How Good Will Saric Be?

[Lucky17]

Dirk is really the only modern day superstar from Europe (though the Gasol brothers are great)

http://hoopshype.com/2015/09/21/the-top-25-european-players-ever/#slideIdslide-0

Perhaps you're too young to have seen many of these guys play, but I see about a dozen bona fide "superstars" here.

Funnily enough, I actually looked at that exact same article to make sure I wasn't forgetting anyone. One point that may have caused confusion is that by Modern I meant the last 20 years. I also do remember everyone on that list and watched almost all of them play. I am curious even if we extend it back which players you think were superstars? I am also a bit bewildered by how you see a dozen bona fide superstars here?

Dragic - no
Calderon - no
Juan Navaroo- no
Daniel Galinari - no
Dejan Bodiroga - no
Mehmet Okur - no
Predrag Danilovic - no
Turkoglu - No
Dino Radja - no (although I did love him for two season)
Sarunas Marciulionis - good player but no
Rik Smits - no
Ilgauskas - no, made a few all star games but probably never called a superstar
Kirilenko - fun to watch, but no
Kukoc - near star, but not superstar
Noah - No
Marc Gasol - Star for sure (and a great player), but not a superstar
Schremph - No, briefly a star but never a superstar
Vlade Divac - not a superstar
Sabonis - Would have been, but came over injured on back end of career
Predrag Stojakovic - not a superstar
Drazen Petrovic. - Had a chance but tragically died before we could see his career
Tony Parker - an all star and great player, but never a superstar
Pau Gasol - closest besides Dirk, but just wasn't quite ever a number 1 player
Dirk - Yes a superstar, led his team to a title as clear number 1, top 10 all time scoring.

I 100% stand by my comments and would love to know how you see a dozen superstars on that list?  (or were you just kidding)

I consider an All-Star player who has competed for or won championships throughout his career to be a superstar.

Dirk, both Gasols, Parker, Schrempf, Kukoc, Smits, and Ilgauskas were all superstars, and I would consider Drazen and Sabonis up there too.

[celticsclay]

Dirk is really the only modern day superstar from Europe (though the Gasol brothers are great)

http://hoopshype.com/2015/09/21/the-top-25-european-players-ever/#slideIdslide-0

Perhaps you're too young to have seen many of these guys play, but I see about a dozen bona fide "superstars" here.

Funnily enough, I actually looked at that exact same article to make sure I wasn't forgetting anyone. One point that may have caused confusion is that by Modern I meant the last 20 years. I also do remember everyone on that list and watched almost all of them play. I am curious even if we extend it back which players you think were superstars? I am also a bit bewildered by how you see a dozen bona fide superstars here?

Dragic - no
Calderon - no
Juan Navaroo- no
Daniel Galinari - no
Dejan Bodiroga - no
Mehmet Okur - no
Predrag Danilovic - no
Turkoglu - No
Dino Radja - no (although I did love him for two season)
Sarunas Marciulionis - good player but no
Rik Smits - no
Ilgauskas - no, made a few all star games but probably never called a superstar
Kirilenko - fun to watch, but no
Kukoc - near star, but not superstar
Noah - No
Marc Gasol - Star for sure (and a great player), but not a superstar
Schremph - No, briefly a star but never a superstar
Vlade Divac - not a superstar
Sabonis - Would have been, but came over injured on back end of career
Predrag Stojakovic - not a superstar
Drazen Petrovic. - Had a chance but tragically died before we could see his career
Tony Parker - an all star and great player, but never a superstar
Pau Gasol - closest besides Dirk, but just wasn't quite ever a number 1 player
Dirk - Yes a superstar, led his team to a title as clear number 1, top 10 all time scoring.

I 100% stand by my comments and would love to know how you see a dozen superstars on that list?  (or were you just kidding)

I consider an All-Star player who has competed for or won championships throughout his career to be a superstar.

Dirk, both Gasols, Parker, Schrempf, Kukoc, Smits, and Ilgauskas were all superstars, and I would consider Drazen and Sabonis up there too.

I mean not to give you a hard time, but that is not how the average NBA commentator, analyst, coach or player refers to a superstar. I think it would be a pretty short list of time you heard one of these people calls Ilgauskas a superstar. I mean everybody around the celtics says we need a star, or better a superstar, but if we signed prime Ilgauskas (17.5 points, 7.5 rebounds, 30mpg) nobody would say we had landed a superstar. Some of these guys are barely even all-stars. Smits made one, Sabonis never did and Kukoc never did. You don't think calling these guys superstars is a crazy stretch?

[BitterJim]

I'd be interested to hear from an expert where he'd go in this draft.  I doubt anyone here is really qualified to make an estimate.  I've just read that he's a better prospect than Bender so that might give us a small idea.

I mean I'm pretty sure Chad Ford said that Mirotic would be a top 5 pick in the 2014 NBA draft
That means they viewed him as being a better prospect than the majority of Smart, Randle, Gordon and Exum. I don't think, with the possible exception of Exum cause of injuries, that any of those teams would pick up the phone to trade those guys for Mirotic. People are complaining about Hield's age cause he is a few years older than a lot of the other prospects. Saric is 6 months younger and may not come over this season.

BTW I kind of put the option of Superstar in as a joke. Dirk is really the only modern day superstar from Europe (though the Gasol brothers are great) and even he was a number 8 pick in a time when there was a lot more fear of european players. The idea that Saric drafted at the end of the lottery and staying in Europe for a few years come over and becomes a superstar seems like an incredible longshot.

I am curious what players you would call a superstar that are currently from Europe
I would say

James
Curry
Durant
Westbrook
Harden
Antonio Davis
Chris Paul
Blake Griffin
Aldridge
 and a perhaps a very few select others would be considered superstars.

A few years back the list would have included
Ray Allen
KG
Pierce
Kobe
Duncan
dirk nowitzki
Wade
Bosh
and a few others

Pau in particular was close but he was always clearly the second best player on the Lakers and never had a period where he was clearly playing as a 1. If you disagree with that, please explain where you think I am missing. However, your current posts is just garbage that contributes nothing to the board. Please contribute more than this in the future.

Seriously, dude?  In what way is that necessary?  This part of your current post is just garbage that contributes nothing to the board. Please contribute better than this in the future.

I get you are trying to be cute or something here by repeating my comments. I think the overwhelming majority of people on this board would agree that if you disagree with someone it is much better for the board and everyone reading it to supply a written reply explaining why you disagree. Responding with an image of a guy slapping his head contributes nothing to the conversation because the reader has no idea why the person is slapping their head (so there is no further discussion) and also it is calling someone an idiot through an image. If everyone did this the board would be awful (not to mention I would have to imagine it is in the ballpark of violating the forum rules of not insulting and belittling other posters.

I think it is fair to say that adding an insulting image and no response to a post really is garbage and makes the board less appealing to read. Thankfully the majority of posters don't do this kind of stuff cause it would make it unreadable (if for no other reason than the conversations would be filled by disruptive images)

Edit: Ill also add in the past at one point I believe I responded to someone I disagreed on this forum with similarly with an animation suggesting they were dumb and after seeing how bad the thread got (and how it killed the thread) I regretted making the posts instead of verbalizing my point.

Just to be clear, you believe posting a Calvin and Hobbes picture is the same as insulting someone, but that literally saying that everything someone posts is garbage isn't?

[Lucky17]

Dirk is really the only modern day superstar from Europe (though the Gasol brothers are great)

http://hoopshype.com/2015/09/21/the-top-25-european-players-ever/#slideIdslide-0

Perhaps you're too young to have seen many of these guys play, but I see about a dozen bona fide "superstars" here.

Funnily enough, I actually looked at that exact same article to make sure I wasn't forgetting anyone. One point that may have caused confusion is that by Modern I meant the last 20 years. I also do remember everyone on that list and watched almost all of them play. I am curious even if we extend it back which players you think were superstars? I am also a bit bewildered by how you see a dozen bona fide superstars here?

Dragic - no
Calderon - no
Juan Navaroo- no
Daniel Galinari - no
Dejan Bodiroga - no
Mehmet Okur - no
Predrag Danilovic - no
Turkoglu - No
Dino Radja - no (although I did love him for two season)
Sarunas Marciulionis - good player but no
Rik Smits - no
Ilgauskas - no, made a few all star games but probably never called a superstar
Kirilenko - fun to watch, but no
Kukoc - near star, but not superstar
Noah - No
Marc Gasol - Star for sure (and a great player), but not a superstar
Schremph - No, briefly a star but never a superstar
Vlade Divac - not a superstar
Sabonis - Would have been, but came over injured on back end of career
Predrag Stojakovic - not a superstar
Drazen Petrovic. - Had a chance but tragically died before we could see his career
Tony Parker - an all star and great player, but never a superstar
Pau Gasol - closest besides Dirk, but just wasn't quite ever a number 1 player
Dirk - Yes a superstar, led his team to a title as clear number 1, top 10 all time scoring.

I 100% stand by my comments and would love to know how you see a dozen superstars on that list?  (or were you just kidding)

I consider an All-Star player who has competed for or won championships throughout his career to be a superstar.

Dirk, both Gasols, Parker, Schrempf, Kukoc, Smits, and Ilgauskas were all superstars, and I would consider Drazen and Sabonis up there too.

I mean not to give you a hard time, but that is not how the average NBA commentator, analyst, coach or player refers to a superstar. I think it would be a pretty short list of time you heard one of these people calls Ilgauskas a superstar. I mean everybody around the celtics says we need a star, or better a superstar, but if we signed prime Ilgauskas (17.5 points, 7.5 rebounds, 30mpg) nobody would say we had landed a superstar. Some of these guys are barely even all-stars. Smits made one, Sabonis never did and Kukoc never did. You don't think calling these guys superstars is a crazy stretch?

Not really, no. Smits was an All-Star and anchored a Pacers team that went to multiple Finals. Sabonis was already a superstar before coming over to the NBA. Kukoc won multiple rings and won 6MOY. Schrempf won back to back 6MOY awards.

Most of these guys were big men, so perhaps they can't be superstars? None of them were particularly flashy, but all were instrumental to their teams' repeated success. They were elite players.

[LarBrd33]

Any video on Saric from the last year? Stats?  Would be curious to hear how he has developed since he was drafted. I seem to recall his agent (or was it his dad) did not want him to go to Sixers, and had a list of teams he would leave Europe to play for, and it included the Celtics. Am I having a senior moment, or does that sound familiar to you guys??

2014 (age 20 and year drafted)
MPG 32.8
PPG 12.9
RPG 8.3
APG 2.7

2015
MPG 24.4
PPG 9.9
RPG 6.4
APG 2.3

2016
MPG 22.5
PPG 11.7
RPG 5.8
APG 1.5

Numbers wise, it's pretty clear that there has been little to no growth between 20 to 22, which are years that you would expect plenty of development. So I find it ridiculous for one to suggest he would be a top 3 pick this season, since he is now 22 years old and it's debatable if he's even improved since he was drafted.

Why are you showing stats from different leagues and teams?  That would be like showing Terry Rozier's high school stats and comparing it to his NBA stats this season and claiming his game has fallen apart.

Like I said before, I don't dare pretend to be an expert on College of foreign players.  I just know what I've read... and I've read Saric is better than Bender. 

But if you're going to quote stats as proof of something, at least be honest about them.   Here's his per-36 numbers (with leagues and teams for context):  http://i.imgur.com/yA0rmGk.png



Seems to me, his last two seasons he's played for the same team in the same league and he's seen his production rise.  He went from averaging 14.6 points with shooting percentages of  43%/31%/70% to averaging 18.8 points with shooting percentages of 50%/40%/94%... Again, I'm no expert... but is that not improvement?

[celticsclay]

I'd be interested to hear from an expert where he'd go in this draft.  I doubt anyone here is really qualified to make an estimate.  I've just read that he's a better prospect than Bender so that might give us a small idea.

I mean I'm pretty sure Chad Ford said that Mirotic would be a top 5 pick in the 2014 NBA draft
That means they viewed him as being a better prospect than the majority of Smart, Randle, Gordon and Exum. I don't think, with the possible exception of Exum cause of injuries, that any of those teams would pick up the phone to trade those guys for Mirotic. People are complaining about Hield's age cause he is a few years older than a lot of the other prospects. Saric is 6 months younger and may not come over this season.

BTW I kind of put the option of Superstar in as a joke. Dirk is really the only modern day superstar from Europe (though the Gasol brothers are great) and even he was a number 8 pick in a time when there was a lot more fear of european players. The idea that Saric drafted at the end of the lottery and staying in Europe for a few years come over and becomes a superstar seems like an incredible longshot.

I am curious what players you would call a superstar that are currently from Europe
I would say

James
Curry
Durant
Westbrook
Harden
Antonio Davis
Chris Paul
Blake Griffin
Aldridge
 and a perhaps a very few select others would be considered superstars.

A few years back the list would have included
Ray Allen
KG
Pierce
Kobe
Duncan
dirk nowitzki
Wade
Bosh
and a few others

Pau in particular was close but he was always clearly the second best player on the Lakers and never had a period where he was clearly playing as a 1. If you disagree with that, please explain where you think I am missing. However, your current posts is just garbage that contributes nothing to the board. Please contribute more than this in the future.

Seriously, dude?  In what way is that necessary?  This part of your current post is just garbage that contributes nothing to the board. Please contribute better than this in the future.

I get you are trying to be cute or something here by repeating my comments. I think the overwhelming majority of people on this board would agree that if you disagree with someone it is much better for the board and everyone reading it to supply a written reply explaining why you disagree. Responding with an image of a guy slapping his head contributes nothing to the conversation because the reader has no idea why the person is slapping their head (so there is no further discussion) and also it is calling someone an idiot through an image. If everyone did this the board would be awful (not to mention I would have to imagine it is in the ballpark of violating the forum rules of not insulting and belittling other posters.

I think it is fair to say that adding an insulting image and no response to a post really is garbage and makes the board less appealing to read. Thankfully the majority of posters don't do this kind of stuff cause it would make it unreadable (if for no other reason than the conversations would be filled by disruptive images)

Edit: Ill also add in the past at one point I believe I responded to someone I disagreed on this forum with similarly with an animation suggesting they were dumb and after seeing how bad the thread got (and how it killed the thread) I regretted making the posts instead of verbalizing my point.

Just to be clear, you believe posting a Calvin and Hobbes picture is the same as insulting someone, but that literally saying that everything someone posts is garbage isn't?

what are you talking about? I just said that replying with only an image and no text was garbage. It is.

[celticsclay]

I'd be interested to hear from an expert where he'd go in this draft.  I doubt anyone here is really qualified to make an estimate.  I've just read that he's a better prospect than Bender so that might give us a small idea.

I mean I'm pretty sure Chad Ford said that Mirotic would be a top 5 pick in the 2014 NBA draft
That means they viewed him as being a better prospect than the majority of Smart, Randle, Gordon and Exum. I don't think, with the possible exception of Exum cause of injuries, that any of those teams would pick up the phone to trade those guys for Mirotic. People are complaining about Hield's age cause he is a few years older than a lot of the other prospects. Saric is 6 months younger and may not come over this season.

BTW I kind of put the option of Superstar in as a joke. Dirk is really the only modern day superstar from Europe (though the Gasol brothers are great) and even he was a number 8 pick in a time when there was a lot more fear of european players. The idea that Saric drafted at the end of the lottery and staying in Europe for a few years come over and becomes a superstar seems like an incredible longshot.

I am curious what players you would call a superstar that are currently from Europe
I would say

James
Curry
Durant
Westbrook
Harden
Antonio Davis
Chris Paul
Blake Griffin
Aldridge
 and a perhaps a very few select others would be considered superstars.

A few years back the list would have included
Ray Allen
KG
Pierce
Kobe
Duncan
dirk nowitzki
Wade
Bosh
and a few others

Pau in particular was close but he was always clearly the second best player on the Lakers and never had a period where he was clearly playing as a 1. If you disagree with that, please explain where you think I am missing. However, your current posts is just garbage that contributes nothing to the board. Please contribute more than this in the future.

Seriously, dude?  In what way is that necessary?  This part of your current post is just garbage that contributes nothing to the board. Please contribute better than this in the future.

I get you are trying to be cute or something here by repeating my comments. I think the overwhelming majority of people on this board would agree that if you disagree with someone it is much better for the board and everyone reading it to supply a written reply explaining why you disagree. Responding with an image of a guy slapping his head contributes nothing to the conversation because the reader has no idea why the person is slapping their head (so there is no further discussion) and also it is calling someone an idiot through an image. If everyone did this the board would be awful (not to mention I would have to imagine it is in the ballpark of violating the forum rules of not insulting and belittling other posters.

I think it is fair to say that adding an insulting image and no response to a post really is garbage and makes the board less appealing to read. Thankfully the majority of posters don't do this kind of stuff cause it would make it unreadable (if for no other reason than the conversations would be filled by disruptive images)

Edit: Ill also add in the past at one point I believe I responded to someone I disagreed on this forum with similarly with an animation suggesting they were dumb and after seeing how bad the thread got (and how it killed the thread) I regretted making the posts instead of verbalizing my point.

Just to be clear, you believe posting a Calvin and Hobbes picture is the same as insulting someone, but that literally saying that everything someone posts is garbage isn't?

[Eddie20]

Any video on Saric from the last year? Stats?  Would be curious to hear how he has developed since he was drafted. I seem to recall his agent (or was it his dad) did not want him to go to Sixers, and had a list of teams he would leave Europe to play for, and it included the Celtics. Am I having a senior moment, or does that sound familiar to you guys??

2014 (age 20 and year drafted)
MPG 32.8
PPG 12.9
RPG 8.3
APG 2.7

2015
MPG 24.4
PPG 9.9
RPG 6.4
APG 2.3

2016
MPG 22.5
PPG 11.7
RPG 5.8
APG 1.5

Numbers wise, it's pretty clear that there has been little to no growth between 20 to 22, which are years that you would expect plenty of development. So I find it ridiculous for one to suggest he would be a top 3 pick this season, since he is now 22 years old and it's debatable if he's even improved since he was drafted.

Why are you showing stats from different leagues and teams?  That would be like showing Terry Rozier's high school stats and comparing it to his NBA stats this season and claiming his game has fallen apart.

Like I said before, I don't dare pretend to be an expert on College of foreign players.  I just know what I've read... and I've read Saric is better than Bender. 

But if you're going to quote stats as proof of something, at least be honest about them.   Here's his per-36 numbers (with leagues and teams for context):  http://i.imgur.com/yA0rmGk.png



Seems to me, his last two seasons he's played for the same team in the same league and he's seen his production rise.  He went from averaging 14.6 points with shooting percentages of  43%/31%/70% to averaging 18.8 points with shooting percentages of 50%/40%/94%... Again, I'm no expert... but is that not improvement?

Only stats he's had so your Rozier example is asinine.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/dario-saric-1.html

Oh, so you're using per 36 in order to skew numbers. Interesting. Why is that he didn't start in 16 out of 52 games this year and 15 out of 65 games last season? What's going on with that?

As for the bold, that's your problem. You should reconsider where you're reading material from because judging from those thoughts you don't know much. Again, post where you read it. Pretty please. 

[LarBrd33]

Any video on Saric from the last year? Stats?  Would be curious to hear how he has developed since he was drafted. I seem to recall his agent (or was it his dad) did not want him to go to Sixers, and had a list of teams he would leave Europe to play for, and it included the Celtics. Am I having a senior moment, or does that sound familiar to you guys??

2014 (age 20 and year drafted)
MPG 32.8
PPG 12.9
RPG 8.3
APG 2.7

2015
MPG 24.4
PPG 9.9
RPG 6.4
APG 2.3

2016
MPG 22.5
PPG 11.7
RPG 5.8
APG 1.5

Numbers wise, it's pretty clear that there has been little to no growth between 20 to 22, which are years that you would expect plenty of development. So I find it ridiculous for one to suggest he would be a top 3 pick this season, since he is now 22 years old and it's debatable if he's even improved since he was drafted.

Why are you showing stats from different leagues and teams?  That would be like showing Terry Rozier's high school stats and comparing it to his NBA stats this season and claiming his game has fallen apart.

Like I said before, I don't dare pretend to be an expert on College of foreign players.  I just know what I've read... and I've read Saric is better than Bender. 

But if you're going to quote stats as proof of something, at least be honest about them.   Here's his per-36 numbers (with leagues and teams for context):  http://i.imgur.com/yA0rmGk.png



Seems to me, his last two seasons he's played for the same team in the same league and he's seen his production rise.  He went from averaging 14.6 points with shooting percentages of  43%/31%/70% to averaging 18.8 points with shooting percentages of 50%/40%/94%... Again, I'm no expert... but is that not improvement?

Only stats he's had so your Rozier example is asinine.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/dario-saric-1.html

Oh, so you're using per 36 in order to skew numbers. Interesting. Why is that he didn't start in 16 out of 52 games this year and 15 out of 65 games last season? What's going on with that?

As for the bold, that's your problem. You should reconsider where you're reading material from because judging from those thoughts you don't know much. Again, post where you read it. Pretty please. 

Your silence speaks volumes

Clearly Saric has improved.

[PickNRoll]

How does "per 36" skew anything for a guy who plays up to 30 minutes a game but whose minutes vary.  The whole purpose of per 36 stats is to normalize numbers for comparison such that they AREN'T skewed.

[LarBrd33]

How does "per 36" skew anything for a guy who plays up to 30 minutes a game but whose minutes vary.  The whole purpose of per 36 stats is to normalize numbers for comparison such that they AREN'T skewed.

Yeah I mean, obviously if you simply Google "Dario Saric improvement" you'll find multiple articles about his rising shooting percentages.   So it doesn't take a ton of work to dispel the idea that he's remained stagnant since he was drafted (and compared to Larry Bird on this forum). 

As an aside, I wish more folks here were willing to admit their lack of knowledge on certain subjects.   I've never watched a second of Dario Saric playing basketball.  I don't follow College ball at all.   All I can really do is just look at stats and take other people's word for it on how they translate to the pros.  In College, for instance, I'm vaguely aware that certain programs and the level of competition can make a significant impact on statistical output.  It's also clear that College players make SIGNIFICANT leaps from Freshman to Senior years in terms of statistical output.  For that reason, when I see a player like Buddy Hield putting up ridiculous numbers as a Senior, I am naturally skeptical based on the fact that 19 year olds in his draft significantly outplayed Hield's Freshman season... and I have to take other people's word for it when they claim Hield's game might not work on the NBA level.     When it comes to Foreign players, I'm vaguely aware of the fact that the statistical translation is extremely difficult, because Europeans play a very different style of game and the different leagues/micro leagues and global competition can greatly impact the statistical output.  Common sense says you can't simply say "Well he averaged X playing international ball against Olympic teams... and then averaged Y playing in a Turkish League... so clearly that means Z".    Again, I'm no expert, but it seems pretty odd to highlight Saric's 10 games playing for Cibona Zagreb in "Eurocup" competition and compare it to the 24 games he played for Anadolu Efes in the "Euroleague".   From what I can tell, he's played the last two seasons for the same club in the same league and there's been improvement.   He went from shooting 43%/30%/71% to shooting 50%/40%/94% against (presumably) the same competition while playing alongside (presumably) the same players in (presumably) the same system.   So I take that for what it's worth.

[Eddie20]

How does "per 36" skew anything for a guy who plays up to 30 minutes a game but whose minutes vary.  The whole purpose of per 36 stats is to normalize numbers for comparison such that they AREN'T skewed.

Yeah I mean, obviously if you simply Google "Dario Saric improvement" you'll find multiple articles about his rising shooting percentages.   So it doesn't take a ton of work to dispel the idea that he's remained stagnant since he was drafted (and compared to Larry Bird on this forum). 

As an aside, I wish more folks here were willing to admit their lack of knowledge on certain subjects.   I've never watched a second of Dario Saric playing basketball.  I don't follow College ball at all.   All I can really do is just look at stats and take other people's word for it on how they translate to the pros.  In College, for instance, I'm vaguely aware that certain programs and the level of competition can make a significant impact on statistical output.  It's also clear that College players make SIGNIFICANT leaps from Freshman to Senior years in terms of statistical output.  For that reason, when I see a player like Buddy Hield putting up ridiculous numbers as a Senior, I am naturally skeptical based on the fact that 19 year olds in his draft significantly outplayed Hield's Freshman season... and I have to take other people's word for it when they claim Hield's game might not work on the NBA level.     When it comes to Foreign players, I'm vaguely aware of the fact that the statistical translation is extremely difficult, because Europeans play a very different style of game and the different leagues/micro leagues and global competition can greatly impact the statistical output.  Common sense says you can't simply say "Well he averaged X playing international ball against Olympic teams... and then averaged Y playing in a Turkish League... so clearly that means Z".    Again, I'm no expert, but it seems pretty odd to highlight Saric's 10 games playing for Cibona Zagreb in "Eurocup" competition and compare it to the 24 games he played for Anadolu Efes in the "Euroleague".   From what I can tell, he's played the last two seasons for the same club in the same league and there's been improvement.   He went from shooting 43%/30%/71% to shooting 50%/40%/94% against (presumably) the same competition while playing alongside (presumably) the same players in (presumably) the same system.   So I take that for what it's worth.

Then I really wish you wouldn't talk about Saric that much. I actually have watched him play a good bit him since I'm really into FIBA play. I still remember thinking he was a pretty tough player. He had his front teeth knocked out and continued playing. However, as far as overall skill nothing stood out. He could handle the ball pretty well and was well composed, but lacks athleticism and didn't really hit many shots.

If you think you Philly fans are getting much more than a Mirotic type player then you're in a for a big surprise.

[LarBrd33]

How does "per 36" skew anything for a guy who plays up to 30 minutes a game but whose minutes vary.  The whole purpose of per 36 stats is to normalize numbers for comparison such that they AREN'T skewed.

Yeah I mean, obviously if you simply Google "Dario Saric improvement" you'll find multiple articles about his rising shooting percentages.   So it doesn't take a ton of work to dispel the idea that he's remained stagnant since he was drafted (and compared to Larry Bird on this forum). 

As an aside, I wish more folks here were willing to admit their lack of knowledge on certain subjects.   I've never watched a second of Dario Saric playing basketball.  I don't follow College ball at all.   All I can really do is just look at stats and take other people's word for it on how they translate to the pros.  In College, for instance, I'm vaguely aware that certain programs and the level of competition can make a significant impact on statistical output.  It's also clear that College players make SIGNIFICANT leaps from Freshman to Senior years in terms of statistical output.  For that reason, when I see a player like Buddy Hield putting up ridiculous numbers as a Senior, I am naturally skeptical based on the fact that 19 year olds in his draft significantly outplayed Hield's Freshman season... and I have to take other people's word for it when they claim Hield's game might not work on the NBA level.     When it comes to Foreign players, I'm vaguely aware of the fact that the statistical translation is extremely difficult, because Europeans play a very different style of game and the different leagues/micro leagues and global competition can greatly impact the statistical output.  Common sense says you can't simply say "Well he averaged X playing international ball against Olympic teams... and then averaged Y playing in a Turkish League... so clearly that means Z".    Again, I'm no expert, but it seems pretty odd to highlight Saric's 10 games playing for Cibona Zagreb in "Eurocup" competition and compare it to the 24 games he played for Anadolu Efes in the "Euroleague".   From what I can tell, he's played the last two seasons for the same club in the same league and there's been improvement.   He went from shooting 43%/30%/71% to shooting 50%/40%/94% against (presumably) the same competition while playing alongside (presumably) the same players in (presumably) the same system.   So I take that for what it's worth.

Then I really wish you wouldn't talk about Saric that much. I actually have watched him play a good bit him since I'm really into FIBA play. I still remember thinking he was a pretty tough player. He had his front teeth knocked out and continued playing. However, as far as overall skill nothing stood out. He could handle the ball pretty well and was well composed, but lacks athleticism and didn't really hit many shots.

If you think you Philly fans are getting much more than a Mirotic type player then you're in a for a big surprise.

Pretty sure Philly would be ecstatic if Saric is comparable to Mirotic.

[RockinRyA]

How does "per 36" skew anything for a guy who plays up to 30 minutes a game but whose minutes vary.  The whole purpose of per 36 stats is to normalize numbers for comparison such that they AREN'T skewed.

Yeah I mean, obviously if you simply Google "Dario Saric improvement" you'll find multiple articles about his rising shooting percentages.   So it doesn't take a ton of work to dispel the idea that he's remained stagnant since he was drafted (and compared to Larry Bird on this forum). 

As an aside, I wish more folks here were willing to admit their lack of knowledge on certain subjects.   I've never watched a second of Dario Saric playing basketball.  I don't follow College ball at all.   All I can really do is just look at stats and take other people's word for it on how they translate to the pros.  In College, for instance, I'm vaguely aware that certain programs and the level of competition can make a significant impact on statistical output.  It's also clear that College players make SIGNIFICANT leaps from Freshman to Senior years in terms of statistical output.  For that reason, when I see a player like Buddy Hield putting up ridiculous numbers as a Senior, I am naturally skeptical based on the fact that 19 year olds in his draft significantly outplayed Hield's Freshman season... and I have to take other people's word for it when they claim Hield's game might not work on the NBA level.     When it comes to Foreign players, I'm vaguely aware of the fact that the statistical translation is extremely difficult, because Europeans play a very different style of game and the different leagues/micro leagues and global competition can greatly impact the statistical output.  Common sense says you can't simply say "Well he averaged X playing international ball against Olympic teams... and then averaged Y playing in a Turkish League... so clearly that means Z".    Again, I'm no expert, but it seems pretty odd to highlight Saric's 10 games playing for Cibona Zagreb in "Eurocup" competition and compare it to the 24 games he played for Anadolu Efes in the "Euroleague".   From what I can tell, he's played the last two seasons for the same club in the same league and there's been improvement.   He went from shooting 43%/30%/71% to shooting 50%/40%/94% against (presumably) the same competition while playing alongside (presumably) the same players in (presumably) the same system.   So I take that for what it's worth.

Then I really wish you wouldn't talk about Saric that much. I actually have watched him play a good bit him since I'm really into FIBA play. I still remember thinking he was a pretty tough player. He had his front teeth knocked out and continued playing. However, as far as overall skill nothing stood out. He could handle the ball pretty well and was well composed, but lacks athleticism and didn't really hit many shots.

If you think you Philly fans are getting much more than a Mirotic type player then you're in a for a big surprise.

Pretty sure Philly would be ecstatic if Saric is comparable to Mirotic.

I think if there's a player most likely to become a star in Philly's roster (not counting this year's pick of course) it is Saric. With that said he plays a bit similar to Simmons, so yeah looking like its gonna be Ingram for the Sixers unless they trade someone.

[TheSundanceKid]

Maybe this is unfair or unfounded, but I feel like if he does not come over to this year it may reach a point of starting to hurt his longterm NBA potential. He is has been playing in the European league and training with the European staff for many years now. The game is different over there (many players have talked about this) and it is certainly different for his development than if he was over here in 76ers camp. It seems like a lot of players receive great molding and teaching in their first couple of years in the NBA when the top prospects arrive at 19 or 20. If he comes over next year (when he can sign a contract worth many millions more) he will already be 23 which is definitely on the older end of being prospect. By comparison Avery Bradley is 25 and has been in the league 6 seasons. He saw tremendous improvement between 21 and 23 in the NBA.

I think you have a fair point here. He's waited a long time to come over. It'll make him more money but he has probably hurt his development.

Having said that the development would have been on this Philly team so...