's leaving Ingram and Simmons out of the 8 players, I'd guess:

Bender
Brown
Hield
Dunn
Murray
Chriss

With
Poeltl, Deytona Davis or Labissiere as wildcards on the outside looking in.

He wants guys with work ethic. To me that's one of Brown, Murray or Hield, possibly Bender.

Kris Dunn doesn't fit the work ethic mantra?  He works with quite intensity (well, from what I've read, anyway).

Oh he certainly does, but when he refuses to work out for us and not give us medicals I'm not sure he's a legit candidate for us.
He's  a workhorse though for sure.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Who are the 7 players Steven's mentioned today.
« Reply #38 on: June 07, 2016, 01:35:34 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Poeltl would have a legit chance at playing next season somthing most of these guys cant say.

Yeah right.  If Poeltl the Turtle actually got to play it would only be because he had developed a 3 point shot ::).

Poeltl is a 7'1" guy who defends the rim like a 7'0" guy and defends the perimeter like a 6'8" guy.  Brad and Danny seem to be obsessed with guys who offer that type of defensive versatility. 

Brad / Danny seem to love the idea of building a defense in which every single player has the ability to switch onto 2 or 3 positions, and throwing Poeltl in the mix at center would be fit right in to that philosophy.

You also need to consider that Amir, Jerebko, Sullinger and Zeller are all either free agents or non-guaranteed going in to this season, leaving Olynyk (recovering from shoulder surgery) and Mickey as the only bigs who are guaranteed into next season.  If Poeltl was drafted then chances are he would be Boston's starter from day one.

I'm sure Danny's position in the free agency / trade market (discussions he's had with players, etc) will have some impact on who he goes for too.  If there's a starting caliber center he has his eye on he probably won't draft someone like Poeltl.  If there isn't one he specifically likes (or things he can get) then he might seriously consider it.

Maybe in the d-league.

- Do you believe we're going in to next season with a starting frontcort of Olynyk and Mickey?
- Do you think Boston is going to use $12M in cap space to guarantee Amir's second year?
- Do you think Jerebko is going to start for us over the course of a season?

Or do you seriously believe we are going to re-sign Sullinger after the laughable joke of a showing he gave us in the playoffs last year?

Boston has the #3 pick.  You don't take a guy that high in the draft only to let him hibernate in the D League for years.  There's a reason why Marcus Smart got significant playing time even though  he was sharing the backcourt with the likes of Rajon Rondo, Isaiah Thomas and Avery Bradley.  Top 10 picks tend to get playing time in their rookie years - just look at Justice Winslow, Frank Kaminsky, Devin Booker, etc.  The only exceptions are maybe Bender and Ingram (for physical reasons) - though even Ingram will most likely get significant playing time as a rookie.

Poeltl is much like Smart was in that he is already NBA-ready physically and defensively, it's really only his offensive game that's going to need development.

To put it into perspective, here is the Net Rating for the top rated prospects who played in college:

Ben Simmons: +18.8
Brandon Ingram: +10.3
Jaylen Brown: +1.3
Buddy Hield: +22.3
Jamal Murray: +17.6
Kris Dunn: +11.3
Jakob Poeltl: +30.3
Henry Ellenson: +7.8
Skal LAbissiere: +10.9
Marquese Chriss: +9.8
Deyonta Davis: +30.5

Poeltl not only put up excellent stats (20.4 Points, 10.7 rebounds, 2.2 assists, 0.9 steals, 1.8 blocks Per 36 along with 64% FG), the advanced stats show that he also had a very positive impact on his team's success as well.  The Celtics brass tend to love guys like that.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2016, 01:56:17 AM by crimson_stallion »

Re: Who are the 7 players Steven's mentioned today.
« Reply #39 on: June 07, 2016, 01:36:32 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Is Steven's some kind of new hipster bar I haven't heard of?
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Who are the 7 players Steven's mentioned today.
« Reply #40 on: June 07, 2016, 03:21:05 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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- Do you believe we're going in to next season with a starting frontcort of Olynyk and Mickey?
- Do you think Boston is going to use $12M in cap space to guarantee Amir's second year?
- Do you think Jerebko is going to start for us over the course of a season?

Or do you seriously believe we are going to re-sign Sullinger after the laughable joke of a showing he gave us in the playoffs last year?

Boston has the #3 pick.  You don't take a guy that high in the draft only to let him hibernate in the D League for years.  There's a reason why Marcus Smart got significant playing time even though  he was sharing the backcourt with the likes of Rajon Rondo, Isaiah Thomas and Avery Bradley.  Top 10 picks tend to get playing time in their rookie years - just look at Justice Winslow, Frank Kaminsky, Devin Booker, etc.  The only exceptions are maybe Bender and Ingram (for physical reasons) - though even Ingram will most likely get significant playing time as a rookie.

Poeltl is much like Smart was in that he is already NBA-ready physically and defensively, it's really only his offensive game that's going to need development.

To put it into perspective, here is the Net Rating for the top rated prospects who played in college:

Ben Simmons: +18.8
Brandon Ingram: +10.3
Jaylen Brown: +1.3
Buddy Hield: +22.3
Jamal Murray: +17.6
Kris Dunn: +11.3
Jakob Poeltl: +30.3
Henry Ellenson: +7.8
Skal LAbissiere: +10.9
Marquese Chriss: +9.8
Deyonta Davis: +30.5

Poeltl not only put up excellent stats (20.4 Points, 10.7 rebounds, 2.2 assists, 0.9 steals, 1.8 blocks Per 36 along with 64% FG), the advanced stats show that he also had a very positive impact on his team's success as well.  The Celtics brass tend to love guys like that.

Regarding Olynyk and Mickey, who knows?  Mickey will still be in the d-league, most likely, and Stevens likes 'small ball' ::) and has had no problem trotting out ridiculously minuscule lineups with Smart at the 4 :o at times, iirc, plus KO can't defend, rebound, post up, get out of his own head with the incessant pump faking, and routinely gets in foul trouble.  Either way, neither guy will be on the court for long, if history is any indication.

As for Amir, I hope not - please don't pick up his option and bring him back, and the same goes for Swedish Meatballs, but I can definitely see them sticking around, unfortunately, and, yes, I can see Jerebko starting because why not, lol?  Ugh.  I also hope that Sully is gone.  Don't even make him an offer.  If you can get a second round pick or something like that in a sign-and-trade, fine, but if not, just let him walk.  Please.  He should have been gone 3 years ago after his domestic violence 'incident', but Ainge always says that he values 'high character guys', so I guess that Sully meets that standard?  Ugh.

Also, I'm not sure that I would compare Poeltl to Smart in terms of offensive ability.  If this had been a year ago during the former's freshman campaign, I might have agreed, but the turtle has made tremendous improvement in his offensive repertoire.  He and Smart couldn't be more different in that category.

In terms of Net Rating, I don't even know what that is, and I think that advanced stats are a load of bunk, but maybe I'm just being ignorant, so if you feel that net rating should be a determining factor when deciding on whom to draft, I'm all ears. 

What I do know, however (which is not much about anything, really), is that Marcus Smart was picked at least in part because of his advanced stats like steal percentage or whatever, but that did not translate to him being any kind of star, except on Shaqtin' A Fool.  There is no on base percentage for basketball, no matter how hard everyone tries to keep coming up with some method to discover such an indicator of success, so I'd really appreciate it if we would stop drafting players based on 'analytics' and workouts.  Just watch the game film - it doesn't lie.

Besides, by that very measurement, wouldn't Deyonta Davis, who played only 18.6 mpg and started fewer than half of Michigan State's games (16, to be exact), be the better choice, despite concerns with his motor, personality, and work ethic?  I just think that we need to be careful in trying to quantify a sport with so many variables and not make a pick based solely on numbers.

It's also worth pointing out that Stevens' offensive philosophy, ie, chuck as many 3s as possible regardless of the fact that we don't nearly have anywhere near the kind of personnel needed to successfully implement such an approach, doesn't seem to have a place for traditional big men or even midrange jumpers ::), so expecting him to suddenly turn about face as far as our 'style of play' is concerned just because we finally have a real center is quite the hope, and I wouldn't exactly hold my breath about it changing anytime soon.

I agree that a #3 pick shouldn't be kept in the d-league, unless of course we're talking about Fender Bender who looks like the Croatian version of James Vanderbeek (not that that means anything other than whatever show on which he next appears will soon be cancelled), if a large conglomerate of this community is to be believed (as you know, we have one group saying Bender's Awesome!, while the other screams Bender Sucks!, and I'm like 'we don't have enough information as fans to come to any kind of reasonable conclusion pertaining to whether or not he can even play'), but on the other hand, we have a former #6 pick in Marcus Smart whose offensive ability is, at best, on the d-league level, and yet he keeps getting playing time despite routinely making dumb mistakes, taking horrible shots, and egregiously flopping, so I don't know what kind of precedent that sets as far as someone like Poeltl is concerned.

Sidebar - are you on #teamjakob (sarcasm)?

Re: Who are the 7 players Steven's mentioned today.
« Reply #41 on: June 07, 2016, 04:02:51 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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- Do you believe we're going in to next season with a starting frontcort of Olynyk and Mickey?
- Do you think Boston is going to use $12M in cap space to guarantee Amir's second year?
- Do you think Jerebko is going to start for us over the course of a season?

Or do you seriously believe we are going to re-sign Sullinger after the laughable joke of a showing he gave us in the playoffs last year?

Boston has the #3 pick.  You don't take a guy that high in the draft only to let him hibernate in the D League for years.  There's a reason why Marcus Smart got significant playing time even though  he was sharing the backcourt with the likes of Rajon Rondo, Isaiah Thomas and Avery Bradley.  Top 10 picks tend to get playing time in their rookie years - just look at Justice Winslow, Frank Kaminsky, Devin Booker, etc.  The only exceptions are maybe Bender and Ingram (for physical reasons) - though even Ingram will most likely get significant playing time as a rookie.

Poeltl is much like Smart was in that he is already NBA-ready physically and defensively, it's really only his offensive game that's going to need development.

To put it into perspective, here is the Net Rating for the top rated prospects who played in college:

Ben Simmons: +18.8
Brandon Ingram: +10.3
Jaylen Brown: +1.3
Buddy Hield: +22.3
Jamal Murray: +17.6
Kris Dunn: +11.3
Jakob Poeltl: +30.3
Henry Ellenson: +7.8
Skal LAbissiere: +10.9
Marquese Chriss: +9.8
Deyonta Davis: +30.5

Poeltl not only put up excellent stats (20.4 Points, 10.7 rebounds, 2.2 assists, 0.9 steals, 1.8 blocks Per 36 along with 64% FG), the advanced stats show that he also had a very positive impact on his team's success as well.  The Celtics brass tend to love guys like that.

Regarding Olynyk and Mickey, who knows?  Mickey will still be in the d-league, most likely, and Stevens likes 'small ball' ::) and has had no problem trotting out ridiculously minuscule lineups with Smart at the 4 :o at times, iirc, plus KO can't defend, rebound, post up, get out of his own head with the incessant pump faking, and routinely gets in foul trouble.  Either way, neither guy will be on the court for long, if history is any indication.

As for Amir, I hope not - please don't pick up his option and bring him back, and the same goes for Swedish Meatballs, but I can definitely see them sticking around, unfortunately, and, yes, I can see Jerebko starting because why not, lol?  Ugh.  I also hope that Sully is gone.  Don't even make him an offer.  If you can get a second round pick or something like that in a sign-and-trade, fine, but if not, just let him walk.  Please.  He should have been gone 3 years ago after his domestic violence 'incident', but Ainge always says that he values 'high character guys', so I guess that Sully meets that standard?  Ugh.

Also, I'm not sure that I would compare Poeltl to Smart in terms of offensive ability.  If this had been a year ago during the former's freshman campaign, I might have agreed, but the turtle has made tremendous improvement in his offensive repertoire.  He and Smart couldn't be more different in that category.

In terms of Net Rating, I don't even know what that is, and I think that advanced stats are a load of bunk, but maybe I'm just being ignorant, so if you feel that net rating should be a determining factor when deciding on whom to draft, I'm all ears. 

What I do know, however (which is not much about anything, really), is that Marcus Smart was picked at least in part because of his advanced stats like steal percentage or whatever, but that did not translate to him being any kind of star, except on Shaqtin' A Fool.  There is no on base percentage for basketball, no matter how hard everyone tries to keep coming up with some method to discover such an indicator of success, so I'd really appreciate it if we would stop drafting players based on 'analytics' and workouts.  Just watch the game film - it doesn't lie.

Besides, by that very measurement, wouldn't Deyonta Davis, who played only 18.6 mpg and started fewer than half of Michigan State's games (16, to be exact), be the better choice, despite concerns with his motor, personality, and work ethic?  I just think that we need to be careful in trying to quantify a sport with so many variables and not make a pick based solely on numbers.

It's also worth pointing out that Stevens' offensive philosophy, ie, chuck as many 3s as possible regardless of the fact that we don't nearly have anywhere near the kind of personnel needed to successfully implement such an approach, doesn't seem to have a place for traditional big men or even midrange jumpers ::), so expecting him to suddenly turn about face as far as our 'style of play' is concerned just because we finally have a real center is quite the hope, and I wouldn't exactly hold my breath about it changing anytime soon.

I agree that a #3 pick shouldn't be kept in the d-league, unless of course we're talking about Fender Bender who looks like the Croatian version of James Vanderbeek (not that that means anything other than whatever show on which he next appears will soon be cancelled), if a large conglomerate of this community is to be believed (as you know, we have one group saying Bender's Awesome!, while the other screams Bender Sucks!, and I'm like 'we don't have enough information as fans to come to any kind of reasonable conclusion pertaining to whether or not he can even play'), but on the other hand, we have a former #6 pick in Marcus Smart whose offensive ability is, at best, on the d-league level, and yet he keeps getting playing time despite routinely making dumb mistakes, taking horrible shots, and egregiously flopping, so I don't know what kind of precedent that sets as far as someone like Poeltl is concerned.

Sidebar - are you on #teamjakob (sarcasm)?

A stat like net rating isn't the be-all-end-all, but a net rating of +30 basically indicates that Poeltl's team outscored their opponents by 30 points Per 100 Possessions when he was on the court. 

It's a useful stat that can give some insight into how a certain player impacts the game when they are on the court from a "helping your team win" perspective.

It's a nice perspect to be able to use in combination with your regular box score numbers.  I think guys who dominate with both the box score numbers AND the advanced stats...it's probably a good sign.