A franchise PG that shoots 53 percent FT's will not pan out

[nickagneta]

I agree it's unacceptable. If the current regime isn't working, then the Cs should hire a free-throw shooting coach, a reputed specialist like Palubinskas for example, and "ask" Rondo to work with him. Even Shaq shot his free-throws at nearly 70% when he was properly coached.

When exactly did Shaq ever shoot 70% from the line in a season? Did I miss something?

Yeps, you missed my post. I never said he shot 70% from the line in a season, I said he shot "nearly at 70%" when he was properly coached. Then he decided he didn't need to be coached any more, so his efficiency dropped again.

O'Neal reached a low point in his free throw shooting during the 2000-2001 season, finding himself at a miserable 38% on the season in December 2000. At that time, the Lakers hired Ed Palubinskas, a 90% free throw shooter during his own playing days, to help coach O'Neal. The tactic seemed to eventually pay dividends and O'Neal shot almost 68% over the last 15 games of that season, prompting O'Neal at one point to loudly bark, "It doesn't work any more!" at his opposition when the Hack-a-Shaq strategy was being used.

Ultimately however, O'Neal ceased his work with Palubinskas and has since been unable to maintain the level of success he found late in that 2000-2001 season.

Rondo got shooting coaching and instruction from Mark Price, a great shooter. He has Ray Allen on his team and a great coaching staff at his disposal. Give him time. It's only December. He shot 38% from the line in November and 61% from the line in December. I think improvement is coming. Mark Price even said in an interview that we would notice the difference in his shooting towards the end of the year, not the beginning. Rondo has never done anything for me not to trust him, his talent or his work ethic. I expect improvement and am willing to be patient with him.

How many time has Rondo worked with Mark Price? Two days?

You're saying a 15 game stretch of heightened free throw shooting is proof of proper coaching? 15 games? So was he getting proper coaching between 12/3/08 and 1/18/09 when he went 91 for 133 shooting 68.4% during that 15 game span? Or what about between 2/23/2003 and 3/31/2003 went 157 for 236 shooting 66.6% during that 20 game span?

Isn't it just as likely that he just had another good stretch because he was paying attention to what he was doing rather than good coaching? Because obviously, he did have equally good stretches without that special coaching as he had when he was supposedly getting his good coaching.

Me? I thought Phil Jackson said it too. And I thought it was quite visible (and consensual) that he was finally being consistent with a motion and looking more comfortable. But maybe Shaq was right in firing the coach and the Lakers organization was wrong in wanting him to keep working.

I really don't see the downside here. If something isn't working, why wouldn't one try to fix it? Rondo still has too many moving parts in his motion. Ainge and the staff are the ones who have more insight on how much it's worth waiting for results, but as I've said, if the current regime isn't working, then it's time to consider moving on with more drastic measures and hire a full-time FT shooting instructor.

Because he already has proven coaching working with him and has sought out the advice and coaching of someone already. Proper long term coaching takes time and sometimes when one changes a motion or shot, one might see regression before progression. As I said, some patience and trust in what he has done is needed.

Tiger Woods has changed has swing twice since he became a pro and twice he got worse before getting better. Pitchers change their mechanics in baseball and sometimes it takes a while for the change to become natural.

What I am trying to say is you and others are being hasty in the "if the current regime isn't working"  then change stuff attitude. The team, coaching staff and Rondo initiated a change during the summer. They said give him the season to see proper results. I'm going to place my trust in the changes they have already made and wait to see if they are effective long term before hiring someone else.

And just so we are clear, Rondo didn't work with Price for two days. He worked with him all summer every day in Atlanta:

http://mobile.celticsblog.com/2009/9/30/1061742/csn-rondo-worked-with-mark-price

Former Providence coach Tim Welsh said on CSN that Rondo went to Atlanta and worked with Mark Price on his shooting all summer. Welsh said before Rondo was a bad shooter and now he is an average shooter. Apparently Rondo has corrected the flaw in his shooting form.

Welsh said Rondo worked out every day all summer with Price and that he's keeping his elbow in now. Welsh expects him to take many jumpers in preseason to get his confidence

[cornbreadsmart]

euros also use a smaller ball. that helps.

[scoop]

I agree it's unacceptable. If the current regime isn't working, then the Cs should hire a free-throw shooting coach, a reputed specialist like Palubinskas for example, and "ask" Rondo to work with him. Even Shaq shot his free-throws at nearly 70% when he was properly coached.

When exactly did Shaq ever shoot 70% from the line in a season? Did I miss something?

Yeps, you missed my post. I never said he shot 70% from the line in a season, I said he shot "nearly at 70%" when he was properly coached. Then he decided he didn't need to be coached any more, so his efficiency dropped again.

O'Neal reached a low point in his free throw shooting during the 2000-2001 season, finding himself at a miserable 38% on the season in December 2000. At that time, the Lakers hired Ed Palubinskas, a 90% free throw shooter during his own playing days, to help coach O'Neal. The tactic seemed to eventually pay dividends and O'Neal shot almost 68% over the last 15 games of that season, prompting O'Neal at one point to loudly bark, "It doesn't work any more!" at his opposition when the Hack-a-Shaq strategy was being used.

Ultimately however, O'Neal ceased his work with Palubinskas and has since been unable to maintain the level of success he found late in that 2000-2001 season.

Rondo got shooting coaching and instruction from Mark Price, a great shooter. He has Ray Allen on his team and a great coaching staff at his disposal. Give him time. It's only December. He shot 38% from the line in November and 61% from the line in December. I think improvement is coming. Mark Price even said in an interview that we would notice the difference in his shooting towards the end of the year, not the beginning. Rondo has never done anything for me not to trust him, his talent or his work ethic. I expect improvement and am willing to be patient with him.

How many time has Rondo worked with Mark Price? Two days?

You're saying a 15 game stretch of heightened free throw shooting is proof of proper coaching? 15 games? So was he getting proper coaching between 12/3/08 and 1/18/09 when he went 91 for 133 shooting 68.4% during that 15 game span? Or what about between 2/23/2003 and 3/31/2003 went 157 for 236 shooting 66.6% during that 20 game span?

Isn't it just as likely that he just had another good stretch because he was paying attention to what he was doing rather than good coaching? Because obviously, he did have equally good stretches without that special coaching as he had when he was supposedly getting his good coaching.

Me? I thought Phil Jackson said it too. And I thought it was quite visible (and consensual) that he was finally being consistent with a motion and looking more comfortable. But maybe Shaq was right in firing the coach and the Lakers organization was wrong in wanting him to keep working.

I really don't see the downside here. If something isn't working, why wouldn't one try to fix it? Rondo still has too many moving parts in his motion. Ainge and the staff are the ones who have more insight on how much it's worth waiting for results, but as I've said, if the current regime isn't working, then it's time to consider moving on with more drastic measures and hire a full-time FT shooting instructor.

Because he already has proven coaching working with him and has sought out the advice and coaching of someone already. Proper long term coaching takes time and sometimes when one changes a motion or shot, one might see regression before progression. As I said, some patience and trust in what he has done is needed.

Tiger Woods has changed has swing twice since he became a pro and twice he got worse before getting better. Pitchers change their mechanics in baseball and sometimes it takes a while for the change to become natural.

What I am trying to say is you and others are being hasty in the "if the current regime isn't working"  then change stuff attitude. The team, coaching staff and Rondo initiated a change during the summer. They said give him the season to see proper results. I'm going to place my trust in the changes they have already made and wait to see if they are effective long term before hiring someone else.

And just so we are clear, Rondo didn't work with Price for two days. He worked with him all summer every day in Atlanta:

http://mobile.celticsblog.com/2009/9/30/1061742/csn-rondo-worked-with-mark-price

Former Providence coach Tim Welsh said on CSN that Rondo went to Atlanta and worked with Mark Price on his shooting all summer. Welsh said before Rondo was a bad shooter and now he is an average shooter. Apparently Rondo has corrected the flaw in his shooting form.

Welsh said Rondo worked out every day all summer with Price and that he's keeping his elbow in now. Welsh expects him to take many jumpers in preseason to get his confidence

That link leads me to some other fans forum. I recall Price himself saying that Rondo made 2 or 3 trips to his shooting camp during the Summer. And it's not like Price can work with every one. Heck, Daniels spent an entire Summer in his camp and he didn't improve his shooting a bit.

Basically, the way I see it, Rondo started the season with a new motion, pushing the ball from above his forehead with his forearm and wrist (a la Mark Price). But lately - or not so lately, it's been going for awhile - he's been returning to his old way of shooting initiating the motion with the ball to the side of his head and extending the arm. It seems to me he's been experimenting with the 2 motions. If I were seeing him always following the same motion, then I'd be less concerned (or I wouldn't be concerned at all), but I doubt he'll ever improve significantly without being consistent with his mechanics.

[scoop]

euros also use a smaller ball. that helps.

Huh? Where did you get this from?

[nickagneta]

Basically, the way I see it, Rondo started the season with a new motion, pushing the ball from above his forehead with his forearm and wrist (a la Mark Price). But lately - or not so lately, it's been going for awhile - he's been returning to his old way of shooting initiating the motion with the ball to the side of his head and extending the arm. It seems to me he's been experimenting with the 2 motions. If I were seeing him always following the same motion, then I'd be less concerned (or I wouldn't be concerned at all), but I doubt he'll ever improve significantly without being consistent with his mechanics.

This is all 100% true. But I see it more that he's fighting his way through getting the old way out of his system. He definitely was using a different motion, as you described, with his elbow in and not extended, but has also definitely regressed. Though I see the regression more in his mid range shot than his free throw shooting. I  see him before free throws doing a correction motion before the shot, purposely trying to teach himself to keep the arm in and the ball higher. It seems to keep his free throw form a bit more consistent but the correction at times looks like it is throwing him off balance a bit.

I can only go by what I read from a couple of sources about the time he worked with Price. I never saw Price's comment on the situation but I'll take your word for it. Still, switching to a whole new motion is something that takes time and I think we have to be patient here. If at the end of the year the monthly splits aren't showing some results on progression, then definitely bring in someone to work with him further. But work with what you have and what has been changed because starting over again, IMO, would be detrimental. Adjust what he has.

I like what he has been taught and I think it can work for him but he, more than anyone else, is going to have to be the one that is more disciplined about what he's doing. I think he's gotten the proper coaching and changes. He needs to implement them properly. Unfortunately, he was doing things so poorly for so long overcoming what is natural to him is going to be a tough, long journey.

[Scribbles]

I said it in a above atatement, his hands are too BIG to be a great FT shooter. Which puts him in the Center category so dont expect more than a career 60-65% shooter at best. He doesnt have little hands like Mark Price, he needs instruction from someone with the same problem.

I've had the great chance to play with some kids with good height in high school, including one that is 6'10.  Last season in the sectional finals he was 1-10 from the line. We lost in double overtime by 4. He also shot 48% from the line that season.  He has big hands.  What did he do? He practiced until he found a form that worked and allowed to him to make a 8/10 from the line every time. This year he's shooting just below 85%.  Shooting, that includes from the foul line, as everyone knows is repetition.  Its obvious Rondo isn't practicing foul shots, or at least not enough, which at this point based on the stats, he needs to be doing.  Saying he has large hands is just an excuse. 

I will say Rondo does bring a lot to the team, but to shoot that poorly from the line is just a joke. 

[vinnie]

The big hands excuse guys in this thread make me laugh. Rondo is on his way to becoming a great player. His free throw shooting has gotten worse this year than last. My question continues to be why has that happened? What happened over the summer that brought him from a 64 percent shooter to 53 percent? Point guards, no matter how good they are, MUST make free throws. It's a pretty simple concept in my mind.

[nickagneta]

The big hands excuse guys in this thread make me laugh. Rondo is on his way to becoming a great player. His free throw shooting has gotten worse this year than last. My question continues to be why has that happened? What happened over the summer that brought him from a 64 percent shooter to 53 percent? Point guards, no matter how good they are, MUST make free throws. It's a pretty simple concept in my mind.

Last year Rondo had a month where he shot nearly 76% for the month. If he has a January like that, say where he goes 38 for 50, he'll be shooting 62% for the season and this conversation about his free throw shooting getting worse will be over. He made strides from November to December and a expect another progression as he gets used to his new form. Patience.

[Redz]

What is the definition of "not panning out"?

He's a better player by leaps and bounds than he was two years and they won the title.  They were a game away from reaching the ECF last year with him as their point guard and the NBA Defensive Player of the Year absent.  They're a couple games behind in the race for best record in the league this season.

He hits his free throws last night and the game still likely goes to OT when Davis hits the buzzer beater.

Things are panning out fine.  He's improved since the disastrous start at the line and it's reasonable to assume he will continue to do so.

I've got no worries about Rondo at this point.

[RJ87]

All I can say is I love everyone defending Rondo and his 53 percent free throw shooting. The OP is right: 53 percent free throw shooting is not acceptable for a starting point guard. And FYI, while not much better, during the championship season he shot 61 percent from the line and last year he was 64 percent from the line. So why the decline?

He made serious changes to his form during this past offseason, so of course there's gonna be a decline while adjusts to using it in game situations. Anyone who's ever played know's shooting form relies a bit on muscle memory, so when you tinker with it, it takes awhile to readjust - and it'll get worse before it gets better.

As I've said before, anyone who is expecting him to become a 90% FT shooter overnight is being ridiculous.

[nickagneta]

Found this article regarding Price working with Rondo:

http://www.eagletribune.com/pusports/local_story_314002241.html

Some highlights:

Shooting coach Mark Price says don't expect things to change over night and don't expect miracles. But he says by the time the playoffs come around in April, you should expect Rajon Rondo to shoot the ball better than he ever has before......

On three occasions this past off-season, Rondo, made the trip from Louisville, his hometown, to Atlanta to work Price.

"I've had guys whose shots looked a whole lot worse," said Price. "It wasn't a total remake of his shot."

But Price immediately noticed few flaws.

Rondo starts shooting the ball almost on top of his shoulder, which is too far back. And, he takes too long to release the ball.

"Rajon brings the ball back behind his head a little bit. Good shooters should keep the ball out in front a little bit," said Price. "The other thing is his elbow has a tendency to fly out a little bit. We tried to keep his elbows in. He also has a tendency on 'the catch' to throw his elbows out. When you do that, you have to move them back in to get the shot up. That was one of the things slowing down his release a bit."

Another issue Rondo has is shooting off the dribble.

"He has a tendency to play standing straight up," said Price. "You want to be in playing position, more in ready position.".....

Price said that it will take patience for the fans and, especially, Rondo, to wait this transformation out.

Just like when Tiger Woods changed his golf swing in 2005.

"The hardest thing is you miss a shots and struggle for a while. The temptation is to go back to the old way," said Price.

"I like Rajon because he's a worker and he wants to be great," said Price. "He tried to implement the stuff we talked about. It's going to take time. The next step is taking it from the practice floor into the game and sticking with it."

Couple points.

One, Rondo traveled down to Atlanta to work with him three times. That doesn't mean three days. I seriously doubt that he flew down there and spent one day working with him each time. That makes zero sense logically or from any type of business perspective.

Two, as I have been saying, have patience. Price even comments that Rondo would probably be reverting back to his old ways if he struggled with his mechanics and the author of the article even referenced the same analogy of Tiger Woods remade swing. Price says by April things they did would be paying dividends. I believe him. He's was an amazing shooter and is as qualified a shooting coach as anyone.

[ChainSmokingLikeDino]

Found this article regarding Pfice working with Rondo:

http://www.eagletribune.com/pusports/local_story_314002241.html

Some highlights:

Shooting coach Mark Price says don't expect things to change over night and don't expect miracles. But he says by the time the playoffs come around in April, you should expect Rajon Rondo to shoot the ball better than he ever has before......

On three occasions this past off-season, Rondo, made the trip from Louisville, his hometown, to Atlanta to work Price.

"I've had guys whose shots looked a whole lot worse," said Price. "It wasn't a total remake of his shot."

But Price immediately noticed few flaws.

Rondo starts shooting the ball almost on top of his shoulder, which is too far back. And, he takes too long to release the ball.

"Rajon brings the ball back behind his head a little bit. Good shooters should keep the ball out in front a little bit," said Price. "The other thing is his elbow has a tendency to fly out a little bit. We tried to keep his elbows in. He also has a tendency on 'the catch' to throw his elbows out. When you do that, you have to move them back in to get the shot up. That was one of the things slowing down his release a bit."

Another issue Rondo has is shooting off the dribble.

"He has a tendency to play standing straight up," said Price. "You want to be in playing position, more in ready position.".....

Price said that it will take patience for the fans and, especially, Rondo, to wait this transformation out.

Just like when Tiger Woods changed his golf swing in 2005.

"The hardest thing is you miss a shots and struggle for a while. The temptation is to go back to the old way," said Price.

"I like Rajon because he's a worker and he wants to be great," said Price. "He tried to implement the stuff we talked about. It's going to take time. The next step is taking it from the practice floor into the game and sticking with it."

Couple points.

One, Rondo traveled down to Atlanta to work with him three times. That doesn't mean three days. I seriously doubt that he flew down there and spent one day working with him each time. That makes zero sense logically or from any type of business perspective.

Two, as I have been saying, have patience. Price even comments that Rondo would probably be reverting back to his old ways if he struggled with his mechanics and the author of the article even referenced the same analogy of Tiger Woods remade swing. Price says by April things they did would be paying dividends. I believe him. He's was an amazing shooter and is as qualified a shooting coach as anyone.

Great work with the cited article and comments. There seems to be a tendency to wish changes overnight. This is simply unrealistic. The golf-swing analogy is a good one. Things often take a short-term turn for the worse, or inconsistency, which can be frustrating at the time, on the longer road towards improvement. Despite the present agitations I believe Price is correct that come playoff time we will all have been happied to have "suffered" through the current troubles. This applies to these losses as well. Sometimes people seem to forget that the NBA is 82 games long and is a game of ups and downs, runs and droughts, good stretches and bad slumps.