Potential PF/C Trade Targets For Boston

[Moranis]

I don't see Drummond helping at all or ever seeing the floor in meaningful minutes for this Celtics team. He's not anywhere near mobile enough for our defensive schemes, he is a liability on offense, and he gets abused by Embiid.

But how does he compare to Kornet?

Kornet at least can stretch the floor with his jumper and he's a bit more mobile on defense. All of our bigs can stretch the floor. That seems to be key for getting playing time under Mazzulla. They both get abused by players like Embiid. Most importantly, we already have Kornet, we don't need to give up assets to get someone equivalent or slightly worse than him.

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Come on, even Drummond deacrising, you can t compare him to Luke, who is more thé Scalabrine of this team. Yes Kornet is a little little bit more mobile. Compare their stat, even juste on the Season. 5 Time more points and rebounder. Drummond is Still a Monster on the offensive board. He is a liabilty on some points but get second chance points in PO translate better than the long arm 3point contestation of Luke.  DD was overvaluated, but now he may be underevaluate.  Remember how Batum was Seen as a scrubbs in Charlotte.

And for the mobility, I don t think Porzingis Can be called a mobile Defender. Yes hé stretch crazy, this is why hé is a core peace. Drummond would be here for rotation, adjusments and insurance. Not a great fit but for under 6 million what Can you get ? Former Allstar all defensive less Cook than Griffin, I Say OK. And I prefer to trade thé scrubbs + eventually Pritchard for a target at 1/2

Offensive rebounds impacted winning a long, long time ago before the game became all about the 3 point shot. This is no longer the case.

Most of your big rebounds come off of opponents missed 3's - which is why Tatum is the best rebounder on the team. If a big grabs an OR and puts it back once or twice a game - so what - it's a 2 pt shot and you can foul him and he'll miss one of the FT since Drummond's a 47% career FT shooter - making him unplayable with a game on the line.

Tatum is the best rebounder on the team because the C's bigs are terrible at getting rebounds and Tatum is now playing PF a lot more and guarding guys a bit more on the interior. 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2024_per_game.html#per_game_stats::trb_per_g

Of course for offensive rebounds, Tatum is 8th on the team in ORPG.  Holiday actually leads the team in that, but is still just 34th in the league with again the leaders all being true big guys.

[ozgod]

I don't see Drummond helping at all or ever seeing the floor in meaningful minutes for this Celtics team. He's not anywhere near mobile enough for our defensive schemes, he is a liability on offense, and he gets abused by Embiid.

But how does he compare to Kornet?

Kornet at least can stretch the floor with his jumper and he's a bit more mobile on defense. All of our bigs can stretch the floor. That seems to be key for getting playing time under Mazzulla. They both get abused by players like Embiid. Most importantly, we already have Kornet, we don't need to give up assets to get someone equivalent or slightly worse than him.

.

Come on, even Drummond deacrising, you can t compare him to Luke, who is more thé Scalabrine of this team. Yes Kornet is a little little bit more mobile. Compare their stat, even juste on the Season. 5 Time more points and rebounder. Drummond is Still a Monster on the offensive board. He is a liabilty on some points but get second chance points in PO translate better than the long arm 3point contestation of Luke.  DD was overvaluated, but now he may be underevaluate.  Remember how Batum was Seen as a scrubbs in Charlotte.

And for the mobility, I don t think Porzingis Can be called a mobile Defender. Yes hé stretch crazy, this is why hé is a core peace. Drummond would be here for rotation, adjusments and insurance. Not a great fit but for under 6 million what Can you get ? Former Allstar all defensive less Cook than Griffin, I Say OK. And I prefer to trade thé scrubbs + eventually Pritchard for a target at 1/2

Offensive rebounds impacted winning a long, long time ago before the game became all about the 3 point shot. This is no longer the case.

Most of your big rebounds come off of opponents missed 3's - which is why Tatum is the best rebounder on the team. If a big grabs an OR and puts it back once or twice a game - so what - it's a 2 pt shot and you can foul him and he'll miss one of the FT since Drummond's a 47% career FT shooter - making him unplayable with a game on the line.

Tatum is the best rebounder on the team because the C's bigs are terrible at getting rebounds and Tatum is now playing PF a lot more and guarding guys a bit more on the interior. 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2024_per_game.html#per_game_stats::trb_per_g

Of course for offensive rebounds, Tatum is 8th on the team in ORPG.  Holiday actually leads the team in that, but is still just 34th in the league with again the leaders all being true big guys.

It's interesting to see that per Cleaning the Glass, his defensive rebounding has always been in around the 90th %ile of players in those positions, whether he plays the 3 or 4, while for offensive rebounding he has gone from being in the 50-55th %ile 2 years ago to being in the 9th  %ile when he's playing the 4 and 47th %ile when he plays the 3. I would have to look at more granular data which I currently don't know how to do in CtG (I just got a sub the other week) but I'm guessing that because he is a perimeter shooter in general and so he either takes 3s or he drives to the rim and is not in position to get an offensive board after driving. This season he is taking more postups, but they tend to be fadeaway postups which might not put him in position to get offensive rebounds.

(click to enlarge)


The original CtG query is here https://cleaningtheglass.com/stats/player/4268/positions#tab-defense_rebounding

Here's what it is for the whole team - Jrue and Jayson are the only 2 players that are at a high percentile for their position - everyone else is worse than median (50th %ile).

(click to enlarge)


Incidentally, check out Payton Pritchard, 97th percentile for his position in offensive rebounding. At 6-1. Go PP!

https://cleaningtheglass.com/stats/team/2#tab-defense_rebounding

[ozgod]

I looked more into that PP offensive rebounding stat to see who his competition was, there's only 1 player better than him in the league at offensive rebounding for point guards - 6-10 Ben Simmons. He's ahead of Westbrick, Goodwin, LeMelo, Cole Anthony and Tre Jones, all a lot taller than him. Go PP!

[Vermont Green]

The Celtics are middle of the pack in both ORebs and opponents ORebs.  So we are giving up about what we are getting.  I disagree that rebounding in general or O-rebounding specifically are not important.  Possessions are possessions.  Giving up an offensive rebound is as bad as a turnover.  People complain like holy he!! every time Smart or Brown turned the ball over.  Giving up an OReb has no less impact.

I am not sure if shooting a lot of 3s is good or bad for offensive rebounding.  To Tatum specifically, he is our primary scorer and is not going to be in position to get ORebs, nor would we want him to be.  To me, that is the issue of not having a real PF or second big on the court.  What we are doing is taking off a big and replacing him with an extra guard (White).  Tatum is not the guy we should have out there trying to get ORebs or playing a PF role in general.

One thing that may be true is that when a team takes more 3s, the guards may be more likely to get ORebs as the rebounds tend to be longer.  I think Pritchard and Holiday are going to get their boards in any case, just by the way they play, but it does seem that shooting 3s would offer more opportunities for rebounds that a guard can get.

[Phantom255x]

Drummond feels like a realistic target. Fit him in with the TPE, only have to send back maybe 1 or 2 second rounders, and he can absolutely function as that "10-13 minute bruiser". He's averaging 6/6 in the same amount of minutes as Kornet who is averaging 4/3 and not really physical.

They definitely need a 3rd insurance big regardless at some point. Kornet is functioning as that for now, but when it's someone like Embiid/Giannis/Lopez/Bam they will absolutely abuse Kornet. Drummond at least can provide some more resistance even if he's clearly not the same guy as his prime with Detroit.

I kind of wish Griffin could come back but I guess he's retired now. Griffin did pretty well last season eating up minutes, hustling on both ends and even sparking the team at times when others were out/fatigued (Timelord + Horford)

We've been fortunate that so far KP + Horford have held up and they are managing them well, but I just worry after February when you get to "crunch time" when things can potentially get a little dicey and the games start to matter.

[No Nickname]

Drummond feels like a realistic target. Fit him in with the TPE, only have to send back maybe 1 or 2 second rounders, and he can absolutely function as that "10-13 minute bruiser". He's averaging 6/6 in the same amount of minutes as Kornet who is averaging 4/3 and not really physical.

They definitely need a 3rd insurance big regardless at some point. Kornet is functioning as that for now, but when it's someone like Embiid/Giannis/Lopez/Bam they will absolutely abuse Kornet. Drummond at least can provide some more resistance even if he's clearly not the same guy as his prime with Detroit.

I kind of wish Griffin could come back but I guess he's retired now. Griffin did pretty well last season eating up minutes, hustling on both ends and even sparking the team at times when others were out/fatigued (Timelord + Horford)

We've been fortunate that so far KP + Horford have held up and they are managing them well, but I just worry after February when you get to "crunch time" when things can potentially get a little dicey and the games start to matter.

Griffin might be waiting to come back in Jan/Feb.

Less wear and tear on his body and enough time to get geared up for the playoffs.

[GreenEnvy]

Drummond feels like a realistic target. Fit him in with the TPE, only have to send back maybe 1 or 2 second rounders, and he can absolutely function as that "10-13 minute bruiser". He's averaging 6/6 in the same amount of minutes as Kornet who is averaging 4/3 and not really physical.

They definitely need a 3rd insurance big regardless at some point. Kornet is functioning as that for now, but when it's someone like Embiid/Giannis/Lopez/Bam they will absolutely abuse Kornet. Drummond at least can provide some more resistance even if he's clearly not the same guy as his prime with Detroit.

I kind of wish Griffin could come back but I guess he's retired now. Griffin did pretty well last season eating up minutes, hustling on both ends and even sparking the team at times when others were out/fatigued (Timelord + Horford)

We've been fortunate that so far KP + Horford have held up and they are managing them well, but I just worry after February when you get to "crunch time" when things can potentially get a little dicey and the games start to matter.

Can someone explain to me how Drummond is only 30 years old? I feel like he’s been in the league for 20 years. Crazy.

As for fit, I guess he can fill the Timelord role of defender and lob threat, and still be a great rebounder. But we know Joe and Brad love those stretch bigs, so maybe they are looking for something different with Kornet already in the rotation.