Author Topic: TPE's  (Read 13758 times)

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Re: TPE's
« Reply #60 on: May 05, 2022, 03:52:56 PM »

Offline sgrogan

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Jalen Smith is absolutely an interesting player but likely not with a TPE.  That would have to be a sign and trade and I don't even know if Indy could do that if they wanted due to the contract situation.  As I understand it, because PHO declined his 3rd year option of $4.67M, the the team holding his contract (now IND) cannot sign him for more than that amount.  So I guess we could get him in a sign and trade for that amount but if he would take that, IND would probably just keep him.  Plus we would end up hard capped by the S&T and I don't think it is worth the hard cap for him.

Instead we could sign him up to the TP-MLE amount of $6.3M (he is a UFA).  $6.3M is more than $4.7M so that is good.  I don't know how good he really is but he is exactly the type of player we need, an athletic, full-sized PF who has shown he can shoot/score some.  He finished the season very strong with IND.  It really didn't work out for him in PHO and he may shy away from being lower on the depth chart on a good team again so I don't know how good of a fit Boston would be from his perspective but from our perspective, it would be great.
I want nothing to do with a sign and trade.
At approx. 6.3M he would be paid like a 4th overall pick in this years draft. That probably over valuing him but given our assets we need to take some chances. Hopefully the 1.5M delta would lure him away from IND. I don't think another team, even with the full MLE would offer more. We don't have a 1st this year, so he's my rookie.

Re: TPE's
« Reply #61 on: May 05, 2022, 04:05:41 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Jalen Smith is absolutely an interesting player but likely not with a TPE.  That would have to be a sign and trade and I don't even know if Indy could do that if they wanted due to the contract situation.  As I understand it, because PHO declined his 3rd year option of $4.67M, the the team holding his contract (now IND) cannot sign him for more than that amount.  So I guess we could get him in a sign and trade for that amount but if he would take that, IND would probably just keep him.  Plus we would end up hard capped by the S&T and I don't think it is worth the hard cap for him.

Instead we could sign him up to the TP-MLE amount of $6.3M (he is a UFA).  $6.3M is more than $4.7M so that is good.  I don't know how good he really is but he is exactly the type of player we need, an athletic, full-sized PF who has shown he can shoot/score some.  He finished the season very strong with IND.  It really didn't work out for him in PHO and he may shy away from being lower on the depth chart on a good team again so I don't know how good of a fit Boston would be from his perspective but from our perspective, it would be great.
I want nothing to do with a sign and trade.
At approx. 6.3M he would be paid like a 4th overall pick in this years draft. That probably over valuing him but given our assets we need to take some chances. Hopefully the 1.5M delta would lure him away from IND. I don't think another team, even with the full MLE would offer more. We don't have a 1st this year, so he's my rookie.

I like it.  I have no feel for his market value so I will take your word for it.  Another thing I have been holding out hope for is that Juhann Bergarin can make the team and be like a draft pick for us.  Not sure he is quite ready but I thought he looked promising last summer.  If we could add Jalen Smith and Bergarin, it would be a good "draft".

And I only mentioned the S&T because this thread is titled "TPEs" and this acquisition as discussed using a TP-MLE would not help with utilizing our TPE (so technically "off topic").  But I see you get all that.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2022, 04:17:12 PM by Vermont Green »

Re: TPE's
« Reply #62 on: May 05, 2022, 04:13:57 PM »

Offline sgrogan

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Jalen Smith is absolutely an interesting player but likely not with a TPE.  That would have to be a sign and trade and I don't even know if Indy could do that if they wanted due to the contract situation.  As I understand it, because PHO declined his 3rd year option of $4.67M, the the team holding his contract (now IND) cannot sign him for more than that amount.  So I guess we could get him in a sign and trade for that amount but if he would take that, IND would probably just keep him.  Plus we would end up hard capped by the S&T and I don't think it is worth the hard cap for him.

Instead we could sign him up to the TP-MLE amount of $6.3M (he is a UFA).  $6.3M is more than $4.7M so that is good.  I don't know how good he really is but he is exactly the type of player we need, an athletic, full-sized PF who has shown he can shoot/score some.  He finished the season very strong with IND.  It really didn't work out for him in PHO and he may shy away from being lower on the depth chart on a good team again so I don't know how good of a fit Boston would be from his perspective but from our perspective, it would be great.
I want nothing to do with a sign and trade.
At approx. 6.3M he would be paid like a 4th overall pick in this years draft. That probably over valuing him but given our assets we need to take some chances. Hopefully the 1.5M delta would lure him away from IND. I don't think another team, even with the full MLE would offer more. We don't have a 1st this year, so he's my rookie.

I like it.  I have no feel for his market value so I will take your word for it.  Another thing I have been holding out hope for is that Juhann Bergarin can make the team and be like a draft pick for us.  Not sure he is quite ready but I thought he looked promising last summer.  If we could add Jalen Smith and Bergarin, it would be a good "draft".

And I only mentioned the S&T because this thread is titled "TPEs" and this acquisition as discussed using a PT-MLE would not help with utilizing our TPE (so technically "off topic").  But I see you get all that.

That's fair. A better title might have been "limited assets, how to use TPE's, TP_MLE, and vet-mins most effectively"


Re: TPE's
« Reply #63 on: May 05, 2022, 05:46:23 PM »

Offline Big333223

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I'm thinking that one of the reasons Brad so easily gave up a first rounder to get White is that he's looking at adding Mader and/or Begarin to the team next season and that's your "draft pick".

I'm looking at a list of free agents, thinking that maybe the Celtics could use the TPE in a s&t and basically pick up an extra free agent that way.

Bobby Portis is actually going to be a free agent this summer but the C's wouldn't have a starting job to offer. Thomas Bryant's health is a question mark but he showed some signs of being a good player. Nic Claxton is someone I think is interesting. Chris Boucher has skill but why was he out of Toronto's rotation so much? Jalen Smith was mentioned before. Otto Porter would be a nice pickup. Cody Martin had a solid season in Charlotte.

Not sure if any of those names are inspiring.
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Re: TPE's
« Reply #64 on: May 05, 2022, 09:41:52 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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Jalen Smith is the guy I’d like to add. I think he would fit great next to TimeLord and would flourish.

He’s exactly what the team needs - an athletic, long, high energy 6’10” power forward, who is long around the rim with a three pout shot and other developing offensive skills.

This said, perhaps his best skill for us is that he runs the floor very hard. Get him in here and give him a few years with Horford, TLord, Theis and GWill and he likely flourishes.

A year or two down the road, a super athletic, long and high flying starting five. He can also ply some small ball five.

Time Lord
Smith
Tatum
Brown
Smart

Re: TPE's
« Reply #65 on: May 05, 2022, 10:00:16 PM »

Offline pokeKingCurtis

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Jalen Smith is the guy I’d like to add. I think he would fit great next to TimeLord and would flourish.

He’s exactly what the team needs - an athletic, long, high energy 6’10” power forward, who is long around the rim with a three pout shot and other developing offensive skills.

This said, perhaps his best skill for us is that he runs the floor very hard. Get him in here and give him a few years with Horford, TLord, Theis and GWill and he likely flourishes.

A year or two down the road, a super athletic, long and high flying starting five. He can also ply some small ball five.

Time Lord
Smith
Tatum
Brown
Smart

Sorry but we've had way too much of the three pout shot from Kyrie already, not sure we're ready for more from Jalen Smith.

Jokes aside, I love staying big and defensive...

Re: TPE's
« Reply #66 on: May 05, 2022, 10:18:30 PM »

Offline bowlingwarnie

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Time Lord
Smith
Tatum
Brown
Smart

this gave me the feels ...
why Johnny Ringo...
You look like somebody just walked over your grave

Re: TPE's
« Reply #67 on: May 06, 2022, 10:57:59 AM »

Offline nebist

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The Clippers extended Robert Covington yesterday for 2/24. I saw that it bumped their expected tax bill from something like 17 mil to 50+ mil for their current roster.

Will Ballmer just pay whatever it takes for the best possible roster? Or, do you guys think that deal makes it more likely that Marcus Morris (2/33) or Luke Kennard (2/28) becomes available for the TPE?

If they do want to limit costs and dump one of these players, I would expect Kennard to come cheap (Nesmith and maybe a 2nd?), but I could see them holding out for a lotto-protected 1st for Morris.

Re: TPE's
« Reply #68 on: May 06, 2022, 12:59:20 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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pokeKingCurtis: Do you mean staying big and defensive in that if we signed Smith and he panned out he would give us that great size the the four next to Time Lord?

bowlingwarnie: "the feels" in a good or bad way.

I think Smith could be outstanding for us. Potential to give us 12-15 a night and 7-8 boards, high energy floor running with Tatum and Brown. Then, as he works within our defensive system and with gritty guys like TLord, Horford, Theis and Williams - I think he has the potential to become impactful, with his length and activity, around the rim defensively. Tim Lord and Smith provide a ton of length and energy at/around the rim.

I liked this guy coming out in the draft. Didn't expect him to go #10, was hoping to pick him up with the 26th, possibly with the 14th - though I liked Saddiq Bey and Precious Achiuwa there. I just hadn't heard much on Nesmith and hadn't seen him play much either. He was a hard read for me.

The 30th pick: 100% locked in on Desmond Bane. But Ainge like to trade anything over the 27th pick to Memphis. I like a lot of what Ainge did and he is due a high level of credit this team's construction, but - I absolutely hated giving up Bane, especially as he was at #30...   

Re: TPE's
« Reply #69 on: May 06, 2022, 01:25:08 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I don't see Jalen Smith becoming available. 22 years old. Intriguing talent. Desirable measurables. Posting good stats. Rookie contract.

That's exactly the type player a rebuilding team like Indy keeps. No way he is able to be traded for without really good stuff going back.

Re: TPE's
« Reply #70 on: May 06, 2022, 01:49:55 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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I don't see Jalen Smith becoming available. 22 years old. Intriguing talent. Desirable measurables. Posting good stats. Rookie contract.

That's exactly the type player a rebuilding team like Indy keeps. No way he is able to be traded for without really good stuff going back.

The problem is that he's probably not going to be able to stick around in Indy.  Phoenix declined his rookie option, so Indy is limited to offering him the amount of that rookie option, I believe.  From memory, it's roughly $4 million?

Meanwhile, the other 29 teams can offer him more by using their MLE.  But you're correct, a trade won't make much sense, because I think Indy is limited to the rookie scale amount when sign and trading him, too.


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Re: TPE's
« Reply #71 on: May 06, 2022, 01:55:14 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Some other stuff I see here have the C's doing a sign and trade. Normally I would do the figures myself but am busy so maybe someone could help, but I don't think a sign & trade would be in the Celtics best interest because of the hard cap involved, especially if Horford's salary increases kick in. I don't see Stevens wanting to operate under a hard cap in a season where a championship will clearly be on the table.

Re: TPE's
« Reply #72 on: May 06, 2022, 02:00:08 PM »

Offline Celtics2021

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I don't see Jalen Smith becoming available. 22 years old. Intriguing talent. Desirable measurables. Posting good stats. Rookie contract.

That's exactly the type player a rebuilding team like Indy keeps. No way he is able to be traded for without really good stuff going back.

The problem is that he's probably not going to be able to stick around in Indy.  Phoenix declined his rookie option, so Indy is limited to offering him the amount of that rookie option, I believe.  From memory, it's roughly $4 million?

Meanwhile, the other 29 teams can offer him more by using their MLE.  But you're correct, a trade won't make much sense, because I think Indy is limited to the rookie scale amount when sign and trading him, too.

Yeah, the most Indy can offer him is ~$4.7 million, whether he’s kept or traded.  That said, I think people overrate him a bit on this site, and I don’t think there’s a team rushing to use the MLE on him.

Re: TPE's
« Reply #73 on: May 06, 2022, 02:07:26 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Some other stuff I see here have the C's doing a sign and trade. Normally I would do the figures myself but am busy so maybe someone could help, but I don't think a sign & trade would be in the Celtics best interest because of the hard cap involved, especially if Horford's salary increases kick in. I don't see Stevens wanting to operate under a hard cap in a season where a championship will clearly be on the table.

Yeah, I don't think we do a S&T, either.

I think the best thing to use at least the $17 million TPE on some usable players on expiring contracts.  It's one of the reasons I mentioned Jeff Green and Josh Richardson, but your suggestion of Justin Holiday works, too.  You get a look at those guys.  If they work out, great.  If not, you can aggregate their salaries before the trade deadline to bring in somebody making more than the $17 million TPE.


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Re: TPE's
« Reply #74 on: May 07, 2022, 12:55:19 PM »

Offline sgrogan

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I don't see Jalen Smith becoming available. 22 years old. Intriguing talent. Desirable measurables. Posting good stats. Rookie contract.

That's exactly the type player a rebuilding team like Indy keeps. No way he is able to be traded for without really good stuff going back.

The problem is that he's probably not going to be able to stick around in Indy.  Phoenix declined his rookie option, so Indy is limited to offering him the amount of that rookie option, I believe.  From memory, it's roughly $4 million?

Meanwhile, the other 29 teams can offer him more by using their MLE.  But you're correct, a trade won't make much sense, because I think Indy is limited to the rookie scale amount when sign and trading him, too.

Yeah, the most Indy can offer him is ~$4.7 million, whether he’s kept or traded.  That said, I think people overrate him a bit on this site, and I don’t think there’s a team rushing to use the MLE on him.
I think he is probably overrated but....
He's 22 yrs old, long, and an UFA
We don't have a first round pick
IND can offer him ~4.7M
BOS can offer him up to ~6.4M on the TP-MLE
I don't see him getting offers of ~10.3M on the full MLE
Rookie scale for the 7th overall pick is ~ 1.2 x 4.9 = ~5.9M

The C's have limited assets to acquire talent. The whole TPE discussion revolves around one of these assets being ownership's willingness to spend into the tax.
The TP-MLE came into the discussion when Roy made the good point that ownership may not go as far as spending the 17M TPE (on two players 12M + 5M) I proposed using part of the TPE on a 12M player and 6.4ish on the TP-MLE.

For the TPE (either the big 17M or the smaller ones) we need to send something out. I don't want to touch the top 9 of our rotation without a clear upgrade, I don't want to trade any of our future firsts. I like both Richardson and Holiday, but are they available for at absolute most Neismith + 2nd?
I'm not married to Olynyk, his appeal for me is he's potentially available for nothing of value in a DET salary dump, his salary could be aggregated in a future trade and could have a role in a break glass in case of emergency.

After we exhaust the TPE and TP-MLE we are left with our 2nd and Vet-min contracts to fill out the roster.

And finally I've dismissed S&T as it would hard cap us. At the moment we have ~155M allocated for 14 players with a projected apron of about 155M. It would most likely require multiple deals to use anything close to the 17M TPE.