We are 14-5...when do we get to make judgements?

[ItStaysYang]

No one likes to make assumptions about a team in the beginning of the seasons until the first 20 games. Many of us weren't happy with our record after our first 20 and wanted to wait til the first 25. Either way, it was a losing record...and we were 14-16 after 30.

After 19, we are 14-5...73.6% winning. If we lose the next, we are 70% winning. If we win the next, we are 75%.

I know people are counting us out, and I don't want to make this a Rondo thread....but I mean...what are your thoughts?

Because for me 14-5 > 20-23

And the ring with Rondo, finals/ECF visits with Rondo not enough for you?

Another Rondo thread?

What?

Remember his monster game in the ECF against Miami last year?

...

Wait what?

[kgainez]

No one likes to make assumptions about a team in the beginning of the seasons until the first 20 games. Many of us weren't happy with our record after our first 20 and wanted to wait til the first 25. Either way, it was a losing record...and we were 14-16 after 30.

After 19, we are 14-5...73.6% winning. If we lose the next, we are 70% winning. If we win the next, we are 75%.

I know people are counting us out, and I don't want to make this a Rondo thread....but I mean...what are your thoughts?

Because for me 14-5 > 20-23

And the ring with Rondo, finals/ECF visits with Rondo not enough for you?

Another Rondo thread?

What?

Remember his monster game in the ECF against Miami last year?

...

Wait what?

it's not exclusively a Rondo thread
but more towards those that think this 'run' is a fluke and that we still can't win it all, have no aggression, can't compete, etc.

[dmopower]

The final judgment will be at seasons end.

 There seems to be two main thoughts as to Rondo's absence with the first one being more popular.

 The first one is that Rondo is now gone and the rest of the team has either stepped it up or gotton healthy.
 There is absolute truth to both statments in my opinion.

 The second one is that we are moving the ball more now that Rondo isnt dominating the shot clock. The players are getting more touches, getting a better feel for the game and playing happy ball. I believe there is truth in this opinion as well.

 When all is said and done it is probably a combination of all of these things, as one thing has a positive or negative effect on another.

 I personally agree that the second one was the bigger issue but we can debate that to death, and HAVE. lol

 You can't argue that we had players with MAJOR health issues comming back and it taking awhile to them to reaclimate themselves. Double shoulder surgery is no joke and 15 to 20 years ago was probably career ending issues. Two guys with open heart surgery should speak for itself.

 Then there is Sullinger going down, to me this was a bigger issue right now than Rondo's absence simply because Bradly is healthy and Danny got Lee and Terry to compensate for the loss of our star guard. While we are thin inside and Sully would have improved even more by now and Lee and Bradly stayed in front of their man better helping keep Sully on the floor.

 I believe Sullinger in the rotation right now makes us a contender barring further injuries.

 I don't hate on Rondo as some think. I love the guy! Love his chip and ability to turn it on when needed. An as I said early on that his tendency's to over dribble were more a coaching flaw that a player flaw and easily overcome with education from a quality coach.


 I don't think we are better without Rondo but I think with our sucess without him that people clearly see there is improvment for him to make. Rondo is not stupid he sees these thiongs also as does Doc.
 I believe that next year Rondo will be doing more screening than ever and involving himself more on the cutting end of passes than ever. If you think Rondo is a threat while everyone on the floor is watching him wait till you see him moving without the ball sneaking around while people arent focusing on him. More of what John Stockton did.

 
 I like having threads where we all put input in before the seasons over. Anyone can disect the team when it's all said and done. I like to see the guys predict and I like to see who predicts correctly. This helps to evaluate peoples insight. There are lots of things that needs to come together and someone being correct a lot of time comes down to other decisions that were made also. Still over a long period and several issues being discussed you can start to see who appears to be more insightful or lucky however you want to see things.

 I think if healthy we can beat anyone in the east, we can also lose to anyone in the east. Our highs and lows are far to often to far appart. This usually isnt the case with true contenders.

For us to be sucessful in the post season Jeff Green is MY key to sucess. He will have to step it up even further than h4e has. I also believe he can and will step things up even further than he has.

 I predict ECF 5 games and were on vacation. I sure hope for more.

 
 
                           

[Boris Badenov]

Like any good Celticsblogger, I prefer to let all of my judgments - about every single aspect of the Celtics overall and each individual player's abilities in every aspect of the game - to be formed based completely on what happened in the very last game they played, and nothing else.

Actually that's not completely true. I also occasionally form opinions about "trends" based on samples of up to 3 recent games.

[connor]

No one likes to make assumptions about a team in the beginning of the seasons until the first 20 games. Many of us weren't happy with our record after our first 20 and wanted to wait til the first 25. Either way, it was a losing record...and we were 14-16 after 30.

After 19, we are 14-5...73.6% winning. If we lose the next, we are 70% winning. If we win the next, we are 75%.

I know people are counting us out, and I don't want to make this a Rondo thread....but I mean...what are your thoughts?

Because for me 14-5 > 20-23

And the ring with Rondo, finals/ECF visits with Rondo not enough for you?

Another Rondo thread?

What?

Remember his monster game in the ECF against Miami last year?

...

Wait what?

it's not exclusively a Rondo thread
but more towards those that think this 'run' is a fluke and that we still can't win it all, have no aggression, can't compete, etc.

I don't think you laid the thread out as a "Rondo thread", but pretty much every thread out there right now is devolving into one about him because its out biggest story. Its hard for people to make any judgements about this team's run without thinking about how different it would be if Rondo was out there (people often forget about Sully being out as well).

I think the real judgement people want to try and make after the last 20 games isn't are we better without Rondo (its ridiculous to think we wouldn't be performing better by adding his talent, any team would be), really its:

"If we can play like this without Rondo, how much value does he add to THIS current team? And if we can replace a significant amount of his output with bench players, would we be better off moving him for players that would address our other glaring needs? Mainly a big that can score and rebound." 

Thats really the question to be asked and I don't think we can make any judgements until after the playoffs and we get into the offseason. I personally think Rondo should stick around but maybe that'll change if we can do some damage in the playoffs.

[Celtics4ever]

Last few games I would not mind having number 9 back.   All the TO's this weekend and last night pitiful performance do you still think we are better without him?

I never have thought so,  I think guys stepped it up and some guys hit their stride.  Guess what they have woke up!  Their stride just staggered and our old guys are wearing down.   We will be lucky if we get past second round in the playoffs as I see it.

This is a Rondo thread.   You have made your judgements, I don't think you have a future in sports analysis because most of them think we are not better w/o Rondo but you make a fine board troll.

[Lightskinsmurf]

Like any good Celticsblogger, I prefer to let all of my judgments - about every single aspect of the Celtics overall and each individual player's abilities in every aspect of the game - to be formed based completely on what happened in the very last game they played, and nothing else.

Actually that's not completely true. I also occasionally form opinions about "trends" based on samples of up to 3 recent games.

Lol nice, last night was embarrassing but lets not act like we didn't lose to bad teams with rondo. Lets not act like we weren't 20-23 before he went down. I'm just saying. Last night sucked, but it was one game. Plus even tho this is no excuse to lose to the freaking bobcats, pierce, *A guy we definitely do need* didn't play.

[guava_wrench]

Lol nice, last night was embarrassing but lets not act like we didn't lose to bad teams with rondo. Lets not act like we weren't 20-23 before he went down. I'm just saying. Last night sucked, but it was one game. Plus even tho this is no excuse to lose to the freaking bobcats, pierce, *A guy we definitely do need* didn't play.

So Pierce can't miss games now, even against horrible teams? What happens when Pierce is banged up and underperforming?

I hope you get the point. With Rondo, sitting Pierce, who may need to sit some more times before the playoffs, wouldn't be such a big deal.

Basically, the difference between with Rondo and without Rondo this season is that one losing streak before he got injured. Not a large enough sample size for any conclusions.

Opinions either way are fine. But if we take our opinions on this too seriously, we might be deluding ourselves.

[guava_wrench]

I think the recent record really doesn't matter. The Celtics would have, once again, started getting serious in the first round if Rondo was around. The regular season is fool's gold with this team.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

Look at last night...then against OKLA, then next time versus Miami....now that we have bradley back, and green is playing better...you'll see we have no one who can move the ball by themsleves, no one who can dribble drive, rondo NEVER had the ball stolen from him.....other teams and players know this...some here do not...you had to COVER RONDO....there is no one like that now....he created penetration, and when wilcox ran with him.....WHAT-are-ya-gonna-do.....layup or dish.....unstoppable....sure rondo made mistakes...SO DID everyone else...but no one can move like him.....!

[Meadowlark_Scal]

Another thing me keep forgetting, when we had rondo, we did NOT have bradley's defense and cutting....we are NOT better..we added DEFENSE, and lost our offense...rondo and bradley together, with green. kg, and pp....now the other team has problems to deal with......so without rondo...you can expect too many jumpshots...no penetration in a clutch, no drive and dish......limited offense....asking too much from pp, and kg....

[CelticConcourse]

Look at last night...then against OKLA, then next time versus Miami....now that we have bradley back, and green is playing better...you'll see we have no one who can move the ball by themsleves, no one who can dribble drive, rondo NEVER had the ball stolen from him.....other teams and players know this...some here do not...you had to COVER RONDO....there is no one like that now....he created penetration, and when wilcox ran with him.....WHAT-are-ya-gonna-do.....layup or dish.....unstoppable....sure rondo made mistakes...SO DID everyone else...but no one can move like him.....!

Rondo is injured. Do you wish to play him tonight? Two million TPs says he's getting a DNP tonight.

[Chief]

Another thing me keep forgetting, when we had rondo, we did NOT have bradley's defense and cutting....we are NOT better..we added DEFENSE, and lost our offense...rondo and bradley together, with green. kg, and pp....now the other team has problems to deal with......so without rondo...you can expect too many jumpshots...no penetration in a clutch, no drive and dish......limited offense....asking too much from pp, and kg....

I agree. Now Pierce has to play that role. Something he is good at, but not always comfortable doing. And when we play teams with great sfs, Pierce uses too much energy on defense to run the offense every single play.

Also, I've seen Bradley numerous times back-cut to the basket, and just waive his arms at Crawford, Lee, Terry...
Never happened with Rondo.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

Look at last night...then against OKLA, then next time versus Miami....now that we have bradley back, and green is playing better...you'll see we have no one who can move the ball by themsleves, no one who can dribble drive, rondo NEVER had the ball stolen from him.....other teams and players know this...some here do not...you had to COVER RONDO....there is no one like that now....he created penetration, and when wilcox ran with him.....WHAT-are-ya-gonna-do.....layup or dish.....unstoppable....sure rondo made mistakes...SO DID everyone else...but no one can move like him.....!

Rondo is injured. Do you wish to play him tonight? Two million TPs says he's getting a DNP tonight.

What are you getting out of this..? These are called rational comparisons to two sides of an equation....I am not upset you don't understand it...but don't emabarrass yourself, make a post of YOUR view, that is not based on mine..as in, compare and contrast the team rationally, as you see it based on your knowledge and expereince..why ride my coattails..?

[kgainez]

This is a Rondo thread.   You have made your judgements, I don't think you have a future in sports analysis because most of them think we are not better w/o Rondo but you make a fine board troll.

...
the hell are you talking about?