Just be better than Charlotte. Please!

[Tr1boy]

So hornets won last night.

We’re like 2.5 games ahead of them.

Idk if anyone else feels this way. But god I hope we finish the season ahead of them.

Losing Hayward to them for nothing was a huge screw up by us.

But at least the hornets were supposed to suck.

Now if they’re better than us that’s just an even bigger slap in the face.

What in the world happened here? This sucks!!

They have better ovrall depth than the Celts

And Ball is living up to the hype

Lets see if anything changes when SmartFord returns

[Moranis]

Would be really interesting seeing all the “Hayward cares more about money than winning” posters and their reactions

I still believed he cared more for the money, but now that team is coming together.  He could have remained a C, been the third option behind JB and JT, still received a hell of a payday, but he didn't want that.  Most of the GH issue is purely on Danny.  If he had acted swiftly, GH is in IND and Turner plus one is in BOS, instead, he gave CLT time to act, and act they did.

Please don't spread opinion as fact. It is fine if you want to preface your statement with "I believe...", but, personally, I believe that Hayward's agent was always going to circle back around to all of the teams who showed interest. The fact that CHA offered the most money (which IND didn't match) and his wife specifically mentioned the CHA connection from Hayward's first FA, should give the IND/Turner believers some pause.

why would Indiana match if they couldn't work out a sign and trade with Boston?  There was no point for Indiana to increase their offer to Hayward if Ainge wasn't going to budge on what he wanted, which was too much for Indiana to pay.  If Ainge would have taken Turner, McDermott, and a 1st, then Hayward would almost certainly be in Indiana, but Ainge didn't think that was enough.

Because Charlotte offer substantially weakened Ainge's bargaining position with Indiana, and Ainge may have accepted Indy's original offer once the threat of him going to Charlotte for nuthin came out. If Indy was indeed Gordon's first choice to play, his agent most certainly would have gone back to Indy to ask them (and Boston) and tell them unless the Boston and Indy get their act together, Gordon is gonzo.  My guess is that Indy got deal fatigue negotiating with Ainge, and when Charlotte offer was communicated to them, Indy declined to pursue any further.

That just doesn't match what has been reported though.  Even Ainge himself hinted that he was playing hard ball and regretted it.  Indiana had no incentive to increase its offer to Hayward if Boston wasn't going to accept Turner, McDermott, 1st because that is all Indiana was going to offer.  Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, that has been reported from all sides involved was that Ainge was never going to accept that trade package.  The deal didn't get done because of that.

I understand what you are saying. I'm not disagreeing with Ainge's insistence on a better trade package.  What is being discussed above is more nuanced: Did Ainge continue to insist on a better deal once Charlotte offer came into the picture?  Remember that offer came out of left field, frankly it wasn't mentioned by anyone in the media until it was announced that Hayward had agreed to sign with them.  I recall reading reports that Indy was not willing to go that high. If so, this implies that they were at least offered the opportunity to match Charlotte. Your point is, why would Indy bother, if Ainge wouldn't agree to reasonable trade package.  That is speculation on your part. My speculation is that Ainge is a rational business man, and a rational business man would recognize that his bargaining power diminished significantly once the Charlotte offer was on the table, due to its amount and length (recall that the only other reported offers were Knick offers for less $$ and shorter term).  My speculation is that Ainge more likely than not would have been inclined to reduce his offer once the Charlotte offer was on table. But Indy had deal fatigue, and/or was unwilling to increase their offer. (wasn't there published reports that Indy was not willing to pay Gordon that much?  Seem to recall).  If what you are saying is that Ainge, even after the Charlotte offer was on the table, was still insisting on the original trade package, I just have a hard time believing that.

Why?  Ainge didn't want Turner and McDermott (one or the other, but not both).  Why would it matter if there was another offer if Ainge didn't want that trade package.  I don't necessarily think Ainge was playing hardball, I really just don't think he wanted the package that Indiana was willing to pay.  That is why the deal didn't happen, because neither side was willing to accept what the other side was offering/wanting.

Then you are buying into the argument that the TPE was worth more to Ainge than McDermott, Turner plus 1st round pick, which doesn't make sense.  Ainge was trying to bargain hard with Indy because he assumed that Hayward wasn't seriously considering a third option.  The Charlotte offer flipped the script on him. That is my take.

I do actually think Ainge preferred the TPE because he didn't want both McDermott and Turner on the roster.  The reason he was asking around the league about Turner is because he just didn't want both those contracts on the roster.  The team would probably be in the luxury tax with that trade and Ainge, probably correctly, felt that those 2 guys weren't going to elevate Boston into the next tier, so why pay the luxury tax for them.  So I just disagree with you on that.  I really don't think Ainge had any interest in the package Indiana was offering and Indiana wasn't going to change it up, so there just wasn't a deal to be made.  Now we can certainly disagree as to whether or not Ainge should have taken that deal, but I just don't think he wanted to so what happened in Charlotte made no real difference.  Boston and Indiana were just not going to be able to work out a trade without a 3rd team and they couldn't find a 3rd team to take Turner.

[johnnygreen]

With the way the Celtics are playing now, they don’t deserve anything. I have nothing but respect for Hayward, and wish him well.

We have all heard the complaints that Hayward left because of money or wanted to be the man again and put up statistics. Could it simply be that he wanted to be respected by his teammates? When Hayward came back from his injury, there were nonstop rumors of teammates complaining that Gordon shouldn’t be starting and it’s because he’s the coaches “son”. Maybe it’s just me, but it had a racist undertone. There is a reason Hayward is on his third (?) max contract. I know we all believe Tatum and Brown are really good players, but they are still not the overall player Gordon is. I still feel Hayward was being held back in Boston because everyone involved in the organization couldn’t get past the injury and simply forgot how good of a player he was.

Ironically, it’s looking like Tatum and Brown are the ones more concerned about putting up numbers and making the All-Star team than winning. Meanwhile Gordon is quietly putting up virtually identical numbers that he had the last year he was in Utah.