BBD S+T for Travis Outlaw?

[rondohondo]

Rick Bucher says that Turkoglu is working out a deal with Portland today. With Turkoglu , they now have Roy, Fernandez, Webster and Turk at the wing. They appear to be now looking for PF help off the bench, so how about this trade?

BOS SENDS: BBD

POR SENDS: Travis Outlaw


I think it fills holes for both teams and Portland has been rumored to wanting to move Outlaw.

Does it have a chance of happening?

[Fafnir]

No, BYC rules preclude a trade like that. Roy Hobbs has broken it down multiple times, but BYC rules make S&Ts for BBD very difficult to setup.

[Change]

Don't know how trades work, but this could be a possibility. This team could use a player like outlaw. Sheed/Outlaw/House is a bench we can go to war with.

[HearMeRoar]

When I heard the report that he would get offered MLE, I also started thinking S&T. Can someone explain better why it would be difficult to pull off?

[Fafnir]

When I heard the report that he would get offered MLE, I also started thinking S&T. Can someone explain better why it would be difficult to pull off?

12) So, we have Bird rights to Tony Allen.  Does that mean we could sign him to a huge one-year deal, and then trade him to another team as an "expiring contract"?

No.  If you give a player larger than a 20% raise, he's subject to something called "base year compensation".  Essentially, what this means is that for purposes of trades, you only count 50% of the player's actual salary as outgoing salary for trade purposes.  However, the team trading *for* the BYC player has to count 100% of his actual salary for incoming purposes.

I know that's confusing as heck, so let me use an example.  Let's say we want to trade Tony for a player making $7 million.  We thus intend to sign Tony to a one-year, $7 million contract.  Here's how that breaks down under BYC rules:

Boston trades:  Tony Allen ($7 million salary * 50% reduction = $3.5 million)
Boston receives: $7 million player

The trade cannot go through, because the $3.5 million and $7.0 million salaries don't "match" within 125% + $100k.

Couldn't a team just sign Tony to a $14 million expiring contract, then?  No.  Here's why not:

Boston trades: Tony Allen ($14 million salary * 50% reduction = $7.0 million)
Boston receives: $7 million player

So far so good, right?  However, the next step kills it:

Team X trades: $7 million player
Team X receives: Tony Allen ($14 million salary, with no reduction)

Thus, once again, the salaries don't "match".  Base year compensation makes it very difficult (although not impossible) for players to be traded in the first year of contracts where they saw a substantial raise.

Basically this post from last year about Tony Allen applies to BBD this year.

[HearMeRoar]

gotcha. thanks for clarifying. Seems like bird rights rules designed to keep a player in town can also wind up hurting you.

[Chris]

gotcha. thanks for clarifying. Seems like bird rights rules designed to keep a player in town can also wind up hurting you.

How can it hurt you? 

[Lucky17]

To follow up on Fafnir's post, I found something that directly addresses a BBD S&T from Roy's 2009 edition of the salary cap situation/FAQ:

14) If it looks like we're going to lose BBD as a free agent, could we sign and trade him to another team?

Nothing prevents us from signing and trading BBD using the Early Bird exception.  However, Base Year Compensation rules (as explained in Question 13) make it pretty tough to pull off such a trade.  For instance, if BBD signs for $4.0 million in his first year, there is *no* 1-for-1 trade that could be made for him under BYC rules.  There may be some wiggle room by including a minimum salary player, but there's not much.

By example:

Let's say BBD signs for $4 million in the first year, and we want to trade him to Team X.

For BYC purposes, BBD's salary counts as a $2 million salary outgoing from Boston.   To fit within trade rules, the most salary we can take back from another team (Team X) is 125% of that amount, plus $100k.  That amounts to $2.6 million.

Does that mean we can acquire a player making $2.6 million, then?  No.  The trade has to work from Team X's end, too, and from their end, they have to count BBD's entire $4 million salary.  The absolute least amount they could send out in a trade of a $4 million salary is $3.12 million.  As you see, that's still more than the $2.6 million Boston can take back.

Now, one way around this would be to include a minimum salary player in the team (going from Team X to Boston), because minimum salary players don't have to be counted as incoming salary in a trade.  For instance, let's say we want to trade BBD's $4 million salary for a player making $2.5 million and a minimum salary player, making around $800k.  Can we do that?  Yes.

As noted above, Boston can trade BBD's hypothetical $4 million salary for a player making up to $2.6 million.  In this case, the $2.5 million player fits under this restriction.  Because minimum salary players can be included in a trade at any time without counting against outgoing salary, from Team X's end, it is only sending out $2.5 million in salary (when, in actuality, the real number it is trading is $3.3 million).  On the other hand, remember that Boston has to take back at least $3.12 million in salary.  Does it meet this requirement?  Yes, because Boston can elect to include the actual amount of salaries it is taking back, or in this case, $3.3 million.

The lesson to learn here is that a sign-and-trade with BBD is possible, but it's not probable, due to the small margin of error with which the Celts have to work in terms of matching salaries.

[toinewalka]

I don't see this having any legs.  With the rumors of Grant Hill in town I see the next two holes to be filled to be a backup PG/SG (either one as House is sufficient to fill the other) and a 4th big man, hopefully with good height/size if not BBD.  I don't think signing or completing a sign and trade for a 3 behind PP and Hill would be useful enough.

[byennie]

I could (and probably do) be way off on this, but assume BBD gets MLE level money:

BBD + Scalabrine + Giddens

for

Steve Blake + Travis Outlaw


BOSTON OUT: ($5.6M + $3.2M + $1.0M) = $9.8M
BOSTON IN: ($4.25M + $4.0M) = $8.25M

PORTLAND OUT: ($4.25M + $4.0M) = $8.25M
PORTLAND IN: ($2.8M + 3.2M + $1.0M) = $7.0M

Obviously you could mess with the exact players a little bit, but working Blake in there would make the money plausible.

[BASS_THUMPER]

i heard a couple days ago he was goin but didnt know for who

i dont think he will get better playin anywhere else and ill be kinda sad to see him on the bench not gettin minutes

[Fafnir]

I could (and probably do) be way off on this, but assume BBD gets MLE level money:

BBD + Scalabrine + Giddens

for

Steve Blake + Travis Outlaw


BOSTON OUT: ($5.6M + $3.2M + $1.0M) = $9.8M
BOSTON IN: ($4.25M + $4.0M) = $8.25M

PORTLAND OUT: ($4.25M + $4.0M) = $8.25M
PORTLAND IN: ($2.8M + 3.2M + $1.0M) = $7.0M

Obviously you could mess with the exact players a little bit, but working Blake in there would make the money plausible.

But then the trade doesn't make sense because they'd lack a point guard.

I think you're right on the salaries though.

[Lucky17]

I was trying to figure out a way a sign and trade of Davis to SA for Bonner plus a min contract (like Marcus Williams) would work, but haven't found the numbers just yet.