Author Topic: Why no mention of the JO flagrant?  (Read 3540 times)

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Re: Why no mention of the JO flagrant?
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2011, 02:20:26 PM »

Offline CelticG1

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Seriously some of you guys actually think this is a flagrant!?!?!?! Not an elbow, not excessive, not intentional, not hard, not anything. Literally the under part of his fore arm hits the top of his head. Isn't this just a foul? For all the talk about "playoff basketball" and being "physical" this is one of the flagrants they call? Just admit that it was a bad call and should not be a flagrant. Stop trying to be so impartial an unbiased and think about how lucky we would be if we got calls like this. I'd be chuckling to myself if Joel Anthony got called for a flagrant on something like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIL1b-Ch-m8

Haha before the foul it was 11-6 Celts. Next time the Celts got the ball back it was 12-11 Heat. What a joke

Re: Why no mention of the JO flagrant?
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2011, 02:24:55 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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Close call but Im not upset about it. JO did wind up and bring his arm back to create a swinging motion then clocked LeBron right in the head...

However, he was making a play on the ball and delivered a hard playoff foul.

im ok with the flagrant call as long as that becomes consistent.

Re: Why no mention of the JO flagrant?
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2011, 02:26:01 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Not all contact to the head is a flagrant foul.  There are several dimensions on which the foul is evaluated.

Intent to hurt or recklessness is the most obvious factor.  Whether or not the fouler is making a play at the ball also matters, although accidental contact when missing in an attempt to swipe at the ball can still be flagrant.  The harder a foul is, the more likely it is to be ruled flagrant, whether or not there is intent. 

The possibility of injury also matters.  A foul is more likely to be flagrant if it occurs when the fouled player is in a "vulnerable position."  For example, when a player is standing and holding the ball and a defender tries to poke it away and accidentally hits him in the head, that's different from a foul hitting a player in the head while he is in the air, especially if there is a chance the contact can whip his head back or cause him to land in a fashion where he can't protect himself from the fall.

A hard foul above the neck while a player is in the air, regardless of intent, seems to be a foul that the league would like to be ruled as flagrant.  This seems to be part of the concern in all sports about the effect of concussions on athletes.  Even non-concussive events that involve whiplash seem to have a cumulative effect, so it would be wise to prevent incidents where an athlete has his head snapped backward or where he takes a hard fall landing on his back.

Viewed through that lens, it seems like Jermaine O'Neal committed a non-malicious flagrant foul.
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Re: Why no mention of the JO flagrant?
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2011, 07:34:32 PM »

Offline CelticG1

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I would just like to point out the 3 or 4 plays so far in this game tonight where there has been more contact to the head on fouls than the JO one on Lebron.

None of these should have been Flagrants and neither should JO's

If they should be than you should expect 10 flagrants a game.

Not gonna lie I did gasp on that foul from Baby on Wade just cause that's the type of fould turned flagrant we've been getting jabbed with