Taking advantage of Charlotte in a Ray Allen trade

[BballTim]

"Next time I guess I won't assume everyone is aware of such things."

Something really stings about a guy talking down to people when he is suggesting a simply horrendous trade. Oh and thanks for explaining how the basketball business works, I didn't realize teams were out to make money 1st, that is some real inside information. Did it ever occur to you that this offseason's goal should be finding better backups for the C's studs? Okafor & Wallace have had extremely serious injures and Raja Bell starting is just a diseaster waiting to happen. People will respect you more if you admit you are wrong. Take a step back and think about who is going to make all the shots Jesus makes, whos going to do it, you tell me cause I'm pretty sure that person doesn't exist if you trade Jesus.

Do you have any posts where
you bring a positive attitude?
Geez...

Don't listen to them, let the hate flow through you. It will make you stronger....

Fear leads to anger... anger leads to hate... hate leads to SUFFERING!

  Losing leads to suffering...

[JSD]

My stating that basketball was a business and that owners want to make money was again me stating the obvious so that there was no confusion of my point and so that I wouldn't need to state this reasoning later. I was being condescending.

Wow Nick, not sure if you can be considered "nicest" anymore.

[nickagneta]

My stating that basketball was a business and that owners want to make money was again me stating the obvious so that there was no confusion of my point and so that I wouldn't need to state this reasoning later. I was being condescending.

Wow Nick, not sure if you can be considered "nicest" anymore.

Ooops, sorry, typo meant wasn't.....I'll go edit it.


Done.

[ACF]

"Next time I guess I won't assume everyone is aware of such things."

Something really stings about a guy talking down to people when he is suggesting a simply horrendous trade. Oh and thanks for explaining how the basketball business works, I didn't realize teams were out to make money 1st, that is some real inside information. Did it ever occur to you that this offseason's goal should be finding better backups for the C's studs? Okafor & Wallace have had extremely serious injures and Raja Bell starting is just a diseaster waiting to happen. People will respect you more if you admit you are wrong. Take a step back and think about who is going to make all the shots Jesus makes, whos going to do it, you tell me cause I'm pretty sure that person doesn't exist if you trade Jesus.

Do you have any posts where
you bring a positive attitude?
Geez...

I love everyone, everyone is awesome!

That's the spirit, TP!

 

[BUTerrier]

What bothers me about this deal isn't the contracts. It's that I think we're undervaluing team chemistry. There is simply NO WAY that either Perk or Okafor (depending on who you're arguing would be pushed out of the starting lineup after this deal occurred) comes off the bench. I mean, I get that players are going to defer to stars like KG, but they defer to them by not going to their team, y'know? And, I mean, I'm not entirely convinced either would be wrong; both are legit starters in a league starving for legit big men in the middle. The same could be argued for Wallace/Bell (whichever is off the bench when Pierce and the other one are starting), though probably less so. There is, in fact, a balance that has to be struck between "playing for a winner" and "getting reasonable minutes", and I can't say I'd fault any of the Charlotte players mentioned in this deal if they balked at the idea of coming off the bench. And then, if they do so, we've got chemistry issues.

This, of course, is ignoring the TREMENDOUS boost of chemistry that Ray Allen brings to the Celtics; the guy has been loved by everyone he's played for and with in the league with the exception of George Karl. With the backlash from some players about KG's "antics" (their word, not mine), I might even argue that RAY, not KG or Pierce, is the "respected vet" that players are going to sign to play with. Given that, and given that it's not like his skills have eroded to the point where he's a liability, I think his value is such that, but for the absolute no-brainer players you'd want on your team (ex: LeBron, Wade, Carmelo, Kobe, Duncan, etc.), we're better off keeping Ray.

Hey, I love Okafor. I've loved his game since he was at UConn. I think he'd be a heck of a player to get on the Celtics. But we chose to trade for KG, so that door has to be shut for now. I can see why people would like to make this deal, but I don't think it's the best one to do even if both sides WERE willing to do it.

[ToppersBsktball10]

move Pierce to the 2 (get him to lose some weight lift wome weight get faster quicker and more explosive also) and start Wallace at the 3

[Fafnir]

move Pierce to the 2 (get him to lose some weight lift wome weight get faster quicker and more explosive also) and start Wallace at the 3

He's already lost a good deal of weight from last season. I'd worry about him keeping up with quick 2s. I'd say it'd be better to have Wallace play the 2 but I don't think either is a good option at that spot ideally.

[LarBrd33]

That's fairly interesting.  So we have around 29 million in expiring contracts?

18.7 mil for Ray

10 mil combined for Eddie, Tony, Scal, Pruitt and Walker?

So what you're saying is that we could combine those 6 players and take back something like MIchael Redd (15 mil) + Richard Jefferson (13 mil) (not that i'm suggesting it. I just find that interesting )

What about this.  If you're the Wizards... do you want to dump Gilbert Arenas and Antawn Jamison for that package? 

Another thing worth thinking about is the "2010 free agent class".  How desperately do some of these teams want to get under the cap?  I'm not suggesting that the Wizards or Bucks have a shot at getting LeBron... but 28 mil in expiring contracts sure seems like it'd be valuable.

Let me throw this out there.  You're the Los Angeles clippers.   Is Los Angeles not a destination?  HOw desperately do they want to get rid of Baron Davis (signed until 2012) and Kaman (signed until 2012)?  At what point do they start talking about the #1 pick?   What if it was Davis and Zach Randolph?  ....

Interesting. 

[greg683x]

That's fairly interesting.  So we have around 29 million in expiring contracts?

18.7 mil for Ray

10 mil combined for Eddie, Tony, Scal, Pruitt and Walker?

So what you're saying is that we could combine those 6 players and take back something like MIchael Redd (15 mil) + Richard Jefferson (13 mil) (not that i'm suggesting it. I just find that interesting )

What about this.  If you're the Wizards... do you want to dump Gilbert Arenas and Antawn Jamison for that package? 

Another thing worth thinking about is the "2010 free agent class".  How desperately do some of these teams want to get under the cap?  I'm not suggesting that the Wizards or Bucks have a shot at getting LeBron... but 28 mil in expiring contracts sure seems like it'd be valuable.

Let me throw this out there.  You're the Los Angeles clippers.   Is Los Angeles not a destination?  HOw desperately do they want to get rid of Baron Davis (signed until 2012) and Kaman (signed until 2012)?  At what point do they start talking about the #1 pick?   What if it was Davis and Zach Randolph?  ....

Interesting. 

maybe this was addressed earlier, but what about Rondo's extension?  Perk's extension?  Someone said ealier that Wyc said theres a max deal available to be handed out, did he also take this into consideration or was he just talking casually.

I'd really hate to miss out on resigning our solid, rising star, PG, b/c we got an itchy trigger finger and ended up with Michael Redd (who people forget isnt much younger than Ray Allen) and Richard Jefferson, whos as injury prone as they come.

The only thing I dont like about the deal that Nick posted is that of the three players we'd get back, only one can be depended to be able to knock down a jumper.  I know theres no point in talking about the past, and honestly I didnt really want him at the time, but it's a shame we didnt go after Mickael Pietrus.  Also, not to be repetative, having a front court of KG, Perk, Okafor, leaves one person who can spread the floor with a jumpshot.  I know Im being nitpicky but Rondo makes his living on being able to get in the lane (and you could agrue that Pierces is also to an extent), so we need players that can prevent teams from trying to clog it.  If we're able to resign Big Baby, his jumper helps, but seriously how many minutes is there gonna be open to pass around between Okafor/Perk/KG/Baby.  Someone would be taking a huge cut in minutes and if Big Baby gets the slightest feeling it would be him, I dont see him resigning here.  If Charlotte is going to be as desperate as Nick said, it doesnt sound too far fatched, but right now it's just spec. 


Phoenix is a team thats been looking to dump salary any chance we could pry Barbosa away from them??  Im not a salary guru so dont bite my head off.

[LarBrd33]

That's fairly interesting.  So we have around 29 million in expiring contracts?

18.7 mil for Ray

10 mil combined for Eddie, Tony, Scal, Pruitt and Walker?

So what you're saying is that we could combine those 6 players and take back something like MIchael Redd (15 mil) + Richard Jefferson (13 mil) (not that i'm suggesting it. I just find that interesting )

What about this.  If you're the Wizards... do you want to dump Gilbert Arenas and Antawn Jamison for that package? 

Another thing worth thinking about is the "2010 free agent class".  How desperately do some of these teams want to get under the cap?  I'm not suggesting that the Wizards or Bucks have a shot at getting LeBron... but 28 mil in expiring contracts sure seems like it'd be valuable.

Let me throw this out there.  You're the Los Angeles clippers.   Is Los Angeles not a destination?  HOw desperately do they want to get rid of Baron Davis (signed until 2012) and Kaman (signed until 2012)?  At what point do they start talking about the #1 pick?   What if it was Davis and Zach Randolph?  ....

Interesting. 

maybe this was addressed earlier, but what about Rondo's extension?  Perk's extension? 

Irrelevant.   Unless you're saying that Wyc wouldn't want to pay the luxury tax. 

[greg683x]

That's fairly interesting.  So we have around 29 million in expiring contracts?

18.7 mil for Ray

10 mil combined for Eddie, Tony, Scal, Pruitt and Walker?

So what you're saying is that we could combine those 6 players and take back something like MIchael Redd (15 mil) + Richard Jefferson (13 mil) (not that i'm suggesting it. I just find that interesting )

What about this.  If you're the Wizards... do you want to dump Gilbert Arenas and Antawn Jamison for that package? 

Another thing worth thinking about is the "2010 free agent class".  How desperately do some of these teams want to get under the cap?  I'm not suggesting that the Wizards or Bucks have a shot at getting LeBron... but 28 mil in expiring contracts sure seems like it'd be valuable.

Let me throw this out there.  You're the Los Angeles clippers.   Is Los Angeles not a destination?  HOw desperately do they want to get rid of Baron Davis (signed until 2012) and Kaman (signed until 2012)?  At what point do they start talking about the #1 pick?   What if it was Davis and Zach Randolph?  ....

Interesting. 

maybe this was addressed earlier, but what about Rondo's extension?  Perk's extension? 

Irrelevant.   Unless you're saying that Wyc wouldn't want to pay the luxury tax. 

He didnt last summer.  This is why we ended up with Patrick OBryant, resigning TA for cheap.

[RebusRankin]

Nick posts some good trade ideas.

[Who]

Charlotte have been losing $15-20mil a season for the last two years. They are expecting to lose around $20mil next season. Those figures are off some Charlotte Observer article I read earlier in the year.

Charlotte have been aware of these figures for a long time, and despite this, they continued to bring in more long term money in on each transaction. The Radmanovic trade, the Diop trade, the Diaw and Bell trade. They're about to pay Raymond Felton, which they'll pay another $5mil or so per annum on. All of these acquisitions have been made with the knowledge of their financial situation.

Nothing Charlotte has done in the last 12 months has indicated them being interested in dumping salary. This is despite of their terrible financial situation and their terrible cap situation from a basketball perspective.

This is not a team that is currently looking to rid themselves of contracts. Nevermind willing to sacrifice their best players in such a scenario.

Could this change? Possibly, but I doubt it, and if does happen it's still a long way off.

I think as long Larry Brown has control of that team they'll be attempting to be as competitive as possible, which is why they took on all those stupid contracts (Diop, Radmanovic) in the first place.

[Who]

Now should Charlotte be trying to dump salary? Absolutely.

They gave up all their cap flexibility to a middle of the table squad, that will either finish with a late lottery pick or a late playoff spot for the next few years. They don't have the cap flexibility, the draft picks, or the trade assets, to take major steps forward. In other words, they're stuck in the middle of nowhere.

Is this relevant to the discussion? Unfortunately not, because Larry Brown is running this team like it's still the 1990's. He doesn't understand the cap and neither does Michael Jordan. They don't understand how this is going to hurt the team in the long run.

Should they do this? Yes.
Will they? No ... not now anyway ... and they're unlikely to realize their mistakes for quite some time.

[ToppersBsktball10]

move Pierce to the 2 (get him to lose some weight lift wome weight get faster quicker and more explosive also) and start Wallace at the 3

He's already lost a good deal of weight from last season. I'd worry about him keeping up with quick 2s. I'd say it'd be better to have Wallace play the 2 but I don't think either is a good option at that spot ideally.

If he can get back to his physique from the Toine and Truth days then he'll be good to play for a while