We are 14-5...when do we get to make judgements?

[Celtics4ever]

The team was rebuilt of the fly some of these guys would have got it had RR not been hurt.   But sadly it took an injury of that magnitude to wake up PP and man up Jeff Green.   We would be even better with Rondo, if you don't think he would have helped yesterday I point to the 20+ TO's.   Lee would have a scoring edge off the bench and PP is a better shooter when he is not channeling Bird for all the assists.

It took these guys a while to click.   I have heard a lot of we are better without RR on the board but not so much from guys like Tommy or Magic whom I trust a lot more than the Joe Blows on the board.

That isn't to say that ball movement has not improved with more guys touching it.  I think it spreads the floor and makes it harder to D us up.  This should happen when RR returns!   But I think it has a lot to do with guys picking up the slack and not relying on RR to win games for us rather than his absence.

[BballTim]

No one likes to make assumptions about a team in the beginning of the seasons until the first 20 games. Many of us weren't happy with our record after our first 20 and wanted to wait til the first 25. Either way, it was a losing record...and we were 14-16 after 30.

After 19, we are 14-5...73.6% winning. If we lose the next, we are 70% winning. If we win the next, we are 75%.

I know people are counting us out, and I don't want to make this a Rondo thread....but I mean...what are your thoughts?

Because for me 14-5 > 20-23

  What are you making judgements about? The defense improving as the season progressed? Green's continued improvement since December started? PP and Terry playing better when they're healthy? Bradley starting to play and getting better as the season's progressed? Doc's changes to the offense?

  Because all of those factors clearly improved the team and contributed to our winning record.

[LooseCannon]

Yeah I don't agree with that either. With KG and Pierce getting a year older and that one point guard we have coming back from ACL surgery? Plus I've yet to see that point guard play well with these group of guys consistently yet. Not at all sold on next year.

The Celtics may be in trouble if KG's defense goes completely into the tank, but a full season of good defense can mask some offensive decline by the veterans.

It's not a guaranteed thing, so if you only want a sure bet, then this isn't the team for you, but the team is close enough that decent health and maybe a solid veteran free agent big may be enough to get the team to be the second best team in the East with a non-ridiculous shot of upsetting the Heat.

Some improvement over the status quo at this time next season is within the realm of the possible, but the team could also be worse off.  I don't think that is a bad place to be.

[scaryjerry]

Yeaaaaah I think we're a better team without sullinger!
 

[LooseCannon]

Yeaaaaah I think we're a better team without sullinger!
 

I know you're kidding, but I think a serious hypothesis one may be able to propose based on recent games is that Brandon Bass is actually an adequate power forward and his presence in the starting lineup does not kill this team the way some people suggested it did when the team wasn't doing as well.

[CelticsFanNC]

   Didn't this team get hot at almost exactly the same time last season with Rondo?   

  Maybe this is the time of year guys older like Garnett and Pierce start to turn it on and play consistent basketball.


 

[CelticConcourse]

We judge after we win the championship, or however far we go in the playoffs. (If we miss the playoffs, I don't know what to say)

[danglertx]

   Didn't this team get hot at almost exactly the same time last season with Rondo?   

  Maybe this is the time of year guys older like Garnett and Pierce start to turn it on and play consistent basketball.


 

Maybe there is something to that.  The Lakers are an older team and they struggled early on and are starting to get it together.  Or maybe just the additions of Terry, Sully, Lee, Green and Wilcox were taking longer to integrate than we think.  This might be what is up with LA too. 

Maybe as the season wears on, the nagging injuries bring everyone down some athletically and then games become more about execution than 1 vs 1 physical mismatches. 

There are a lot of possibilities, but there does seem to be something going on with this two years in a row for us and now with the Lakers as well.

[bfrombleacher]

Yeaaaaah I think we're a better team without sullinger!
 

I know you're kidding, but I think a serious hypothesis one may be able to propose based on recent games is that Brandon Bass is actually an adequate power forward and his presence in the starting lineup does not kill this team the way some people suggested it did when the team wasn't doing as well.

His play has been BRUTAL.

I really don't think there's any way to defend it.

[Cman]

No one likes to make assumptions about a team in the beginning of the seasons until the first 20 games. Many of us weren't happy with our record after our first 20 and wanted to wait til the first 25. Either way, it was a losing record...and we were 14-16 after 30.

After 19, we are 14-5...73.6% winning. If we lose the next, we are 70% winning. If we win the next, we are 75%.

I know people are counting us out, and I don't want to make this a Rondo thread....but I mean...what are your thoughts?

Because for me 14-5 > 20-23

How do you factor in things like Green and Bradley continuing to recover from surgery, the loss of Sullinger, the team getting more PT w the current roster after losing Ray, etc?
I'd say it is much too early to draw any conclusions on Rondo, bc there are way too many other factors at play.

[CelticConcourse]

Yeaaaaah I think we're a better team without sullinger!
 

I know you're kidding, but I think a serious hypothesis one may be able to propose based on recent games is that Brandon Bass is actually an adequate power forward and his presence in the starting lineup does not kill this team the way some people suggested it did when the team wasn't doing as well.

His play has been BRUTAL.

I really don't think there's any way to defend it.

Still better than Sullinger (for now). He's a body and played well these past few games. He might not be the best player on the court, but he was Mr. Consistency last year. These past few games, he's earning that title back (when Green/JET slumped, he stepped up).

When he's hitting jumpers and rebounding (that putback vs. OKC was nasty), he is still a solid role player who can get 8ppg, minimum (he's actually at 7.6ppg thus far this year, not too bad).

Better than any free agent, mid-season pickup.

[D.o.s.]

I'm pretty sure The Captain nailed it:

Me: I know you're not better without Rondo. But you seem to still be an effective team without Rondo. Why is that happening?
PP: I think it has to go with the guys we have in there stepping up. Everybody has pretty much elevated their game. I think that the true character really comes out in a team when their backs are against the wall, and all the negative press and adversity is amongst you. Guys see that. And have something to prove. And I think that comes from growing up and making it to the NBA. People always said you're not going to make it, you're not going to be a very good player. So I think NBA players have always dealt with some kind of adversity, and this is just another one of those type of adversities, when you lose your best player, you lose another asset in Jared Sullinger, people really doubted you. And that's the time when you come together. Everybody elevates their game just to prove people wrong. That's something a lot of these guys have been doing their whole lives.

Me: What has the adjustment been for you on the floor? Not only did Rondo know exactly when and where you wanted the ball on the court, but you knew that he knew, and could play accordingly.

PP: I think my game is made to pretty much to play with anybody. I can do so many things off the ball, on the ball. I'm able to make that adjustment. The offense is totally different now, where there's a lot of passing, driving, kicking, screen-aways. And I think the ball literally is in one person's hand no more than two or three seconds, and the ball is moving. And so I'm able to make that adjustment. The other guys are making that adjustment. And I think it fits a lot of them quite well.
Me: I would think it's enjoyable to watch the ball move like that.

PP: It's fun. There's no pressure on me or KG to try and lead this team in scoring every night. You have a lot of guys who can step up. We've got a lot of guys that can play. It's fun to watch them get the ball and doing good things with it, because you know they're capable of it. [When] you have that great, great superstar who can put the ball in, score 30, 40 points every single night, the ball tends to stay in that person's hands. But [here] you've got about five, six guys who are capable of scoring between 15 and 20 points. So to make that extra pass, you really feel good about it, because you know these guys are capable of stepping up."

http://www.nba.com/2013/news/features/david_aldridge/03/11/morning-tip-young-guard-combos-kings-sale-update-qa-with-paul-pierce/index.html#qanda

[bfrombleacher]

Yeaaaaah I think we're a better team without sullinger!
 

I know you're kidding, but I think a serious hypothesis one may be able to propose based on recent games is that Brandon Bass is actually an adequate power forward and his presence in the starting lineup does not kill this team the way some people suggested it did when the team wasn't doing as well.

His play has been BRUTAL.

I really don't think there's any way to defend it.

Still better than Sullinger (for now). He's a body and played well these past few games. He might not be the best player on the court, but he was Mr. Consistency last year. These past few games, he's earning that title back (when Green/JET slumped, he stepped up).

When he's hitting jumpers and rebounding (that putback vs. OKC was nasty), he is still a solid role player who can get 8ppg, minimum (he's actually at 7.6ppg thus far this year, not too bad).

Better than any free agent, mid-season pickup.

Man...Sully has been a monster. I really don't think Bass has been better.

Maybe last game, which I missed (I know, kill me), Bass was better.

From what I've heard, he's basically had an Sully type game that Sully put up on an almost nightly basis. Efficient, doesn't need to score to be effective, played great D.

But I don't think he's been doing that this year at all consistently. He's been a step slow on rotations, up and down in terms of rebounding, a mess on offense.

Obviously I don't wish bad on Bass. I like his hustle. He's been a bit better lately and I hope he continues crashing those boards and playing D.

But I think replacing Sully with Bass is definitely, definitely not one of the reasons so far that we're on an upswing.

Upon reviewing LooseCannon's post, I might be wrong to have so ardently disagreed with him (I read too fast). I'll concede that he may not be as detrimental to the team as we'd think. Bass has really had a down year.

[CelticConcourse]

Yeaaaaah I think we're a better team without sullinger!
 

I know you're kidding, but I think a serious hypothesis one may be able to propose based on recent games is that Brandon Bass is actually an adequate power forward and his presence in the starting lineup does not kill this team the way some people suggested it did when the team wasn't doing as well.

His play has been BRUTAL.

I really don't think there's any way to defend it.

Still better than Sullinger (for now). He's a body and played well these past few games. He might not be the best player on the court, but he was Mr. Consistency last year. These past few games, he's earning that title back (when Green/JET slumped, he stepped up).

When he's hitting jumpers and rebounding (that putback vs. OKC was nasty), he is still a solid role player who can get 8ppg, minimum (he's actually at 7.6ppg thus far this year, not too bad).

Better than any free agent, mid-season pickup.

Man...Sully has been a monster. I really don't think Bass has been better.

Maybe last game, which I missed (I know, kill me), Bass was better.

From what I've heard, he's basically had an Sully type game that Sully put up on an almost nightly basis. Efficient, doesn't need to score to be effective, played great D.

But I don't think he's been doing that this year at all consistently. He's been a step slow on rotations, up and down in terms of rebounding, a mess on offense.

Obviously I don't wish bad on Bass. I like his hustle. He's been a bit better lately and I hope he continues crashing those boards and playing D.

But I think replacing Sully with Bass is definitely, definitely not one of the reasons so far that we're on an upswing.

Upon reviewing LooseCannon's post, I might be wrong to have so ardently disagreed with him (I read too fast). I'll concede that he may not be as detrimental to the team as we'd think. Bass has really had a down year.

I should have clarified. Bass played way better than Sully in our past twenty games because Sully can't play. He's injured.
For now, Bass is all we got. So we'll make do. We can't make Sully magically healthy overnight,

[LooseCannon]

Yeaaaaah I think we're a better team without sullinger!
 

I know you're kidding, but I think a serious hypothesis one may be able to propose based on recent games is that Brandon Bass is actually an adequate power forward and his presence in the starting lineup does not kill this team the way some people suggested it did when the team wasn't doing as well.

His play has been BRUTAL.

I really don't think there's any way to defend it.

There are probably some people who would have said that Bass is so bad that there is no way the Celtics could go on a run like this with Bass starting at PF.  Maybe those people need to readjust their assessment of Bass.

Similarly, the people who thought it was impossible without the Celtics adding some length may need to re-evaluate how much the team actually needs a 6'11" or 7'0" guy in the rotation.