Trade Rondo for Hibbert/picks, draft Stanley Johnson

[slamtheking]

I like the trade, but Rondo will not get 2 picks AND Hibbert. Maybe for other up and coming player/rookie + 2 1st rounders, but for Hibbert, I will be surprised if we even get a 1st rounder as well. Since centers are harder to get in this league, I think WE will be the one surrendering a first for Hibbert

Agreed. 

I think Rondo for Hibbert straight up (with garbage thrown in for padding if need be) is a more likely scenario.  Hibbert is not as good a player as Rondo at his best, but that's offset by the fact that we desperately need a starting calibre center, and we also desperately need a rim protector.   Adding Hibbert to this team would (IMO) increase our win record dramatically I think.

agree with you on the trade balance and that because Hibbert plays a position that's weak in the league right now, that gives him some extra value.  Even though he fills the rim protector hole we have at center, he's not the go-to scorer we need nor does he elevate the play of his teammates.  I think our record would actually get worse until the young players develop into solid starters in the few years.  We'd really have to bank on Smart, Sully and KO making a leap as well as one of the multitude of SGs we have finally getting their act together to become a consistant scoring threat.

[Donoghus]

Indiana is giving up waaaay too much here.

I'm using your quote as the general statement for the opposition to this trade.

Indiana is not giving up too much here. Indiana and Roy Hibbert is not exactly an inseparable marriage. From SB Nation's Indy Cornrows (http://www.indycornrows.com/2014/6/19/5823912/indiana-pacers-2013-14-player-review-roy-hibbert):

After a disappointing end to the season, an early report from ESPN's Marc Stein indicated that Hibbert has not officially requested a trade, but "wouldn't exactly oppose" one either. Due to his declining numbers, lack of an expiring contract, and upcoming player option after next season, the Pacers would likely only get cents on the dollar from any team willing to make a swap.

The real meat of the deal is Rondo + nonguaranteeds for Hibbert, dead weight contract (Hill), a 2015 late lottery 1st and a 2016 late 1st (see my revised trade of adding the 2015 LAC 1st in exchange for a couple of second rounders to make this consecutive pick relay work). If anyone is ridiculously overvalued on this forum, it's Hibbert, not Rondo.

Remember, we're not just giving them Rondo. We're greatly easing their cap situation by taking Hill (and Hibbert, who is incredibly overpaid) and giving them Bogans/Johnson so that they can go after a third piece to add to a Rondo + George duo in 2015. The real price is their pick this year. We have to add LAC's 2015 1st so that they can give us their 2015 pick, and so then they also give us their 2016 1st and seconds (again, really insignificant when you realize they'd have a real chance at assembling a devastating Big Three).

The Pacers tried to trade Hibbert for Dragic and failed. In my opinion, Rondo right now is still valued higher than Dragic. That's not taking into account our addition of cap relief and the 2015 LAC 1st.

If I'm correct, the Pacers would have about $40m committed in cap next summer after renouncing all cap holds if they made this trade. Let's say they re-sign Rondo for $17m. They'd still have plenty of room to add a legitimate third wheel as well as construct a supporting cast.

I have to say I think this is a really fair trade. From Boston's perspective, you're getting two unprotected 1sts (the real prize being the late lottery 1st) and a guy who, if he rebounds, is a DPOY candidate. If he doesn't, he'll be an expiring next year. From Indiana's perspective, you're breaking up a spoiled partnership between their franchise and Hibbert, giving them a potential star, and freeing up cap space to build around Paul George.

I'm not sure Hibbert is ridiculously overvalued on these boards these days.  Most people have recognized that he had an awful months long stretch last season.  The debate seems to be a matter of whether he's going to bounce back or not.

Indiana is still dealing away size here with a 7 foot center that has certainly showed flashes of all-star play AND they're giving up 2 first rounders for a PG (arguably, the deepest position in the NBA right now) who is a unrestricted FA next off-season and is still recovering from ACL surgery.  It's an overpay because you're trading size AND giving up two first rounders for Rondo.  The overvaluation at the moment is more on Rondo. 

Dealing size for a guard has always been a risky proposition in the NBA.   

[D.o.s.]

The celtics do this trade because Rondo's an easier piece to replace in the aggregate than Hibbert, except that I don't know if Stevens is really going to implement the kind of defensive system that would make this trade worthwhile for the C's.

[Donoghus]

The celtics do this trade because Rondo's an easier piece to replace in the aggregate than Hibbert, except that I don't know if Stevens is really going to implement the kind of defensive system that would make this trade worthwhile for the C's.

Oh, I think they would too for that price unless some due diligence comes back on Hibbert that illustrates he's a complete nutjob & a lost cause.   

I don't think Indiana does it at that price, though.

[loco_91]

I'm not sure there really is a mutually benefitial trade to be made here... is Hibbert likely to sign a long-term deal with us in 2016? Is Rondo guaranteed to re-sign with Indy?

I'd be more enthusiastic if Hibbert were like 25 with three years left on his contract than 27 with just two years left. In two years I'm not sure we'll be good enough yet to convince him to stay.

I'd still make this particular deal because we get two picks, but I doubt Indy gives that up... and a deal acceptable to Indy probably isn't acceptable to Boston...

[Csfan1984]

I think Pacers should stick with Hibbert and look to move West and Hill since without George and Stephenson they are not a top contender. By trading their role players and tanking in just a year they can gain assets and cap room for 2015 reload.

Pacers can probably move both West and Hill to Kings for Staukas, Williams, Terry, Landry, and a pair of first.

Kings then have Hill, McLemore, Gay, West, Boogie

Pacers then have Stuckey, Staukas, Copleland, Williams, Hibbert to tank with. Likely a lot top ten lotto team. Assets in Staukas (develops), high pick (from tanking), extra picks (from King's) and cap space for 2015. Makes more sense then going after Rondo not knowing if he resigns.

[D.o.s.]

The celtics do this trade because Rondo's an easier piece to replace in the aggregate than Hibbert, except that I don't know if Stevens is really going to implement the kind of defensive system that would make this trade worthwhile for the C's.

Oh, I think they would too for that price unless some due diligence comes back on Hibbert that illustrates he's a complete nutjob & a lost cause.   

I don't think Indiana does it at that price, though.

Agreed -- Indiana bails because the gulf from Rondo to George hill isn't as vast as Hibbert to whoever they have left at C.

[slamtheking]

The celtics do this trade because Rondo's an easier piece to replace in the aggregate than Hibbert, except that I don't know if Stevens is really going to implement the kind of defensive system that would make this trade worthwhile for the C's.

Oh, I think they would too for that price unless some due diligence comes back on Hibbert that illustrates he's a complete nutjob & a lost cause.   

I don't think Indiana does it at that price, though.

Agreed -- Indiana bails because the gulf from Rondo to George hill isn't as vast as Hibbert to whoever they have left at C.

good Hibbert - agree.  bad Hibbert - disagree.  the biggest question surrounding the whole deal is which Hibbert will show up next year.

[Csfan1984]

Everyone understands the Good/Bad Hibbert question. But you have to think he will be good unless he really is trying to force his way out. Then Pacers are forced to trade him and get 80 cents on the dollar.

Interesting thing for me is I thought Turner also had a set back after he joined the Pacers. Then you hear the reports of wanting to be in a good environment and choosing C's this offseason. Maybe the odds are higher that Hibbert just wants out.

[TheFlex]

The celtics do this trade because Rondo's an easier piece to replace in the aggregate than Hibbert, except that I don't know if Stevens is really going to implement the kind of defensive system that would make this trade worthwhile for the C's.

Oh, I think they would too for that price unless some due diligence comes back on Hibbert that illustrates he's a complete nutjob & a lost cause.   

I don't think Indiana does it at that price, though.

Agreed -- Indiana bails because the gulf from Rondo to George hill isn't as vast as Hibbert to whoever they have left at C.

Wrong. Healthy Rondo demolishes George Hill. As others have said, Roy Hibbert can either be really, really good or really, really bad. Averaging out his play makes him no better than an above-average center, which is not exactly indispensable in a league moving away from lumbering centers.

Now, you could argue that it's not guaranteed that Rondo returns to full health. I would say there's a better chance that Rondo returns to full health than Hibbert sustaining All-Star-level play over the course of a season or multiple seasons.

Slam -- I mentioned Love because he was the most recent star put on the market and he's one of the few stars in recent blockbusters that have been exchanged for a top-flight prospect. Your initial concern was that Hibbert/lotto pick was not enough for a player at the level of Rondo. How many blockbusters have there been in which the team trading the star gets a prospect on par with Wiggins or a player on par with Andrew Bynum (at the time he was traded)? Very few, and usually it's when the star being traded is a top five player in the league (Kevin Love this summer, Dwight Howard a few summers ago). Rondo, even when healthy, is not a top five player in the league.

[Future Celtics Owner]

Hibbert is super slow and horrible at defensive rotations. He does get 2 blocks a game, but besides that his stats and overall life is a joke.

Now if it is a 3-4 team trade where we flip hibbert to another team that may be ok IMO. Hibbert is a good center now bc there are hardly any, but there are legit big men in the upcoming drafts and some prospects in the league now.

Personally, I would like to buy low on Larry Sanders or even do a small trade to get Bismac Biyombo. What if we did a 3 team trade and gave up Rondo and received Sanders(4years 11m) and Bismac B. and maybe even a pick. That would take care of our rim protector problem.

Best case scenario: Smart shows he is a stud and Danny feels comfortable giving him the point and letting go of Rondo. Larry Sanders gets back to his old self or better, he's on a very reasonable contract for an elite shot blocker and 10/10.....better than Hibbert. And Bismac ....well Bismac turns into Larry sanders type of player after we sign him to a very reasonable extension. We draft Karl Towns. James Young turns into a great 2 guard .

[slamtheking]

Slam -- I mentioned Love because he was the most recent star put on the market and he's one of the few stars in recent blockbusters that have been exchanged for a top-flight prospect. Your initial concern was that Hibbert/lotto pick was not enough for a player at the level of Rondo. How many blockbusters have there been in which the team trading the star gets a prospect on par with Wiggins or a player on par with Andrew Bynum (at the time he was traded)? Very few, and usually it's when the star being traded is a top five player in the league (Kevin Love this summer, Dwight Howard a few summers ago). Rondo, even when healthy, is not a top five player in the league.

my concern was actually the opposite.  I don't see Indy giving up 2 firsts with Hibbert to get Rondo.   I'd love to get that exchange but I just don't see that happening.  more likely scenario is basically Hibbert for Rondo with filler on both sides.

[the_gunner]

What about:

Rondo+Bogans=Hibbert?

I must admit, that I have mixed feelings when it comes to a Rondo trade. When Rondo is at his best, and healthy, he is an elite PG, but the same can be said about Hibbert, and it's so much harder to get an elite center than an elite PG in the current market, and besides that I hope that Smart can step up and become an elite pg within the next couple of seasons.

[Celtics4ever]

I think Hibbert is low target for us.   He can shoot a little, he can block shots but his overall D minus his shot blocking is poor and he is a poor rebounder for a man his size.   He is a souped up Mark Eaton.

[csfansince60s]

The celtics do this trade because Rondo's an easier piece to replace in the aggregate than Hibbert, except that I don't know if Stevens is really going to implement the kind of defensive system that would make this trade worthwhile for the C's.

Oh, I think they would too for that price unless some due diligence comes back on Hibbert that illustrates he's a complete nutjob & a lost cause.   

I don't think Indiana does it at that price, though.

Agreed -- Indiana bails because the gulf from Rondo to George hill isn't as vast as Hibbert to whoever they have left at C.

good Hibbert - agree.  bad Hibbert - disagree.  the biggest question surrounding the whole deal is which Hibbert will show up next year.

I have a hard time seeing Hibbert staying in Indy.

That whole team fell off a cliff in the last half of last year. Hibbert took much of the blame for that from fans and a few fellow players (the classy Lance Stephenson, for one). That was what the fight between Turner and Stephenson was allegedly about.

Allegedly, Paul "Catfish" George (another class act by the way) had an affair with Hibbert's fianc?e. Needless to say, this caused locker-room friction and bubbled over into a practice when things were going bad for the team. Classy Lance calls out Hibbert in practice about being bum sore about George banging his girlfriend and how that is causing Hibbert's decline in play.

Supposedly, Evan Turner got p---ed off at Stephenson for "publicizing" the affair to the team in that manner. Turner showed some class in calling Stephenson out on the manner and forum of Stephenson's callout of Hibbert and started a physical beef with Sir Lance.

This to me explains Hibbert's drastic drop-off in performance in the last half of the year.

Why would he want to go back to that situation even with Sir Lance gone.

I'd love to have Hibbert on this team, especially since his value is relatively pretty low right now, given his drop-off in play and his discomfort with being there. He lost a lot of face. He can't be happy there.

I'd love to have him here WITH Rondo, but if we had to trade Rondo because we can't get another strong piece to play with him and attract other good players, I'd do the Hibbert and two picks for Rondo.