Why was John Salmons not fouled?

[angryguy77]

I'd rather extend the game at the freethrow line instead of extending it where we had to play an extra overtime period with a depleted team (Perk out with fouls; Scal out with Fouls; KG and Powe with injury).

I just can't believe there is not more outrage about this coaching move here today.  I expected 1000 posts about this when I logged on this morning and really didn't see anything except stuff about officiating.

Doc and/or the players screwed this one up and I'm upset about it if you can't tell.

Im with you, I was on the phone with my dad at the end of the game and I was going crazy as to why they didn't foul. Doc's a good coach, but he really made the wrong move on this one. Its frustr

I don't go for letting your d save you with as inconsistant as they have been playing.

This is going down as an Ace Ventura "laces out" kind of game

[guava_wrench]

It's just weird because we fouled in these situations last year and it worked. Maybe the players were taught only to foul when the player's back was to the basket.

This adds to Salmons question.  He did catch the ball with his back to the basket inside 2 pt territory.  That to me is the perfect time to just take the foul.  Aaaaaah!   

I had trouble remembering where Salmons was when he passed it to Gordon, but someone messed this one up. It was either Doc or the players and it is tough to know who. It did look like Pierce was a little caught off guard. I lean towards blaming it on Ray since we already know that Doc's philosophy is to foul.

This is one of the things I remember Doc preaching during that training camp special they did on NBATV. The right time/space to foul when the other team is down 3.

We don't know Doc wanted them to foul.  There was a lot of time left on the clock.  Perhaps Doc wanted them to foul when there was less time left.  Or maybe he did not want them to foul at all, because he did not want to extend the game and turn it into a foul shooting contest.

Are you calling Doc a liar? Doc says he wanted a foul:

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=290426004

[Chief]

Doc should have learned, from the other teams mistake, when the Bulls did not foul Ray before his game timing shot.

[RAcker]

Being that we're the defending champs, I'm okay with the choice to trust our defense to get stop. 

It's a 50/50 call by the coaching staff.  Hard to argue difinitively either way.

I don't see how it's 50/50.  You foul Salmons, then sub in Eddie House, etc. to get every 80% + FT shooter you have on the floor and you hit your FT's.  If they have one more timeout, the best they can do is advance it to midcourt again to try the same thing all over again with less time on the clock.

[guava_wrench]

I'd rather extend the game at the freethrow line instead of extending it where we had to play an extra overtime period with a depleted team (Perk out with fouls; Scal out with Fouls; KG and Powe with injury).

I just can't believe there is not more outrage about this coaching move here today.  I expected 1000 posts about this when I logged on this morning and really didn't see anything except stuff about officiating.

Doc and/or the players screwed this one up and I'm upset about it if you can't tell.

Im with you, I was on the phone with my dad at the end of the game and I was going crazy as to why they didn't foul. Doc's a good coach, but he really made the wrong move on this one. Its frustr

I don't go for letting your d save you with as inconsistant as they have been playing.

This is going down as an Ace Ventura "laces out" kind of game

Where did you read that Doc didn't want a foul?

[Chris]

It's just weird because we fouled in these situations last year and it worked. Maybe the players were taught only to foul when the player's back was to the basket.

This adds to Salmons question.  He did catch the ball with his back to the basket inside 2 pt territory.  That to me is the perfect time to just take the foul.  Aaaaaah!   

I had trouble remembering where Salmons was when he passed it to Gordon, but someone messed this one up. It was either Doc or the players and it is tough to know who. It did look like Pierce was a little caught off guard. I lean towards blaming it on Ray since we already know that Doc's philosophy is to foul.

This is one of the things I remember Doc preaching during that training camp special they did on NBATV. The right time/space to foul when the other team is down 3.

We don't know Doc wanted them to foul.  There was a lot of time left on the clock.  Perhaps Doc wanted them to foul when there was less time left.  Or maybe he did not want them to foul at all, because he did not want to extend the game and turn it into a foul shooting contest.

Are you calling Doc a liar? Doc says he wanted a foul:

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=290426004

Didn't see that article.  Good find.

[RAcker]

It's just weird because we fouled in these situations last year and it worked. Maybe the players were taught only to foul when the player's back was to the basket.

This adds to Salmons question.  He did catch the ball with his back to the basket inside 2 pt territory.  That to me is the perfect time to just take the foul.  Aaaaaah!   

I had trouble remembering where Salmons was when he passed it to Gordon, but someone messed this one up. It was either Doc or the players and it is tough to know who. It did look like Pierce was a little caught off guard. I lean towards blaming it on Ray since we already know that Doc's philosophy is to foul.

This is one of the things I remember Doc preaching during that training camp special they did on NBATV. The right time/space to foul when the other team is down 3.

We don't know Doc wanted them to foul.  There was a lot of time left on the clock.  Perhaps Doc wanted them to foul when there was less time left.  Or maybe he did not want them to foul at all, because he did not want to extend the game and turn it into a foul shooting contest.

Are you calling Doc a liar? Doc says he wanted a foul:

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=290426004

Didn't see that article.  Good find.

Now some people are going to get really upset.

[angryguy77]

He says it, but how hard is it to foul? I dont believe that he wanted it. He may have said that he wanted to fould but he also has been saying that KG cant play, but then he tells him to wait on surgery. I trust the guy as a coach, but I dont trust what he tells us in the interviews all the time.

[Chris]

He says it, but how hard is it to foul? I dont believe that he wanted it. He may have said that he wanted to fould but he also has been saying that KG cant play, but then he tells him to wait on surgery. I trust the guy as a coach, but I dont trust what he tells us in the interviews all the time.

I trust Doc completely with this stuff.  If he says they wanted a foul, then they wanted a foul.

[RAcker]

He says it, but how hard is it to foul? I dont believe that he wanted it. He may have said that he wanted to fould but he also has been saying that KG cant play, but then he tells him to wait on surgery. I trust the guy as a coach, but I dont trust what he tells us in the interviews all the time.

I trust Doc completely with this stuff.  If he says they wanted a foul, then they wanted a foul.

And then my question to you, Chris, is this...what the heck was Ray doing on that play?   

[thedawg]

There are two options:

1.  We could have taken 2 seconds of the clock and get Salmons to the foul line and make him work those 2 pts. We could be 1-2 pts ahead with 7 seconds left and the ball in Ray Allen´s hands when he is fouled. We might get 1 second or 2 off the clock leaving Allen to get us 2-4 pts ahead (depending on the score). Then we could again, go through the same procedure etc etc etc.

2.  What really happened in the game.

I would have liked to see the first option myself but it is a risky way and could go the other way too. However, I trust Ray Allen in such situations.  We should think of that next time.

[twinbree]

Now that I think about it Ray and Paul seem to be involved in quite a number of these late game lapses Manu stealing the inbounds, losing track of Raja Bell, T.J Ford grabbing the offensive rebound etc. Probably too gassed playing heavy minutes in close games. I really hope we get a bench Doc trusts in the offseason.

[winsomme]

the danger of fouling when the guy is outside the arc is that you end up getting 3 foul shots or even worse a 4 point play if they player rises up and actually hits the shot. given the crazy shots Gordon has been making, that seems like a legit worry.

But i do believe that Doc wanted a foul under the right circumstances. when the ball came in to Salmons, that  would have been a good time because he was facing away from the basket and was inside the 3pt line.....

The Cs may have been surprised that the Bulls ever brought the ball inside the 3pt line and just could decide quickly enough to grab him.

another reason to foul is i believe CHI was out of TOs. Am i remembering that right? If that was the case, they would have had to travel all the way up the court to get off another shot.

certainly possible with about 7-8 secs left, but much more of a desperation shot than being able to inbounds at half court.

all in all, I believe Doc wanted a foul under the right circumstances. It does Doc no good to lie about that. Certainly the players would lose some respect for him if he came out and said that when he hadn't said it in the huddle...

Let's just take CHI down tonight!!

[LB3533]

My feelings on this is that you ALWAYS foul with under 10 seconds of game lock.

I don't mind if you even foul a 3 point shooter, but the foul must occur instantly, thus giving you more time to set up your own play.

The key is obviously not getting burned by a 4 point play, but even if a 3 pointer shooter gets fouled he still has to make all 3 free throws (which rarely happens).