Celtics/OKC/Denver Trade Idea

[Vermont Green]

Coach K liked Westbrook for his team over Rondo because he didn't want someone who couldn't shoot on the floor.  That said, I still wouldn't trade Rondo and Green for him.  I think I would make the straight up trade though but with a hesitation as I describe below.

Westbrook is a better player and I think most coachs, like coach K, would put him on the floor over Rondo.  The short term problem for Celtics would be that Westbrook is a less mature player right now than Rondo.  This would be a bigger issue for the Celtics current team than for most teams.

And one more point, Coach K found a way to keep Westbrook from dribbling around while Durant and other olympians stood around and watched.  I think Doc could too.  I think Westbrook would pass plenty if on the Celtics, it just might take more than 1 season for him to make the adjustment, thus the short term problem for the Celtics.

[greenhead85]

I read that rumor more than a week ago. I didn't bother much to give it a serious thought. I must admit though that it addresses a jump shooting PG that we don't enjoy with Rondo.

However, if we are to give up Rajon and Jeff Green why don't we just send the two for CP3 and a 2012 2nd rounder from New Orleans instead? Westbrook though would keep the opposing teams on their toes on the offensive end and make more open looks for the Big 3 which is also luxury we could get from acquiring CP3.

[chambers]

So we lose Rondo and Green and get Westbrook back.
No thanks.

[wdleehi]

Coach K liked Westbrook for his team over Rondo because he didn't want someone who couldn't shoot on the floor.  That said, I still wouldn't trade Rondo and Green for him.  I think I would make the straight up trade though but with a hesitation as I describe below.

Westbrook is a better player and I think most coachs, like coach K, would put him on the floor over Rondo.  The short term problem for Celtics would be that Westbrook is a less mature player right now than Rondo.  This would be a bigger issue for the Celtics current team than for most teams.

And one more point, Coach K found a way to keep Westbrook from dribbling around while Durant and other olympians stood around and watched.  I think Doc could too.  I think Westbrook would pass plenty if on the Celtics, it just might take more than 1 season for him to make the adjustment, thus the short term problem for the Celtics.

That is the international game where there is more zone defense and teams need to shoot better. 


There are NBA players that are great in the NBA that are a bad fit for the international game because they don't shoot as well.  (example, Ben Wallace)

[Celtics4ever]

A lot of Coach K 's talent he has picked over the year hasn't exactly tore up the league.   Grant Hill was argubly the best Dukie but injury marred career clouds judgement.   A lot of great Duke guys barely panned out like Hurley.  I would not trust him as an evaulator of NBA talent the track record isn't there....

[2short]

Rondo is a better PG then Westbrook for this team.


I also think he is just a better PG. 



I would not make such a trade. 

agreed, I wouldn't trade rondo straight up for any pg but chris paul or deron williams and to throw in jeff green? ugh
I think westbrook has the talent base to improve and be a better pg in the nba but so does rondo.  Also westbrook taking shots that should have been durants in playoffs last year (more than once) make me cringe

[gpap]

Well from reading other posts on this, all I can say is I think Rondo is very overrated here in Boston (in my opinion.)

If you look at the rest of the league, I seriously doubt anyone values or looks at Rondo like we do.

Also, I don't think Rondo has turned or evolved into the point guard everyone says he will.

BUT that said, I would still try to trade him before his trade value completely diminishes.

People say his injury hampered his performance against Miami in the playoffs. But, the guy just can't shoot! If the Celts are to acheive offensively and take the brunt off the big 3, it will not happen with Rondo. And I am also still quite surprised that no one gives Rondo flack for his high turnovers.

As for Jeff Green, I am not quite sure why everyone thinks Jeff Green is suddenly an untouchable player. It also seems like some are still trying to see some sort of result from the Perkins trade.

Let it go. The trade happened. Time to move on and fix the team.

By the way, Westbrook and Howard could still be quite a tandem in 2012 and beyond. Again, just my two cents.

[Roy H.]

Coach K liked Westbrook for his team over Rondo because he didn't want someone who couldn't shoot on the floor.

Westbrook isn't much of a shooter.  In fact, he's arguably worse than Rondo:

Westbrook:

3-9 feet: 26.6%
10-15 feet: 35.8%
16-23 feet: 36.0%

eFG% on all jumpers: .373

Rondo:

3-9 feet: 27.6%
10-15 feet: 31.3%
16-23 feet: 41.0%

eFG% on all jumpers: .382

The big area of separation between the two isn't jump-shooting, but rather free throw shooting.  Rondo is at 56.8% (terrible), while Westbrook shoots 84.2% (very good).  Westbrook also shoots a bit better from three, although deep shooting isn't a strength for either.

Westbrook's scoring numbers look better than Rondo's, but a lot of that concerns their respective roles.  I think if Rondo was asked to be a primary scorer, he could get his scoring numbers up fairly substantially from where they are now.  Westbrook, on the other hand, will never be the passer that Rondo is.

[action781]

1. Rondo is better than Westbrook
5. Green and Rondo is bad value for Westbrook

1.  I think it's certainly not a fact that Rondo is better than Westbrook.  In my opinion, Westbrook is the better player.

5.  I agree for now.  But in a year from now, if Green doesn't make noticeable improvements in his game and we don't somehow land a #1 option like Dwight... I'd consider this trade.  I, like others, think Rondo is a better point guard for a loaded team, but that Westbrook is a better #1 option on a team.  And lets remember that Westbrook has only been playing point guard for a short time and it is a very difficult position to learn.

[syfy9]

Coach K liked Westbrook for his team over Rondo because he didn't want someone who couldn't shoot on the floor.

Westbrook isn't much of a shooter.  In fact, he's arguably worse than Rondo:

Westbrook:

3-9 feet: 26.6%
10-15 feet: 35.8%
16-23 feet: 36.0%

eFG% on all jumpers: .373

Rondo:

3-9 feet: 27.6%
10-15 feet: 31.3%
16-23 feet: 41.0%

eFG% on all jumpers: .382

The big area of separation between the two isn't jump-shooting, but rather free throw shooting.  Rondo is at 56.8% (terrible), while Westbrook shoots 84.2% (very good).  Westbrook also shoots a bit better from three, although deep shooting isn't a strength for either.

Westbrook's scoring numbers look better than Rondo's, but a lot of that concerns their respective roles.  I think if Rondo was asked to be a primary scorer, he could get his scoring numbers up fairly substantially from where they are now.  Westbrook, on the other hand, will never be the passer that Rondo is.

Exactly! Rondo's not the shooter he was in the past. He's improving, and is statistically better than Westbrook. I think people misjudge Rondo because of his inability to hit free throws. I am certain this is a mental/confidence issue more than a he just can't shoot issue.

[BballTim]

Well from reading other posts on this, all I can say is I think Rondo is very overrated here in Boston (in my opinion.)

If you look at the rest of the league, I seriously doubt anyone values or looks at Rondo like we do.

  Do you have any evidence that nobody else values Rondo? He never makes the all-star team, he never gets votes for all-nba teams, he never gets mentioned in discussions of best point guards, people would never list him among mvp camdidates? Anything like that? Anything aside from that?

Also, I don't think Rondo has turned or evolved into the point guard everyone says he will.

  He's arguably the best in the league in terms of passing, vision, running an offense and playing defense as well as being one of the best rebounders. What kind of pg were people expecting him to be?

People say his injury hampered his performance against Miami in the playoffs. But, the guy just can't shoot! If the Celts are to acheive offensively and take the brunt off the big 3, it will not happen with Rondo. And I am also still quite surprised that no one gives Rondo flack for his high turnovers.

  Because he doesn't have high turnovers? Because of his good assist/turnover ratio? Something like that maybe?

[nickagneta]

1. Rondo is better than Westbrook
5. Green and Rondo is bad value for Westbrook

1.  I think it's certainly not a fact that Rondo is better than Westbrook.  In my opinion, Westbrook is the better player.

5.  I agree for now.  But in a year from now, if Green doesn't make noticeable improvements in his game and we don't somehow land a #1 option like Dwight... I'd consider this trade.  I, like others, think Rondo is a better point guard for a loaded team, but that Westbrook is a better #1 option on a team.  And lets remember that Westbrook has only been playing point guard for a short time and it is a very difficult position to learn.

Exactly why is Westbrook a better player than Rondo?

Because he's a better defender...oops, he's not.
Because he's a better passer....oops, he's not.
Because he's a better outside shooter...oops, take a look at Roy's stats, he's not.
Because he's a better finisher....oops, he's not.
Because he will unconsciously continue to shoot the ball and not look for his teammates who are better scorers and shooters than he is and can shoot free throws at a decent clip...ahhh, that must be why!!!

I'll take Rondo every day over Westbrook as my PG, now and in the future. I've said it before I'll say it again, there is only one PG in the league I would trade Rondo for and that is Chris Paul.

[Vermont Green]

1. Rondo is better than Westbrook
5. Green and Rondo is bad value for Westbrook

1.  I think it's certainly not a fact that Rondo is better than Westbrook.  In my opinion, Westbrook is the better player.

5.  I agree for now.  But in a year from now, if Green doesn't make noticeable improvements in his game and we don't somehow land a #1 option like Dwight... I'd consider this trade.  I, like others, think Rondo is a better point guard for a loaded team, but that Westbrook is a better #1 option on a team.  And lets remember that Westbrook has only been playing point guard for a short time and it is a very difficult position to learn.

Exactly why is Westbrook a better player than Rondo?

Because he's a better defender...oops, he's not.
Because he's a better passer....oops, he's not.
Because he's a better outside shooter...oops, take a look at Roy's stats, he's not.
Because he's a better finisher....oops, he's not.
Because he will unconsciously continue to shoot the ball and not look for his teammates who are better scorers and shooters than he is and can shoot free throws at a decent clip...ahhh, that must be why!!!

I'll take Rondo every day over Westbrook as my PG, now and in the future. I've said it before I'll say it again, there is only one PG in the league I would trade Rondo for and that is Chris Paul.

Because the other team actually covers Westbrook when he has the ball. 

Shooting stats aren't apples to apples when one guy is covered and the other guy isn't.  I like Rondo and appreciate his game, toughness, etc, but that doesn't blind me from what to me is very obvious; he is a historically poor shooter so far in his career.  This is a major weakness that teams exploit.  Westbrook has weaknesses too, he is no Chris Paul at this point but I think Westbrook is slightly better than Rondo right now and seems to have more upside.

[BballTim]

1. Rondo is better than Westbrook
5. Green and Rondo is bad value for Westbrook

1.  I think it's certainly not a fact that Rondo is better than Westbrook.  In my opinion, Westbrook is the better player.

5.  I agree for now.  But in a year from now, if Green doesn't make noticeable improvements in his game and we don't somehow land a #1 option like Dwight... I'd consider this trade.  I, like others, think Rondo is a better point guard for a loaded team, but that Westbrook is a better #1 option on a team.  And lets remember that Westbrook has only been playing point guard for a short time and it is a very difficult position to learn.

Exactly why is Westbrook a better player than Rondo?

Because he's a better defender...oops, he's not.
Because he's a better passer....oops, he's not.
Because he's a better outside shooter...oops, take a look at Roy's stats, he's not.
Because he's a better finisher....oops, he's not.
Because he will unconsciously continue to shoot the ball and not look for his teammates who are better scorers and shooters than he is and can shoot free throws at a decent clip...ahhh, that must be why!!!

I'll take Rondo every day over Westbrook as my PG, now and in the future. I've said it before I'll say it again, there is only one PG in the league I would trade Rondo for and that is Chris Paul.

Because the other team actually covers Westbrook when he has the ball. 

Shooting stats aren't apples to apples when one guy is covered and the other guy isn't.  I like Rondo and appreciate his game, toughness, etc, but that doesn't blind me from what to me is very obvious; he is a historically poor shooter so far in his career.  This is a major weakness that teams exploit.  Westbrook has weaknesses too, he is no Chris Paul at this point but I think Westbrook is slightly better than Rondo right now and seems to have more upside.

  If Westbrook was on the court with Kevin and Paul and Ray opposing coaches would let him shoot until the cows came home. Rondo's smart enough to look for something better when he's open and 20 feet from the basket. Westbrook, not so much.