Author Topic: Doc not taking advantage of talent we have on team.  (Read 2058 times)

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Doc not taking advantage of talent we have on team.
« on: April 10, 2011, 10:15:29 PM »

Offline Senninsage

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Look at just about every team in this league, even the bad ones that won't be making the playoffs. They allow their players to just play and take advantage of their offensive talents. The Celtics use to do the same. However, with all this obsession over Rondo's assists, and having him command the offense, Doc is effectively having every single talented player on his own team placed at a disadvantage on nearly every possession where they aren't playing instinctively based on their talent level, but are out there thinking too [dang] much. That is why the Celtics' offense stalls so much.

There are times when this style of play works, but teams have figured out how to disrupt it. Just prevent the Celtics from passing the ball around as easily as they like, and then suddenly the ball handler, no matter who it is, becomes clueless.

Look at how a team like the magic, and multiple other teams out there can have someone come off the bench and contribute? Ryan Anderson is a perfect example of this, and so are a multitude of other players.

It is no coincidence the new guys were all playing better before the practice sessions to get them up to speed. Where did Jeff Green's Pierce like step back 2 point jump shots go?

I guarantee if Troy Murphy, West or Pavlovic were on other teams, they'd be far more aggressive offensively. I'm not saying all of our players are offensive talents, but it's a [dang] shame that they aren't being properly utilized because of this obsession to play a specific way. How about allowing them to play with more freedom on the court?

If that were the case, this team's talent offensively would shine through on most nights, but instead we are sometimes struggling to score, and it isn't just against the elite teams. We are way too [dang] predictable. Teams know how much the Celtics are reliant on waiting for one of their talented players to be spoon fed the ball, as opposed to giving the team the freedom to improvise with their talent.

Von Wafer needs to be back into the lineup because he was learning how to do exactly that before he got hurt. Doc Rivers is putting too many robots out there, and who wasn't a robot before, he has managed to turn into one. We look so stiff on the court, whereas just about every other team in the league looks nice and smooth, even though a lot of them suck. Why is that?

Come the hell on, man. We turn the ball over as much as we do because we are relying on our talented players being spoonfed the ball, and th en they are expected to rush up shots. Notice the Celtics only play with some spontaneity is when they start getting embarrassed? Ray Allen actually created his own shot in the fourth quarter today after things were already too far gone. Why don't we see more of that sooner in the game?

I've read this blog for a long time, but I'm now officially p---ed off with the Celtics' play, and I'm a complete supporter of the trades made. Doc Rivers needs to start letting his [dang] team play.

The fact that we have paul pierce, kevin garnett, ray allen, jeff green, delonte west, glen davis etc, is irrelevant because of the style they are being forced to play with.

Re: Doc not taking advantage of talent we have on team.
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2011, 10:38:52 PM »

Offline FatjohnReturns

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excellent anaylsis 100% agree tp.





Re: Doc not taking advantage of talent we have on team.
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2011, 11:01:18 PM »

Offline letsgoblue86

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You really think it's Doc's fault?  A coach can motivate and teach, but he can't make baskets for a team.  It really comes down to the players in the end.  When the Celtics go out and give a half-(butt) effort you can't blame the coach.

Re: Doc not taking advantage of talent we have on team.
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2011, 12:59:22 AM »

Offline Senninsage

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Doc, can't go out there and make baskets for them, that's true. However, what's evident from the entire Celtics team, not just specific players, is that they are all playing with a certain style, a style that has clearly been demanded or instilled by their coach, and because of this, the Celtics have been heavily bogged down on the scoring front for a large part of last month, and it is carrying over into this month.

They were able to get away with what they were doing before when teams weren't playing the type of intense defense that most of them (certainly the Elite ones) are playing now, when we were actually given chances to play this chess game of let's see how we can get the easiest possible shot out of this possession. Sometimes we have to know that the easy shot isn't coming. We have to create something.

There's no way Doc can't see that he's indirectly stifling his own team's talent. I thought that Rondo's breakout in last year's playoffs was an exciting sign for this team for future seasons, but the more I look at it, the more I'm thinking it's precisely what may be the demise of this team in the playoffs.

They really need to stop relying so much on a style of offense that is so reliant on rondo spoon feeding everyone the ball, and then what hurts is that you see this mentality bleeding over onto the bench's style of play as well. The Celtics style was always make the extra pass, to get an even better shot, and that was fantastic because they knew that there had to be realistic limits on always trying to make that extra pass. Sometimes you don't make the extra pass, sometimes you man up and take the [dang] shot, and you as a talented player, try to make sure it goes in.

I see a team out there more concerned about getting a lot of assists or fancy thread the needle or outlet passes, rather than just scoring the [dang] ball however we can do it.

Take away just a small number of the Celtics' foolish gambles in both the Heat game and the Bulls game, and that changes a lot of things for us. The team is actually more in the game, than they are out of it Perhaps we aren't down by as many points, perhaps we aren't down at all, we're barely holding onto a 4 point lead.

This team can score if we actually had more opportunities to attempt to score, as opposed to forfeiting those opportunities, or wasting most of the shotclock throwing passes back and forth, not making any decent offensive execution progress at all, and then take a far worse shot than what we could have had if we only took a bit more initiative.
 
You hear all this rondo is the team's best player nonsense that carried over from last year's playoffs, and it is absolutely not true. Is he an important player? Yes he is, but in trying so hard to up Rondo's role on this team, they are also stifling far more proven offensive entities. Pierce isn't now suddenly too [dang] old to go for 30 point+ games if he has to. Ray Allen isn't too old to gamble more on creating his own shots however he can, and living with the consequences of a potential miss. There isn't a thing wrong with making Garnett take more shots than what he takes.

When these players, the big 3, start sending a message to some of these teams that they will be looking for their offense outside of these set plays, or this spoon fed by rondo style that they're busy buying into, it will open up opportunities for us elsewhere.

Last I checked, when Pierce, Allen and Garnett came together, we sure as heck weren't saying that we were going to make Rajon Rondo a primary focus of how we run our offense. That's just ridiculous. Because every team knows how much we are relying on rondo setting up our offense for us, it's so much easier to guard us now.

The focus starts with the big three, everything else outside of those 3 are the bonuses. That is what has made this team so dangerous over the years.


I watch games and I see teams not properly respecting just who the heck they're guarding. They're throwing just about anybody on our guys, and having them push up close because they know we'll be thinking pass first, or get it back to rondo before they feel they need to take the initiative offensively. I'm not saying that the Celtics shouldn't pass, I'm not saying that at all.

But less passing around the ball and doing nothing with it, or turning it over entirely, and start getting more [dang] shot attempts up there. This team can score, but we often times don't even get enough shot attempts to give ourselves a chance to win games. It angers me so much, man. What in the blue blazes is rondo doing holding onto the ball for these excessive stretches in our offensive possessions!?


The Boston Celtics are not playing to score, they are playing to rack up assists. One might say, "What the heck is the difference?", but trust me, there is a very, very big difference between trying to score, and trying to rack up assists for the sake of scoring with the help of an assist.

When this team was formed, the focus was on the big 3, not on rondo spoonfeeding our entire offense. Let's go back to what made this team dangerous. It's such a defeatist attitude when I hear players like Pierce, Garnett or Allen saying thins like "As Rondo goes, so does the team" or "He's the engine." No he's not the engine. He's an important role player that supports the real engine, Pierce, Garnett, Allen.

I honestly can't wait for us to have shaq playing for us again because I notice that the team doesn't fall into this ridiculous mentality nearly as much when he's on the court, and the chemistry on the court between Garnett and Shaq was unbelievable. That was pure and good instinctive basketball, and it made this team incredibly dangerous.

I've been really paying attention, and literally every team with some minor degree of talent on their roster, this includes bad teams too, has far superior ball movement than the Boston Celtics, and why is that? Why does every other team in the league not have as much trouble moving the ball around as the Celtics do? It's because there is a natural flaw in the way the Celtics are trying to play, and it starts with Doc having these incredibly talented players that fills out his roster, living or dying by rondo's ability to get them perfect passes all the time, even if it means Rondo must hold onto the ball for most of a possession, not doing much with it.

Re: Doc not taking advantage of talent we have on team.
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2011, 01:02:31 AM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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Every game he says they should go to the post more, it sounds like it's the players not taking advantage.

Re: Doc not taking advantage of talent we have on team.
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2011, 01:03:29 AM »

Offline Edgar

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Doc, can't go out there and make baskets for them, that's true. However, what's evident from the entire Celtics team, not just specific players, is that they are all playing with a certain style, a style that has clearly been demanded or instilled by their coach, and because of this, the Celtics have been heavily bogged down on the scoring front for a large part of last month, and it is carrying over into this month.

They were able to get away with what they were doing before when teams weren't playing the type of intense defense that most of them (certainly the Elite ones) are playing now, when we were actually given chances to play this chess game of let's see how we can get the easiest possible shot out of this possession. Sometimes we have to know that the easy shot isn't coming. We have to create something.

There's no way Doc can't see that he's indirectly stifling his own team's talent. I thought that Rondo's breakout in last year's playoffs was an exciting sign for this team for future seasons, but the more I look at it, the more I'm thinking it's precisely what may be the demise of this team in the playoffs.

They really need to stop relying so much on a style of offense that is so reliant on rondo spoon feeding everyone the ball, and then what hurts is that you see this mentality bleeding over onto the bench's style of play as well. The Celtics style was always make the extra pass, to get an even better shot, and that was fantastic because they knew that there had to be realistic limits on always trying to make that extra pass. Sometimes you don't make the extra pass, sometimes you man up and take the [dang] shot, and you as a talented player, try to make sure it goes in.

I see a team out there more concerned about getting a lot of assists or fancy thread the needle or outlet passes, rather than just scoring the [dang] ball however we can do it.

Take away just a small number of the Celtics' foolish gambles in both the Heat game and the Bulls game, and that changes a lot of things for us. The team is actually more in the game, than they are out of it Perhaps we aren't down by as many points, perhaps we aren't down at all, we're barely holding onto a 4 point lead.

This team can score if we actually had more opportunities to attempt to score, as opposed to forfeiting those opportunities, or wasting most of the shotclock throwing passes back and forth, not making any decent offensive execution progress at all, and then take a far worse shot than what we could have had if we only took a bit more initiative.
 
You hear all this rondo is the team's best player nonsense that carried over from last year's playoffs, and it is absolutely not true. Is he an important player? Yes he is, but in trying so hard to up Rondo's role on this team, they are also stifling far more proven offensive entities. Pierce isn't now suddenly too [dang] old to go for 30 point+ games if he has to. Ray Allen isn't too old to gamble more on creating his own shots however he can, and living with the consequences of a potential miss. There isn't a thing wrong with making Garnett take more shots than what he takes.

When these players, the big 3, start sending a message to some of these teams that they will be looking for their offense outside of these set plays, or this spoon fed by rondo style that they're busy buying into, it will open up opportunities for us elsewhere.

Last I checked, when Pierce, Allen and Garnett came together, we sure as heck weren't saying that we were going to make Rajon Rondo a primary focus of how we run our offense. That's just ridiculous. Because every team knows how much we are relying on rondo setting up our offense for us, it's so much easier to guard us now.

The focus starts with the big three, everything else outside of those 3 are the bonuses. That is what has made this team so dangerous over the years.


I watch games and I see teams not properly respecting just who the heck they're guarding. They're throwing just about anybody on our guys, and having them push up close because they know we'll be thinking pass first, or get it back to rondo before they feel they need to take the initiative offensively. I'm not saying that the Celtics shouldn't pass, I'm not saying that at all.

But less passing around the ball and doing nothing with it, or turning it over entirely, and start getting more [dang] shot attempts up there. This team can score, but we often times don't even get enough shot attempts to give ourselves a chance to win games. It angers me so much, man. What in the blue blazes is rondo doing holding onto the ball for these excessive stretches in our offensive possessions!?


The Boston Celtics are not playing to score, they are playing to rack up assists. One might say, "What the heck is the difference?", but trust me, there is a very, very big difference between trying to score, and trying to rack up assists for the sake of scoring with the help of an assist.

When this team was formed, the focus was on the big 3, not on rondo spoonfeeding our entire offense. Let's go back to what made this team dangerous. It's such a defeatist attitude when I hear players like Pierce, Garnett or Allen saying thins like "As Rondo goes, so does the team" or "He's the engine." No he's not the engine. He's an important role player that supports the real engine, Pierce, Garnett, Allen.

I honestly can't wait for us to have shaq playing for us again because I notice that the team doesn't fall into this ridiculous mentality nearly as much when he's on the court, and the chemistry on the court between Garnett and Shaq was unbelievable. That was pure and good instinctive basketball, and it made this team incredibly dangerous.

I've been really paying attention, and literally every team with some minor degree of talent on their roster, this includes bad teams too, has far superior ball movement than the Boston Celtics, and why is that? Why does every other team in the league not have as much trouble moving the ball around as the Celtics do? It's because there is a natural flaw in the way the Celtics are trying to play, and it starts with Doc having these incredibly talented players that fills out his roster, living or dying by rondo's ability to get them perfect passes all the time, even if it means Rondo must hold onto the ball for most of a possession, not doing much with it.


i like your post


p.s, and your nick as long as its naruto related
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