Garnett turnover, game 2

[Hrvoje]

It was in 2nd quarter. He was trying to dribble, and then referee signaled something. GArnett had no complaints. I watched that over and over and I really didn't see anything! If anyone knows what it is, can you please enlighten me?

[Redz]

It was in 2nd quarter. He was trying to dribble, and then referee signaled something. GArnett had no complaints. I watched that over and over and I really didn't see anything! If anyone knows what it is, can you please enlighten me?

I'm pretty sure they called him for a carry on that play.  He sort of hesitated (stopped moving his feet) for a second in between dribbles.  It was sort of like a balk in baseball (not that that makes it any clearer).

[Kwhit10]

The referee signaled a carry there. Like it was said he kind of hesitated and moved his hand a little to far under the ball.

[Hrvoje]

Thanks.
 
I thought carrying turnover is when ball jumps high as your shoulder is when dribbling.

Well, it makes sense carrying the ball- putting your hand to far under the ball when moving.

btw, I thought this kind of mistakes are never called in NBA, especially not on superstars

I seems to me that Garnett does make too much of 3-sec, traveling, carrying...

[KJ33]

Thanks.
 
I thought carrying turnover is when ball jumps high as your shoulder is when dribbling.

Well, it makes sense carrying the ball- putting your hand to far under the ball when moving.

btw, I thought this kind of mistakes are never called in NBA, especially not on superstars

I seems to me that Garnett does make too much of 3-sec, traveling, carrying...

That is a common misconception of what a constitutes a carrying turnover.  You can dribble the ball as high as you like, even over your head if you could pull it off without it getting stolen, as long as your hand stays on top of the basketball.  What determines it being a violation, as you alluded to, is when you turn the ball over by your hand being underneath the basketball.  However, this is an area which is permitted very liberally throughout the NBA, and now unfortunately, even at the high school level. 

It has dramatically changed the game and discouraged the passing game, as one can gain a tremendous advantage with one's own dribble, literally "carrying" the ball with you as you change directions while being defended.  Iverson carries almost every time he drives for crying out loud, so that call on Garnett was bit outrageous considering how infrequently it is called.  Most every guard in high school turns the ball over constantly while dribbling, just bringing the ball up the court even without any pressure being applied, the new standard for calling it does not seem to be the actual technical aspects of the violation, but whether an advantage is gained, which was not the case with the call on Garnett in my opinion.  I think the refs are biased against a big man on the perimeter as opposed to a guard executing this move, an inconsistency that I guess shouldn't shock us anymore with NBA refereeing.

[KeepDWest]

definitely a bias towards big men . . . . watch iverson, tony parker, lebron, and dwade - they clearly place their whole hand under the ball during a crossover and it is never called

[Celtic]

Wade is by far the worst, he uses the carry to change directions while slashing in the paint, giving him an insanely unfair advantage over the defender. But hey, he's Dwayne Wade, he's in T-Mobile commercials, the rules of basketball shouldn't apply to him.

[Hrvoje]

That is a common misconception of what a constitutes a carrying turnover.  You can dribble the ball as high as you like, even over your head if you could pull it off without it getting stolen, as long as your hand stays on top of the basketball.  What determines it being a violation, as you alluded to, is when you turn the ball over by your hand being underneath the basketball.  However, this is an area which is permitted very liberally throughout the NBA, and now unfortunately, even at the high school level. 

It has dramatically changed the game and discouraged the passing game, as one can gain a tremendous advantage with one's own dribble, literally "carrying" the ball with you as you change directions while being defended.  Iverson carries almost every time he drives for crying out loud, so that call on Garnett was bit outrageous considering how infrequently it is called.  Most every guard in high school turns the ball over constantly while dribbling, just bringing the ball up the court even without any pressure being applied, the new standard for calling it does not seem to be the actual technical aspects of the violation, but whether an advantage is gained, which was not the case with the call on Garnett in my opinion.  I think the refs are biased against a big man on the perimeter as opposed to a guard executing this move, an inconsistency that I guess shouldn't shock us anymore with NBA refereeing.

Thanks, TP for you!

It is obviously a double-standard!

When I play on outdoor court, it is always turnover if ball jumps over your shoulder while dribbling
I guess not anymore 
 

[KJ33]

That is a common misconception of what a constitutes a carrying turnover.  You can dribble the ball as high as you like, even over your head if you could pull it off without it getting stolen, as long as your hand stays on top of the basketball.  What determines it being a violation, as you alluded to, is when you turn the ball over by your hand being underneath the basketball.  However, this is an area which is permitted very liberally throughout the NBA, and now unfortunately, even at the high school level. 

It has dramatically changed the game and discouraged the passing game, as one can gain a tremendous advantage with one's own dribble, literally "carrying" the ball with you as you change directions while being defended.  Iverson carries almost every time he drives for crying out loud, so that call on Garnett was bit outrageous considering how infrequently it is called.  Most every guard in high school turns the ball over constantly while dribbling, just bringing the ball up the court even without any pressure being applied, the new standard for calling it does not seem to be the actual technical aspects of the violation, but whether an advantage is gained, which was not the case with the call on Garnett in my opinion.  I think the refs are biased against a big man on the perimeter as opposed to a guard executing this move, an inconsistency that I guess shouldn't shock us anymore with NBA refereeing.

Thanks, TP for you!

It is obviously a double-standard!

When I play on outdoor court, it is always turnover if ball jumps over your shoulder while dribbling
I guess not anymore 
 

Just to clarify, if as in the case you mention, the ball jumps over your shoulder, causing you to fumble it for a second while taking a couple of additional steps, this could become a different violation commonly referred to as a "discontinued dribble".  It all depends on the level of control or not you have over the basketball.  So if this happens, it would be a violation if there is a bit of a fumble or loss of control, but it is not a carry, both are more specific breakdowns effectively of traveling, so your pickup mates may in fact be right that a violation has occurred in the proper set of circumstances, it just isn't a "carry".

[jay_jay54]

I heard the announcer on ESPN say,the ref called "palming"on KG

[Hrvoje]

Just to clarify, if as in the case you mention, the ball jumps over your shoulder, causing you to fumble it for a second while taking a couple of additional steps, this could become a different violation commonly referred to as a "discontinued dribble".  It all depends on the level of control or not you have over the basketball.  So if this happens, it would be a violation if there is a bit of a fumble or loss of control, but it is not a carry, both are more specific breakdowns effectively of traveling, so your pickup mates may in fact be right that a violation has occurred in the proper set of circumstances, it just isn't a "carry".

Yes, I understand.

[Toine43]

I couldn't believe they called KG for palming after watching Josh Smith repeatedly palm the ball in the previous series.

[Hrvoje]

Toine, you have really nice sig, it's real something

In which year was that pic taken with Antoine on your avatar?

[guava_wrench]

I couldn't believe they called KG for palming after watching Josh Smith repeatedly palm the ball in the previous series.

"They"? Was it the same referee? If not, huh?

It was a carry. Period. His hand was well under the ball and it was a good call. It was also a very easy call as it was very visible to the ref on the baseline and was done very slowly to make it even easier.