Can we never see another Tatum simmons comparison?

[Celtics2021]

When rumors of Philly possibly trading Simmons last year surfaced, Doc Rivers shot them down immediately saying he wanted a full year with Embiid and Simmons to see what he had in the two stars.

I can't help but wonder if Doc sees Simmons limitations and lack of development as a reason to tell Morey to move on from Ben and trade him for a different star to team with Embiid.

He can have Kemba and we’ll take Simmons?  Simmons has his flaws, but his strengths would fit this team very well.

[Moranis]

The Sixers biggest problem is Embiid just can't stay healthy and when he leaves they just don't have anyone else that can effectively fill the #1 scoring role.  Harris is best suited as a 2nd or 3rd option and Simmons should never be relied upon to be a scoring option at all.  The Sixers need a real legit scoring option on their team outside of Embiid.  If they could somehow upgrade Harris into a more consistent scorer, I think they'd probably win the title, but until they do that they are always going to struggle against the elite teams that can either cause Embiid trouble or that can really punish them when Embiid is on the bench. 

As for Simmons, he is one of, if not the, best defenders in the sport.  He is a superb passer and rebounder.  He is a terrible scorer and shooter and always has been.  The greatest disservice the Sixers did was in trying to make him a pure PG because doing that they needed him to score more and shoot more.  Simmons is a PF and should always have been playing PF.  They can run the offense through him, but they need a real PG on their team.  They are doing a lot better this year by starting 2 actual guards in Curry and Green, which has helped, and we saw the result in the regular season. Ultimately I don't think the Curry and Green combo is good enough for the Sixers to win the title, and I expect them to lose to whomever wins the Brooklyn/Milwaukee series (I don't think the Hawks will really challenge them, but if Embiid's knee is an issue they could), but they are functioning better than they ever have with a more cohesive unit. 

I actually think a Walker for Harris swap would be interesting for both teams.  That would seemingly solve some of the issues that each team has.  The Celtics need a guy capable of playing PF full time, but that wouldn't harm the way the offense functions.  Harris is quick enough and big enough to play in the C's system.  He is younger and healthier than Walker as well and he is clearly a similar level of scorer at this point so he could fit pretty seamlessly as the C's 3rd option (and occasional 2nd option).  For the Sixers, Walker would take a lot more pressure off of both Embiid and Simmons than Harris does as he is a true scoring PG.  I think he'd fit well there in that role. 

[slamtheking]

The Sixers biggest problem is Embiid just can't stay healthy and when he leaves they just don't have anyone else that can effectively fill the #1 scoring role.  Harris is best suited as a 2nd or 3rd option and Simmons should never be relied upon to be a scoring option at all.  The Sixers need a real legit scoring option on their team outside of Embiid.  If they could somehow upgrade Harris into a more consistent scorer, I think they'd probably win the title, but until they do that they are always going to struggle against the elite teams that can either cause Embiid trouble or that can really punish them when Embiid is on the bench. 

As for Simmons, he is one of, if not the, best defenders in the sport.  He is a superb passer and rebounder.  He is a terrible scorer and shooter and always has been.  The greatest disservice the Sixers did was in trying to make him a pure PG because doing that they needed him to score more and shoot more.  Simmons is a PF and should always have been playing PF.  They can run the offense through him, but they need a real PG on their team.  They are doing a lot better this year by starting 2 actual guards in Curry and Green, which has helped, and we saw the result in the regular season. Ultimately I don't think the Curry and Green combo is good enough for the Sixers to win the title, and I expect them to lose to whomever wins the Brooklyn/Milwaukee series (I don't think the Hawks will really challenge them, but if Embiid's knee is an issue they could), but they are functioning better than they ever have with a more cohesive unit. 

I actually think a Walker for Harris swap would be interesting for both teams.  That would seemingly solve some of the issues that each team has.  The Celtics need a guy capable of playing PF full time, but that wouldn't harm the way the offense functions.  Harris is quick enough and big enough to play in the C's system.  He is younger and healthier than Walker as well and he is clearly a similar level of scorer at this point so he could fit pretty seamlessly as the C's 3rd option (and occasional 2nd option).  For the Sixers, Walker would take a lot more pressure off of both Embiid and Simmons than Harris does as he is a true scoring PG.  I think he'd fit well there in that role.

interesting swap proposal.  not a fan of Harris since he has a tendency to disappear like Kemba has and he's not really bulky enough to be a typical PF but he does offer the possibility of being able to score as much as Kemba and a line-up of Tatum/Brown/Fournier/Harris/Smart (or Pritchard) would be really hard for other teams to guard. 

[celticsclay]

Come on now, I was reliably told by this board a week ago that Simmons is more deserving of All NBA than Tatum.

Yeah several posters had him making it and saying Tatum didn’t have a shot.

[gouki88]

The Sixers biggest problem is Embiid just can't stay healthy and when he leaves they just don't have anyone else that can effectively fill the #1 scoring role.  Harris is best suited as a 2nd or 3rd option and Simmons should never be relied upon to be a scoring option at all.  The Sixers need a real legit scoring option on their team outside of Embiid.  If they could somehow upgrade Harris into a more consistent scorer, I think they'd probably win the title, but until they do that they are always going to struggle against the elite teams that can either cause Embiid trouble or that can really punish them when Embiid is on the bench. 

As for Simmons, he is one of, if not the, best defenders in the sport. He is a superb passer and rebounder.  He is a terrible scorer and shooter and always has been.  The greatest disservice the Sixers did was in trying to make him a pure PG because doing that they needed him to score more and shoot more.  Simmons is a PF and should always have been playing PF.  They can run the offense through him, but they need a real PG on their team.  They are doing a lot better this year by starting 2 actual guards in Curry and Green, which has helped, and we saw the result in the regular season. Ultimately I don't think the Curry and Green combo is good enough for the Sixers to win the title, and I expect them to lose to whomever wins the Brooklyn/Milwaukee series (I don't think the Hawks will really challenge them, but if Embiid's knee is an issue they could), but they are functioning better than they ever have with a more cohesive unit. 

I actually think a Walker for Harris swap would be interesting for both teams.  That would seemingly solve some of the issues that each team has.  The Celtics need a guy capable of playing PF full time, but that wouldn't harm the way the offense functions.  Harris is quick enough and big enough to play in the C's system.  He is younger and healthier than Walker as well and he is clearly a similar level of scorer at this point so he could fit pretty seamlessly as the C's 3rd option (and occasional 2nd option).  For the Sixers, Walker would take a lot more pressure off of both Embiid and Simmons than Harris does as he is a true scoring PG.  I think he'd fit well there in that role.

No, he is not. He is a good passer and rebounder, but there is a mile between his playmaking and rebounding and the elite levels. He is also not the best defender in the competition, that's Gobert and then daylight.

The Harris - Kemba swap could be interesting, but there's no way I'd want to pay Tobias Harris $36m a year until 2024. He's a good player, but that is a hard contract to come to terms with

[ozgod]

Here's a comparison of Simmons, Jaylen, Jayson and Donovan Mitchell, from their rookie seasons to this season. That would be 4 years for Simmons, Jayson and Donovan and 5 seasons for Jaylen.

[nickagneta]

Here's a comparison of Simmons, Jaylen, Jayson and Donovan Mitchell, from their rookie seasons to this season. That would be 4 years for Simmons, Jayson and Donovan and 5 seasons for Jaylen.

Looking at those numbers, it's pretty obvious the Jays games have grown quite a bit. It's also obvious that Simmons game has not grown.

But what about Mitchell. Has his game grown or is he just shooting more? I guess the growth has been his playmaking but is he really all that much better than he was as a rookie?

[ozgod]

Here's a comparison of Simmons, Jaylen, Jayson and Donovan Mitchell, from their rookie seasons to this season. That would be 4 years for Simmons, Jayson and Donovan and 5 seasons for Jaylen.

Looking at those numbers, it's pretty obvious the Jays games have grown quite a bit. It's also obvious that Simmons game has not grown.

But what about Mitchell. Has his game grown or is he just shooting more? I guess the growth has been his playmaking but is he really all that much better than he was as a rookie?

I suspect it has to do with usage...Jaylen was very underused during his rookie season. Tatum started his first season but he was playing alongside other high usage guys like Cryrie, Mook, and he had to share the floor with Al, Terry and Jaylen. Those guys were part of an ensemble cast. As for Mitchell, he was thrust into being the No1 scoring option for Utah with Gordon's departure so he was taking 17 shots a game already his rookie season. Plus the fact that he was a couple of years older and probably physically more developed. His efficiencies haven't really improved that much other than his shooting from 3 (which is also where JT and JB have improved significantly) but he's distributing the ball more.

As for Simmons, I don't think he's improved at all...he's still the same player he was when he came into the league. He not added anything to his arsenal. I can't speak for his work ethic and I'm sure that any NBA player works his butt off, but he strikes me as someone who is comfortable with his existing physical gifts and is not interested in getting better.

[tazzmaniac]

Here's a comparison of Simmons, Jaylen, Jayson and Donovan Mitchell, from their rookie seasons to this season. That would be 4 years for Simmons, Jayson and Donovan and 5 seasons for Jaylen.

Looking at those numbers, it's pretty obvious the Jays games have grown quite a bit. It's also obvious that Simmons game has not grown.

But what about Mitchell. Has his game grown or is he just shooting more? I guess the growth has been his playmaking but is he really all that much better than he was as a rookie?

I suspect it has to do with usage...Jaylen was very underused during his rookie season. Tatum started his first season but he was playing alongside other high usage guys like Cryrie, Mook, and he had to share the floor with Al, Terry and Jaylen. Those guys were part of an ensemble cast. As for Mitchell, he was thrust into being the No1 scoring option for Utah with Gordon's departure so he was taking 17 shots a game already his rookie season. Plus the fact that he was a couple of years older and probably physically more developed. His efficiencies haven't really improved that much other than his shooting from 3 (which is also where JT and JB have improved significantly) but he's distributing the ball more.

As for Simmons, I don't think he's improved at all...he's still the same player he was when he came into the league. He not added anything to his arsenal. I can't speak for his work ethic and I'm sure that any NBA player works his butt off, but he strikes me as someone who is comfortable with his existing physical gifts and is not interested in getting better.

Offensively Simmons hasn't improved but he's become a much, much better defender. 

[gouki88]

Here's a comparison of Simmons, Jaylen, Jayson and Donovan Mitchell, from their rookie seasons to this season. That would be 4 years for Simmons, Jayson and Donovan and 5 seasons for Jaylen.

Looking at those numbers, it's pretty obvious the Jays games have grown quite a bit. It's also obvious that Simmons game has not grown.

But what about Mitchell. Has his game grown or is he just shooting more? I guess the growth has been his playmaking but is he really all that much better than he was as a rookie?

I suspect it has to do with usage...Jaylen was very underused during his rookie season. Tatum started his first season but he was playing alongside other high usage guys like Cryrie, Mook, and he had to share the floor with Al, Terry and Jaylen. Those guys were part of an ensemble cast. As for Mitchell, he was thrust into being the No1 scoring option for Utah with Gordon's departure so he was taking 17 shots a game already his rookie season. Plus the fact that he was a couple of years older and probably physically more developed. His efficiencies haven't really improved that much other than his shooting from 3 (which is also where JT and JB have improved significantly) but he's distributing the ball more.

As for Simmons, I don't think he's improved at all...he's still the same player he was when he came into the league. He not added anything to his arsenal. I can't speak for his work ethic and I'm sure that any NBA player works his butt off, but he strikes me as someone who is comfortable with his existing physical gifts and is not interested in getting better.

Offensively Simmons hasn't improved but he's become a much, much better defender.

Except his defence regressed from 19-20 to 20-21, which hurts that case.

[Kiorrik]

Here's a comparison of Simmons, Jaylen, Jayson and Donovan Mitchell, from their rookie seasons to this season. That would be 4 years for Simmons, Jayson and Donovan and 5 seasons for Jaylen.

Dang Jaylen. That's impressive improvement.

Also, I didn't realize Jay's numbers were that close to each-other.

Hope we keep 'm.