Some thoughts about the C's offense.

[kg4president]

Hey there everyone. I've been around these forums for about 5 or 6 years, but this is my first post.

I've watched almost Celtics game in the Rondo era. This year he has been at his worst by far in my opinion. It's not just his shooting that's different. It's his ability to create offense for himself and as such he's averaging a career worst 8ppg.

I know most people will argue that his assist and rebound numbers are great and they are, but that doesn't change the fact that he's personally struggling. The odd thing is that I don't think Rondo has changed as a player, before his ACL tear he averaged almost 14ppg which would have been a career best and then his first year in the post KG/PP era he averaged 11 points per game coming off that ACL tear(which is a small drop off in the bigger scheme of things, but it's relevant). Now another year removed from the surgery his scoring has gotten even worse.

So why is this happening? Assuming rondo isn't just getting worse(which I don't think he is) then something else is causing the problem. I think the problem is team spacing, mostly in regard to how our Centers open up the floor for Rondo driving lanes. In the last few years with KG he was playing  exclusively the center spot, but he almost never went back to the basket. Instead it was all pick in pop for a mid range jumper. KG's amazing mid range jumper would cause the shot blocker to come all the way out of the paint to contest. Which meant rondo could get to work either with an assist to KG or by taking it to the basket when the opposing center stepped out.

Last year we had some of the same dynamic because Sully had really developed that same mid range shot that KG had. Which again opened up the paint for Rondo, but now all that's changed. Sully started the transition to the 3 point line last year and at the same time rondo's scoring started to dip. Now Sullinger almost only goes to the 3 point line or posts up. Now he is shooting around 36% for the season, which isn't bad for a big fella, but it changes the dynamic that allows Rondo to get to the rim, because it's not on pick and pops that Sully is getting open for those threes.

In summary: Tone down on the Sully 3's by putting him in mid range pick and pops with Rondo and you'll see an increase in Rondo's ability to work and have options that can help win late in the game either off a pass for a Sully mid-range or a drive to the basket with sully as a decoy. Of course in that situation you can spread the floor with JG, KO, and Bradley as well giving rondo even more options past the first two.

  That's all folks!

[hwangjini_1]

welcome to cb and tp for you. good post with good points. as you know rondo is a bone of contention around here, but i agree with your basic premise on spacing. there is a thread now on steven's offensive scheme, which centers around motion.

i think what you post fits with that, so feel free to join that thread as well.

[shrinkage36]

Let's just get real here. You don't draft another point guard for the heck of it. The purpose was to move on from Rondo. Now here we are. Smart will be the future here, and they are different types of players, but you drafted him to take over.

Now is the time to pull a trade for Rondo. He's the only one that can get us an impact players. I don't believe anyone else on this roster can do that. You have to spend money to make money, and you have to trade your only commodity in order to get better.

[KeepRondo]

You started off talking about Rondo so I'll go on that.

I think the problem is he's been missing that mid range jumper. Once he starts bricking a few of them or he refuses to shoot them, teams are then keying in on the passing lanes. If he can fix his jumper to where it once was, it will open things back up for him.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Let's just get real here. You don't draft another point guard for the heck of it. The purpose was to move on from Rondo. Now here we are. Smart will be the future here, and they are different types of players, but you drafted him to take over.

Now is the time to pull a trade for Rondo. He's the only one that can get us an impact players. I don't believe anyone else on this roster can do that. You have to spend money to make money, and you have to trade your only commodity in order to get better.

You could be right about why they picked Smart but don't pretend like replacing RR is the only reason why they would pick him. I don't know why they picked Smart, don't care bc I like the kid.

Could be a replacement for AB
Could be a real backup for RR
Could be a replacement for Green (not likely but w/e)
Could be a super sub for all the guard spots
Could be just BPA
Could be b/c of his attitude he could fit as a starter and/or bench guy
Maybe CBS loved him
Maybe they didn't like other players who were left to pick

Just a lot of things that may have nothing to do with replacing RR.

[clover]

Hey there everyone. I've been around these forums for about 5 or 6 years, but this is my first post.

I've watched almost Celtics game in the Rondo era. This year he has been at his worst by far in my opinion. It's not just his shooting that's different. It's his ability to create offense for himself and as such he's averaging a career worst 8ppg.

I know most people will argue that his assist and rebound numbers are great and they are, but that doesn't change the fact that he's personally struggling. The odd thing is that I don't think Rondo has changed as a player, before his ACL tear he averaged almost 14ppg which would have been a career best and then his first year in the post KG/PP era he averaged 11 points per game coming off that ACL tear(which is a small drop off in the bigger scheme of things, but it's relevant). Now another year removed from the surgery his scoring has gotten even worse.

So why is this happening? Assuming rondo isn't just getting worse(which I don't think he is) then something else is causing the problem. I think the problem is team spacing, mostly in regard to how our Centers open up the floor for Rondo driving lanes. In the last few years with KG he was playing  exclusively the center spot, but he almost never went back to the basket. Instead it was all pick in pop for a mid range jumper. KG's amazing mid range jumper would cause the shot blocker to come all the way out of the paint to contest. Which meant rondo could get to work either with an assist to KG or by taking it to the basket when the opposing center stepped out.

Last year we had some of the same dynamic because Sully had really developed that same mid range shot that KG had. Which again opened up the paint for Rondo, but now all that's changed. Sully started the transition to the 3 point line last year and at the same time rondo's scoring started to dip. Now Sullinger almost only goes to the 3 point line or posts up. Now he is shooting around 36% for the season, which isn't bad for a big fella, but it changes the dynamic that allows Rondo to get to the rim, because it's not on pick and pops that Sully is getting open for those threes.

In summary: Tone down on the Sully 3's by putting him in mid range pick and pops with Rondo and you'll see an increase in Rondo's ability to work and have options that can help win late in the game either off a pass for a Sully mid-range or a drive to the basket with sully as a decoy. Of course in that situation you can spread the floor with JG, KO, and Bradley as well giving rondo even more options past the first two.

  That's all folks!

Nah--3 of Rondo's 4 best scoring years came before KG moved to the 5.

Perk wasn't any help in spacing at all.

[Celtics4ever]

Rondo's shooting has always been suspect.   Mentally, though, he  is not back.   I am not making excuses but it is like he is afraid to drive and he only moves fast in selective spurts.   Perhaps he does not trust his body or he is afraid he will get hurt again.    Once in a while, we see a flash of old Rondo.   But I think some of his problems are mental related to the injury.

This is not an excuse, it is what it is, right now he is damaged goods.  He never could shoot.

[hwangjini_1]

Rondo's shooting has always been suspect.   Mentally, though, he  is not back.   I am not making excuses but it is like he is afraid to drive and he only moves fast in selective spurts.   Perhaps he does not trust his body or he is afraid he will get hurt again.    Once in a while, we see a flash of old Rondo.   But I think some of his problems are mental related to the injury.

This is not an excuse, it is what it is, right now he is damaged goods.  He never could shoot.

just to qualify, not deny, the point on rondo's shooting. his troubles are most pronounced when he is taking a contested shot. when left wide open, there have been periods in his history when his shooting percentages were acceptable.

so, i basically agree, but would use another word than "never".