Can we now admit Rondo is the MVP of this team?

[Edgar]

I dont know about MVP
but i am sure hes our PG
games that your PG stink most likely you will lose

[Celtics/Run]

Yeah, he is, and we're in trouble.  Rondo has been BAD lately.  Even when he's good, he's very limited.  I'm not convinced a team with Rondo as its MVP can win a title.

They were a pathetic Ray Allen away from winning the title with Rondo as finals MVP.

They were a decent rebounding front court and a crunch-time offense that can actually score away from winning it all with probably Paul getting finals MVP.  If you'll recall, Rondo only actually had one or two really solid games in the Finals because he burnt himself out carrying the team through the 2nd round (and the ECF).

That's my point, really.  Even when he's playing his best, Rondo can only sustain that kind of play for short periods of time.  He doesn't have the stamina to carry a team over a long period (even for more than a series or two) because it requires so much sacrifice of his body to carry the team. 

He doesn't have the strength or size of a player like Wade, Westbrook, or Rose or the offensive skills of a player like Chris Paul, Deron Williams, or Steve Nash to consistently dominate without totally sacrificing his body.

Rondo clearly won two playoff series. That is sustained play at it's finest.

Sustained for two series.  He can't carry a team throughout the playoffs . . . and that's probably what would be needed for this team to win a championship.

He also can't carry a team through the regular season, by the way, which is why our team is faltering down the stretch while the Bulls are chugging forward at a good pace.

Rebounding is carrying the Bulls right now and for most of the season. The Celtics don't reinforce rebounding.

Having a player who can score when the team absolutely needs points by forcing his way inside and finishing or getting to the line is also carrying the Bulls.  In some of their closer games recently Rose has literally taken all of their shots late in the game and scored all of their points.  That's not an efficient offense, but it's enough to ensure that when the game is on the line, they have a guy they can depend on.  The Celtics have no such player.  Rondo is nowhere close to being that kind of player.  If the Celtics have one huge glaring weakness, it is that.  No superstar, no true closer, no transcendent offensive force.  Paul can give us an analog for that at times, but only in short bursts.

I rather have Pierce taking that shot than Rose. Most nights he takes 20 plus shots and makes less than half of them. But due to their great rebounding on the offensive/defensive ends they get away with it. And their defense of course.

[PosImpos]

Yeah, he is, and we're in trouble.  Rondo has been BAD lately.  Even when he's good, he's very limited.  I'm not convinced a team with Rondo as its MVP can win a title.

They were a pathetic Ray Allen away from winning the title with Rondo as finals MVP.

They were a decent rebounding front court and a crunch-time offense that can actually score away from winning it all with probably Paul getting finals MVP.  If you'll recall, Rondo only actually had one or two really solid games in the Finals because he burnt himself out carrying the team through the 2nd round (and the ECF).

That's my point, really.  Even when he's playing his best, Rondo can only sustain that kind of play for short periods of time.  He doesn't have the stamina to carry a team over a long period (even for more than a series or two) because it requires so much sacrifice of his body to carry the team. 

He doesn't have the strength or size of a player like Wade, Westbrook, or Rose or the offensive skills of a player like Chris Paul, Deron Williams, or Steve Nash to consistently dominate without totally sacrificing his body.

Rondo clearly won two playoff series. That is sustained play at it's finest.

Sustained for two series.  He can't carry a team throughout the playoffs . . . and that's probably what would be needed for this team to win a championship.

He also can't carry a team through the regular season, by the way, which is why our team is faltering down the stretch while the Bulls are chugging forward at a good pace.

Rebounding is carrying the Bulls right now and for most of the season. The Celtics don't reinforce rebounding.

Having a player who can score when the team absolutely needs points by forcing his way inside and finishing or getting to the line is also carrying the Bulls.  In some of their closer games recently Rose has literally taken all of their shots late in the game and scored all of their points.  That's not an efficient offense, but it's enough to ensure that when the game is on the line, they have a guy they can depend on.  The Celtics have no such player.  Rondo is nowhere close to being that kind of player.  If the Celtics have one huge glaring weakness, it is that.  No superstar, no true closer, no transcendent offensive force.  Paul can give us an analog for that at times, but only in short bursts.

I rather have Pierce taking that shot than Rose. Most nights he takes 20 plus shots and makes less than half of them. But due to their great rebounding on the offensive/defensive ends they get away with it. And their defense of course.

Pierce can't take it inside the way Rose can, even if he is a better clutch outside shooter.  I'd rather depend on pounding it inside late in a game than dieing by the outside shot, which the Celtics do all too often.  When your team is not very good at rebounding, it's especially dangerous to rely on outside shots late in the game - and the Celtics are not very good at rebounding.

[KobeShesNotConsenting!]

No, i can't put him ahead of KG. I think he's the mvp of our offense though. He's the guy that gets everyone goin offensively just like KG gets us goin defensively. I've always said he's as important to our offense as KG is to our defense. What puts KG a lil over the top for me is he gives 102% every single night while rondo...

[rohanzsta]

No matter what goes on, as long as Pierce is on this team, he is team captain and shot caller of our offense.

And as long as KG is a part of this team, he is team captain of our defense.

Rondo is not MVP in either categories. It's hard to admit, but the sooner that we do, the quicker we can improve.

[IrishGreen]

Pierce is the shot caller on our offense?

All he tries to do is run plays for "and one's".

In my opinion, he slows down our offense at times because all he wants to do iso with his man. He can't get round picks as quick anymore and when he does his first move is to up fake.

[OsirusCeltics]

Yeah, he is, and we're in trouble.  Rondo has been BAD lately.  Even when he's good, he's very limited.  I'm not convinced a team with Rondo as its MVP can win a title.

They were a pathetic Ray Allen away from winning the title with Rondo as finals MVP.

Well, Ron Artest's knee to the thigh in Game 3 made Ray pathetic. Dirty Lakers smh  

[scaryjerry]

Yeah, he is, and we're in trouble.  Rondo has been BAD lately.  Even when he's good, he's very limited.  I'm not convinced a team with Rondo as its MVP can win a title.

They were a pathetic Ray Allen away from winning the title with Rondo as finals MVP.

A pathetic Ray Allen? Ray Allen pretty much single-handedly won a finals game all by himself. How quickly we forget.

rondo has a triple double in that game

[BballTim]

Yeah, he is, and we're in trouble.  Rondo has been BAD lately.  Even when he's good, he's very limited.  I'm not convinced a team with Rondo as its MVP can win a title.

They were a pathetic Ray Allen away from winning the title with Rondo as finals MVP.

A pathetic Ray Allen? Ray Allen pretty much single-handedly won a finals game all by himself. How quickly we forget.

  One good half of one game actually, and the first half of that. We'd have lost that game but for all the big plays Rondo made at the end. How quickly we go into denial.

[CoachBo]

Ah, yes. The "past history" argument. I used to love that one from parents when I coached HS ball. Little Jimmy played great. Last year.

What happened last year, last month, etc. is absolutely irrelevant. Rondo is playing some of the worst basketball of his career. He is not alone. Others on this team are playing badly, too.

Despite what many of you so desperately want to believe, this is a team game. We didn't get to this low point just because of Rondo.

Is he part of the problem? You bet. Is he the entire problem? Absolutely not. And what he did in the playoffs last year is absolutely meaningless to this season.

At this point, all the alibis for your favorite player are Fools Gold. I don't care if Rondo's dinged up and I certainly don't care if he still doesn't like the Perkins trade. I don't care if Pierce is tired. I don't care if Davis' leg is sore. And so on and so on.

If anyone or a group can't go full tilt at this point, then let's sit them down and get some minutes for the newbs. Because this level of performance isn't acceptable - from anyone, including He Who Never Does Wrong, Number 9.

[BballTim]

Ah, yes. The "past history" argument. I used to love that one from parents when I coached HS ball.

What happened last year, last month, etc. is absolutely irrelevant. Rondo is playing some of the worst basketball of his career. He is not alone. Others on this team are playing badly, too.

Despite what many of you so desperately want to believe, this is a team game. We didn't get to this low point just because of Rondo.

Is he part of the problem? You bet. Is he the entire problem? Absolutely not. And what he did in the playoffs last year is absolutely meaningless to this season.

  It is meaningless and it isn't. His past play doesn't excuse his poor play or make it less poor. It gives you the perspective that he isn't a poor player, but for some reason he's playing well below his capabilities, as well as the expectation that he'll be playing at a high level once whatever's ailing him passes. Kind of like with last year's Celts, where the first third of the season clearly showed that they were title contenders. A stretch of bad play didn't change that.

[CoachBo]

So who in the NBA, then, meets the definition of an always poor player?

It's obvious that professional players are good, otherwise they don't make an NBA team, don't you think? It goes without saying that Rondo can play better than he's playing now. Same for Pierce, Garnett, Allen, Davis, et al. But they're not.

I would anticipate that Doc, Ainge and the staff are looking for reasons why specific players - Rondo included - are playing at or near the worst levels of their career, not searching for alibis.

The true issue now is elevating the results this team produces. Rondo's career lows in play quality are part of that mix, but not all of it. In the meantime, what he and his teammates did last year means absolutely nothing, because none of them are approaching that level. Team sports is the here and now. Not yesterday.

[BballTim]

So who in the NBA, then, meets the definition of an always poor player?

It's obvious that professional players are good, otherwise they don't make an NBA team, don't you think?

  That's kind of a meaningless statement. There have been plenty of nba players that you'd label as "always poor players". Patrick O'Bryant, anyone?

It goes without saying that Rondo can play better than he's playing now. Same for Pierce, Garnett, Allen, Davis, et al. But they're not.

  Maybe to you and me, not to everyone. A lot of people will tell anyone that will listen that Rondo's not a top player that's currently playing well below his level, but he's a poor player.

I would anticipate that Doc, Ainge and the staff are looking for reasons why specific players - Rondo included - are playing at or near the worst levels of their career, not searching for alibis.

  Wouldn't you agree that the only difference between the reason a player's playing poorly and an alibi is whether you believe the reason? KG was playing poorly last year mainly because he was playing on an injured knee. Was this an excuse or an alibi? Should it have been ignored because everyone else in the league is nicked up this time of year?

  I'd guess that they have a pretty good idea what's going on with the players, and I'd guess that you'd be quick to label many of the specific reasons "alibis".

The true issue now is elevating the results this team produces. Rondo's career lows in play quality are part of that mix, but not all of it. In the meantime, what he and his teammates did last year means absolutely nothing, because none of them are approaching that level. Team sports is the here and now. Not yesterday.

  So if the team plays better in the playoffs it will be an amazing coincidence that nobody could have possibly predicted?

[Marcus13]

Idk - I still don't think he's the most important player, but he has the most important role.

Virtually any pass-first PG could do his job on this team