Changes to starting lineup

[nickagneta]

Let me see if I have this right.

After Pierce plays two straight starts in which he averaged 33 MPG, 22.5 PPG, 7 RPG, 4.5 APG and shot 50% from both the field and three point land, someone is saying that it is best for the team if he comes off the bench?

Can someone please explain that logic because I'm just not getting it?

We have our first team with one great distributor,three great spot up shooters, and our ONLY player that can create his own offense in PP(he got counted as both)!
Our second team has no great distributor....not even a good one, really! One great spot up shooter, in BB, and no one that can create their own offense.
If the 1st unit gets off to a great start it's wonderful. Then the 2nd team grinds us to a halt, many times relinquishing the lead or a good part of it.  If first team starts out cold, we then bring in our second team that can't score! Big trouble!
Moving Greg to the first team makes him more effective because of RR, KG and Rays' passing. Quis is pretty much a wash.
Now you have PP on the second team who can create for himself, is a good passer and can work well scoring and getting BB the open shots. E'twuan from what small sample we've seen, can shoot it and create some on his own.  Just hasn't had the chance. Way more of a offensive threat than AB. JO is kind of a wash. Dooling is fair at both.
At least your offense doesn't grind to a halt when the big 4 aren't in! Not so many ups and downs, and I believe you'd see far less scoring droughts.

Here's a couple of things that aren't going to change and shouldn't:

This will be the starters when everyone is healthy:

Rondo
Allen
Pierce
Garnett
O'Neal

This will be the players on the court at the end of games barring injury or foul trouble:

Rondo
Allen
Pierce
Bass
Garnett

You want the second team to have more distributors, the keep Pierce and Garnett on the floor with 3 other bench players

You want more players that can create their own shot: Keep Pierce and Rondo on the floor with 3 bench players

You want more shooters on the floor, go small and have Stiemsma at C Bass at PF Allen at SF, Dooling at SG and Rondo at PG.

Your problem is shouldn't be with who starts and comes off the bench but how Doc mixes and matches his player substitutions.

BTW, Moore doesn't belong on the floor unless its garbage time. He's shown very little and doesn't deserve time over anyone playing in front of him.

[pearljammer10]

Wow. I don't like that idea at all.

[OhioGreen]

Your problem is shouldn't be with who starts and comes off the bench but how Doc mixes and matches his player substitutions.

You're right, it shouldn't be, but with Doc coaching, it is, as he tends to make wholesale changes of the 1st and 2nd units. He normally does that within a minute or two, so there is not really much overlap.

I would also disagree about E'Twuan as Doc more than once in camp/preseason said he was the best player on the floor at times. Many of the vets also lauded his play and veteran-like presence on the court. Did he just suddenly lose that when the bell rang for the start of the season? I think you'll see it as the season progresses and the losses start piling up and Doc decides he better give ET minutes!

[Jon]

Doc likely isn't going to change the starting lineup as long as everyone is healthy, so this point is essentially moot. 

And it really isn't that important anyway.  The starting lineup only really plays about 6 minutes together before subs start coming in.  And since subs are generally coming in 1-2 players at a time, and not 5 at once, I think the bigger debate is the best way to rotate players in and out of the lineup. 

Personally, I'd like to see Rondo come out early in the first (around the halfway point), get 2-3 minute break, and then come back for the rest of the first and beginning of the second to push the ball with the younger and more athletic second unit.  It'd be a great way to maximize their potential and get Rondo some easy assists while resting the older Big Three (plus JO). 

[the_Bird]

Am I the only one who thinks JO would respond really poorly to coming off the bench?  The second unit could use another guy who's not afraid to shoot, but I just he'd view it as a demotion and he'd start pouting. 

[BballTim]

Am I the only one who thinks JO would respond really poorly to coming off the bench?  The second unit could use another guy who's not afraid to shoot, but I just he'd view it as a demotion and he'd start pouting. 

  He came off the bench last year.

[Jon]

Am I the only one who thinks JO would respond really poorly to coming off the bench?  The second unit could use another guy who's not afraid to shoot, but I just he'd view it as a demotion and he'd start pouting. 

  He came off the bench last year.

Only for a little bit early in the season, and that was behind Shaq, a top 5 center of all time. 

I do think he wouldn't be happy coming off the bench behind Greg Stiesmsa. 

[Celtics4ever]

PP is going to start folks if he is healthy.  I don't think Doc completely trusts Sasha, I would bet money that he will play less once Pietrus comes back.  He has played him out of necessity only thus far.

[PosImpos]

Did we forget how this team played at the beginning of the year without Pierce in the starting lineup?

Apparently.

seconded

[Inside-Out]

Am I the only one who thinks JO would respond really poorly to coming off the bench?  The second unit could use another guy who's not afraid to shoot, but I just he'd view it as a demotion and he'd start pouting. 

Probably.

Doesn't say much about the guy, does it?

[Greenbean]

You start and end games with your best combination of players on offense and defense.

The sub patterns in between can dictate minutes played and lineup combinations.

I understand the idea of a 6th man, but you dont take your best two way player (good defender, great scorer) and put him as the 6th man especially since his replacement is Daniels.

[clover]

You start and end games with your best combination of players on offense and defense.

The sub patterns in between can dictate minutes played and lineup combinations.

I understand the idea of a 6th man, but you dont take your best two way player (good defender, great scorer) and put him as the 6th man especially since his replacement is Daniels.

I agree totally, though I'd say that Rondo is the team's best player at this stage of the Big Three's careers.

[Greenbean]

You start and end games with your best combination of players on offense and defense.

The sub patterns in between can dictate minutes played and lineup combinations.

I understand the idea of a 6th man, but you dont take your best two way player (good defender, great scorer) and put him as the 6th man especially since his replacement is Daniels.

I agree totally, though I'd say that Rondo is the team's best player at this stage of the Big Three's careers.

I agree, but as a 2 way player, like most complete, I would say it is still Pierce.

Kind of like how Patrice Bergeron is the rock of the Bruins becuase he is so solid on offense and defense.

[snively]

If we had a scoring 5, I could see the case for bringing Pierce off the bench.  We'd have enough scoring punch in the starting 5 to put a floor-spacing defender like Pietrus at the 3 to focus on defending the opposition's best wing.

Then bring in Pierce with the 2nd unit, where he'd face a weaker defensive unit, make his weaker teammates better and exert less energy defensively.  Then play him with the starters in the 4th quarter to field your best unit. 

I just don't think we have the personnel to allow such an unorthodox strategy.  We'd lose too much offensively with our starters.

[Carhole]

Your problem is shouldn't be with who starts and comes off the bench but how Doc mixes and matches his player substitutions.

You're right, it shouldn't be, but with Doc coaching, it is, as he tends to make wholesale changes of the 1st and 2nd units. He normally does that within a minute or two, so there is not really much overlap.

I would also disagree about E'Twuan as Doc more than once in camp/preseason said he was the best player on the floor at times. Many of the vets also lauded his play and veteran-like presence on the court. Did he just suddenly lose that when the bell rang for the start of the season? I think you'll see it as the season progresses and the losses start piling up and Doc decides he better give ET minutes!

If you really believe that Doc makes "wholesale" changes from 1st to second units why would you take your best most efficient offensive player and put him out there with lesser talent, all of the time? He will just get loaded up on, and this isnt 26 year old PP anymore, he isnt getting to the rim on loaded up defenses.

This idea comes up once a week. It will not ever happen with this team. Until PP slows down he is a starter.

And cant people see how much better the spacing is on O with the first unit when PP is out there as well as the rotations on D?

Yeah lets take our one advantage in most games, offensive and defensive continuity, and throw it out the window until the last 6 minutes of the game when we can play them all together. Because, all that matters is who finishes.