In my heart, I want them to cut Collins and sign Downs...

[Reggie's Ghost]

The breakdown of Celtics' experience:

10+ Years: Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Jason Terry, Jason Collins, Chris Wilcox

5+ Years: Rajon Rondo, Brandon Bass, Darko Milicic,

>5 Years: Jeff Green, Avery Bradley, Courtney Lee,

0 Years: Jared Sullinger, Kris Joseph, Fab Melo, Micah Downs

Celtics two largest groups right now are their 10 Year vets and their rookies... I'd rather the team carries more 10+ year vets than young guys who have never actually played. And if that #15 player doesn't end up playing regardless I'd especially want him to be a vet who will be a positive addition for the locker room.

This is a great point, I get where you're coming from.  Are people saying that Collins is a dynamite locker room guy?  I've never heard that, but it would add to his value as the 14th/15th man...

[Rickretro]

I am with you 100 percent.  I am down with Downs! Looks like a pretty solid all around player imho.

[kozlodoev]

If you think Collins is a wasted roster spot then I don't know what that would make downs. Why take a guy who has never gotten an nba experience anywhere over a proven vet that can play meaningful minutes and be huge for us in the locker room? Makes no sense to me.

Joseph is giving you way more than Downs. If you're going to keep someone to be a fourth-stringer, a big man is a better choice than a wing. I don't think this is even worth discussing.

I want Melo as the fourth string Center.  I state in my OP that the big is the conventional choice.

I am not suggesting Joseph be cut, and I agree he's ahead of Downs. Read the OP.

Everyone stop discussing this! kozlodoev doesn't deem it worthy 

The point is that since (a) Joseph is giving us more than Downs, (b) they're essentially the same player, and (c) Joseph is, at best, the third stringer, it's a little bit more than conventional to cut Downs over just about anyone on the roster. Sorry, thought that was pretty obvious.

[Reggie's Ghost]

If you think Collins is a wasted roster spot then I don't know what that would make downs. Why take a guy who has never gotten an nba experience anywhere over a proven vet that can play meaningful minutes and be huge for us in the locker room? Makes no sense to me.

Joseph is giving you way more than Downs. If you're going to keep someone to be a fourth-stringer, a big man is a better choice than a wing. I don't think this is even worth discussing.

I want Melo as the fourth string Center.  I state in my OP that the big is the conventional choice.

I am not suggesting Joseph be cut, and I agree he's ahead of Downs. Read the OP.

Everyone stop discussing this! kozlodoev doesn't deem it worthy 

The point is that since (a) Joseph is giving us more than Downs, (b) they're essentially the same player, and (c) Joseph is, at best, the third stringer, it's a little bit more than conventional to cut Downs over just about anyone on the roster. Sorry, thought that was pretty obvious.

I know, its obvious to an intellectual giant like you, but to us simpletons it's a discussion.  One which you don't need to join if you think it's beneath you.  Is it ok for us peons to talk it through?

Joseph is your third stringer "at best"?  Tell me, who else might be the third string sf? If you think dumping a seemingly useless 5th stringer for a possibly useful 4th stringer is so obvious then apologies for dumbing down your day.

[Jon]

Absolutely not.  Not only won't it happen, it shouldn't happen. 

We have a project center in Melo; we don't need a second.  And as others have said, Collins will have value.  Not only will he be valuable against the likes of Howard and Bynum, he's also valuable in his ability to handle inconsistent minutes.  I'm not sure a young player can handle that. 

Plus, Downs, at best, is a guy whose upside is a fringe rotation player.  On a contending team, you don't cut a potentially valuable bench player in the interest of someone with that kind of upside. 

[Reggie's Ghost]

Absolutely not.  Not only won't it happen, it shouldn't happen. 

We have a project center in Melo; we don't need a second.  And as others have said, Collins will have value.  Not only will he be valuable against the likes of Howard and Bynum, he's also valuable in his ability to handle inconsistent minutes.  I'm not sure a young player can handle that. 

Plus, Downs, at best, is a guy whose upside is a fringe rotation player.  On a contending team, you don't cut a potentially valuable bench player in the interest of someone with that kind of upside.

This makes sense.  Truth is, though, we have more than one project player already (Sully, Joseph etc.), and again I cannot believe folks here are legitimately spouting this "Dwight Howard Stopper" stuff.  KG or Darko will have to be our Dwight Stoppers, and I believe in both of them much more than I do Collins.

I guess I'm not seeing the value in Collins that others here do, and I'd love nothing more than to be proven wrong, but I think even with the inexperience and unproven game Downs brings more to a position of greater need.  Anyway, glad I don't have to make these decisions, and WHEN Collins is on the floor in a Celtics uniform, I will root like hell for him.

I figure you can always cut Downs later on and make a run at Birdman or the like if you value bigs over 3s, but I'd rather have the bodies behind all positions for insurance.  We are so thin at SF that we cannot afford any injuries, never a good sign...

I wont like it though...

[action781]

The breakdown of Celtics' experience:

10+ Years: Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Jason Terry, Jason Collins, Chris Wilcox

5+ Years: Rajon Rondo, Brandon Bass, Darko Milicic,

>5 Years: Jeff Green, Avery Bradley, Courtney Lee,

0 Years: Jared Sullinger, Kris Joseph, Fab Melo, Micah Downs

Celtics two largest groups right now are their 10 Year vets and their rookies... I'd rather the team carries more 10+ year vets than young guys who have never actually played. And if that #15 player doesn't end up playing regardless I'd especially want him to be a vet who will be a positive addition for the locker room.

Very interesting spread of experience we have on this roster, I like it.  Thanks for pointing this out.

[Jon]

Absolutely not.  Not only won't it happen, it shouldn't happen. 

We have a project center in Melo; we don't need a second.  And as others have said, Collins will have value.  Not only will he be valuable against the likes of Howard and Bynum, he's also valuable in his ability to handle inconsistent minutes.  I'm not sure a young player can handle that. 

Plus, Downs, at best, is a guy whose upside is a fringe rotation player.  On a contending team, you don't cut a potentially valuable bench player in the interest of someone with that kind of upside.

This makes sense.  Truth is, though, we have more than one project player already (Sully, Joseph etc.), and again I cannot believe folks here are legitimately spouting this "Dwight Howard Stopper" stuff.  KG or Darko will have to be our Dwight Stoppers, and I believe in both of them much more than I do Collins.

I guess I'm not seeing the value in Collins that others here do, and I'd love nothing more than to be proven wrong, but I think even with the inexperience and unproven game Downs brings more to a position of greater need.  Anyway, glad I don't have to make these decisions, and WHEN Collins is on the floor in a Celtics uniform, I will root like hell for him.

I figure you can always cut Downs later on and make a run at Birdman or the like if you value bigs over 3s, but I'd rather have the bodies behind all positions for insurance.  We are so thin at SF that we cannot afford any injuries, never a good sign...

I wont like it though...

Collins isn't a Howard or Bynum stopped, but he's done a pretty good defensive job on big centers like them throughout the year. 

I agree that Collins won't be called on to play big minutes against the likes of Howard or Bynum; it will still be Garnett who gets the start and Darko who gets most of the backup minutes.  However, in a series against the Lakers or Sixers, there's bound to be at least a few games (if not more games) where KG and/or Darko get into foul trouble.  And in those games, having Collins be able to come in and play 5-10 good minutes of solid defense on a big center will be a valuable asset and potentially something that means the difference between advancing or not in a close series.

Micah Downs doesn't offer that. 

[rmitchell222003]

I rather have Ben Wallace then Collins

[nostar]

I don't even want to compare Collins to Downs. I know Jason can play proficient defense against bigs in the NBA. He's done it for years. I also know that 7ft is valuable in this league.

Micha Downs has done squat and in the preseason games he's looked like a d-league player at best. Give me Collins any day of the week.

[CapnDunks]

I can't imagine Downs seeing any meaningful minutes. If Pierce missed a lot of time I think Lee would see minutes at the 3 behind green. If Wilcox was healthy he could take time at the 4 to keep green at the 3. And then Joseph could get limited minutes.

Even if Collins doesn't live up to his post defender reputation. There will be plenty of times this season when we're relieved to have a BIG body and 6 fouls to throw at big centers.

[DarkAzcura]

Seeing as Darko and Wilcox have already had time off because of injury...I'll keep Collins.