The score was 96-78 when Powe left the game with 5:56 left

[nickagneta]

I'm sorry I just see the whole idea of blaming the Laker comeback on the one substitution of Ray Allen, a tremendously better perimeter defender than Leon, for Leon Powe during a time when the Lakers had 5 shooters on the floor, nothing more than a cop out from a fan base that still has an axe to grind about the coach because they have been so completely wrong about him.

I find it especially vindictive considering that two of the players that were on the floor admitted already to the fact that they got complacent and had let down.

If this is the case, why bring up the subject whatsoever, unless of course one just wants to once again take a shot at the coach. Which of course is exactly what is happening!

We'll plain just never know what difference Leon could have made, (if any), so it's a pretty safe bet to go with what actually happened. I'm just putting forth my honest feelings about what I saw, and what I felt should have happened, and not accusing anyone of anything negative or "vindictive" in the process.

People who know me here know I don't just bash others for the sake of bashing, and that I have a little more integirty than falling back on "cop outs". This is my opinion, Nick, and I have always respected yours whether we agreed or not. I truly take exception to the inferences here .... I have never, nor would never, treat you the same.

I speak my mind about Doc because it's truly the way I feel. I have no need to take "shots" at him, as he does a thorough enough job of that himself. Please don't presume to criticize others without deference or reproach, and then say any criticism of Doc is a cheap shot. We're here to discuss this team objectively, and Doc should be as subject to analysis as anyone else ... period.

Thanks for the kind words ... I truly thought we were on the same team here, but touche' ... TP for your biting wit. You win, man ... I'm done with this topic, and to the victor go the spoils!

My comment my friend wasn't aimed specifically at you but at the entire group of people who do not support Doc, some often with quite bad taste by questioning his intelligence and insulting his person. There has been quite a bit of vitriolic dispersions cast in the direction of Doc Rivers this year and yet he has disproved most if not all allegations thrown at him.

He can get a team to the playoffs.
He can get past the first round.
He can outcoach other coaches and be a difference in a playoff series.
He can tighten up his rotations.
He can change directions when a certain player isn't working out.
He can have logical substitutions.
He can coach a team to a championship.

I think all of the following has been addressed by Doc's job this postseason, yet after a win by the Celtics where the players admitted to relaxing and stopped playing the way they were, there are still people questioning a substitution of his as being the reason for a comeback that fell short.

I thought it was abundantly clear to any that watched that game that the players on the court were responsible for the Lakers comeback. I truly thought those were facts that were just self evident.

I understand people, heck, I make a living at understanding people and people don't like to admit they were wrong. It is my belief that many, not specifically you, but many have trouble admitting that Doc is better than they thought, was able to do things they thought he couldn't, and has succeeded where they were positive he would fail.

So instead of admitting the obvious and what the players have already admitted, that they were responsible for the actions of the last 8 minutes, the Doc detractors have to once again fall back on the old small ball, bad substitution, Doc's fault thinking they are so used to. Why? Because in some small why it validates that they weren't wrong about what Doc could accomplish with this team?! I don't know, but it is still happening. I wouldn't even be continuing to address this issue except for the fact that it was the players themselves that have admitted to being culpable. They did so immediately after the game ended. So if the players and the coach know and admit what went wrong in that timespan why do the same old people who have been blasting Doc all year have to come out and try to turn this around into something it was not. My only thinking is that they still want to get their last shots in on the guy before he wins a championship.

You have every right to your opinions on Doc, I've never questioned the right for that opinion. I am sorry if what I say is hurtful, but I truly believe that I am also allowed my opinions and that my opinion is that many here are grinding an axe against Doc because they were wrong. I feel that many look for fault in him simply because when things aren't perfect then it must be his fault. 2 wins from a championship the Doc detractors will come out with anything they can to once again try to prove a point that has already been disproven.

There is a reason that on this very site the exact same thing happened to Terry Francona as the playoffs went on last year. The most ardent Tito bashers were loud and constant all the way up to game 4 in Colorado. There has not been a peep from them since.

I don't find this to be a coincidence, I find it to be a nornal human reaction.




 

[Bahku]

I'm sorry I just see the whole idea of blaming the Laker comeback on the one substitution of Ray Allen, a tremendously better perimeter defender than Leon, for Leon Powe during a time when the Lakers had 5 shooters on the floor, nothing more than a cop out from a fan base that still has an axe to grind about the coach because they have been so completely wrong about him.

I find it especially vindictive considering that two of the players that were on the floor admitted already to the fact that they got complacent and had let down.

If this is the case, why bring up the subject whatsoever, unless of course one just wants to once again take a shot at the coach. Which of course is exactly what is happening!

We'll plain just never know what difference Leon could have made, (if any), so it's a pretty safe bet to go with what actually happened. I'm just putting forth my honest feelings about what I saw, and what I felt should have happened, and not accusing anyone of anything negative or "vindictive" in the process.

People who know me here know I don't just bash others for the sake of bashing, and that I have a little more integirty than falling back on "cop outs". This is my opinion, Nick, and I have always respected yours whether we agreed or not. I truly take exception to the inferences here .... I have never, nor would never, treat you the same.

I speak my mind about Doc because it's truly the way I feel. I have no need to take "shots" at him, as he does a thorough enough job of that himself. Please don't presume to criticize others without deference or reproach, and then say any criticism of Doc is a cheap shot. We're here to discuss this team objectively, and Doc should be as subject to analysis as anyone else ... period.

Thanks for the kind words ... I truly thought we were on the same team here, but touche' ... TP for your biting wit. You win, man ... I'm done with this topic, and to the victor go the spoils!

My comment my friend wasn't aimed specifically at you but at the entire group of people who do not support Doc, some often with quite bad taste by questioning his intelligence and insulting his person. There has been quite a bit of vitriolic dispersions cast in the direction of Doc Rivers this year and yet he has disproved most if not all allegations thrown at him.

He can get a team to the playoffs.
He can get past the first round.
He can outcoach other coaches and be a difference in a playoff series.
He can tighten up his rotations.
He can change directions when a certain player isn't working out.
He can have logical substitutions.
He can coach a team to a championship.

I think all of the following has been addressed by Doc's job this postseason, yet after a win by the Celtics where the players admitted to relaxing and stopped playing the way they were, there are still people questioning a substitution of his as being the reason for a comeback that fell short.

I thought it was abundantly clear to any that watched that game that the players on the court were responsible for the Lakers comeback. I truly thought those were facts that were just self evident.

I understand people, heck, I make a living at understanding people and people don't like to admit they were wrong. It is my belief that many, not specifically you, but many have trouble admitting that Doc is better than they thought, was able to do things they thought he couldn't, and has succeeded where they were positive he would fail.

So instead of admitting the obvious and what the players have already admitted, that they were responsible for the actions of the last 8 minutes, the Doc detractors have to once again fall back on the old small ball, bad substitution, Doc's fault thinking they are so used to. Why? Because in some small why it validates that they weren't wrong about what Doc could accomplish with this team?! I don't know, but it is still happening. I wouldn't even be continuing to address this issue except for the fact that it was the players themselves that have admitted to being culpable. They did so immediately after the game ended. So if the players and the coach know and admit what went wrong in that timespan why do the same old people who have been blasting Doc all year have to come out and try to turn this around into something it was not. My only thinking is that they still want to get their last shots in on the guy before he wins a championship.

You have every right to your opinions on Doc, I've never questioned the right for that opinion. I am sorry if what I say is hurtful, but I truly believe that I am also allowed my opinions and that my opinion is that many here are grinding an axe against Doc because they were wrong. I feel that many look for fault in him simply because when things aren't perfect then it must be his fault. 2 wins from a championship the Doc detractors will come out with anything they can to once again try to prove a point that has already been disproven.

There is a reason that on this very site the exact same thing happened to Terry Francona as the playoffs went on last year. The most ardent Tito bashers were loud and constant all the way up to game 4 in Colorado. There has not been a peep from them since.

I don't find this to be a coincidence, I find it to be a nornal human reaction.

Well-said, Nick and good points all. I completely understand your viewpoint here as well, and I must agree with you about the general consensus of this, and that much of the negativity toward Doc is not objective or even fair. Peace out, Friend.