Rumor: Raptors and Celtics the two favorites for James Harden

[GreenlyGreeny]

Here’s the trade to get everybody what they want:

https://tradenba.com/trades/4Ia6kNytA

Kemba doesn’t feel so bad going home to Charlotte (with the trade kicker) with Gordon and LaMelo as his supporting cast now instead of doing it all on his own (and their cap situation is solid next offseason). If Kemba and Gordon stay healthy (good luck!) and LaMelo develops into an all-star as expected, that’s a very competitive team in the near-future. Danny and MJ have made trades recently so perhaps this is on the docket.

Rockets can later flip Scary Terry or try to build him up next to Wall. They get a boatload of picks (Five first-round picks and a dozen second-round picks—17 picks!—by far the biggest haul ever so they get to save face on losing Harden). They also get Langford, a lottery pick last year, along with R. Williams, who could become their best center since Capela. Them taking Green is doing us a solid so we can add a ring-chasing vet.

Yes, we lose a lot of picks and some prospects, but we get Harden, Tatum, Brown, Smart and TT with a decent bench and retain our intriguing rookies (and surely a couple ring-chasing vets will follow Harden; don’t forget the TPE is still available, too!)

[Somebody]

Brown for Harden is an interesting question.

Jaylen is about to be tested IMO.  With Hayward gone and Kemba out, he'll be asked to take on a much greater offensive burden than he's ever had to take before.  To this point, he's been a finisher more than a creator - transition threat, spot-up shooter, secondary slasher.  And he's good at those things, but he has rarely been asked to create offense himself. 

There's a real chance that he fails that test.  Creating efficient offense - whether for himself or others - may just not be in his skillset, and if that's the case, then the Celtics will need to reevaluate him as a very good roleplayer rather than a legitimate second building block star next to Tatum.  Hopefully the Celtics already know internally how it'll go and are able to act accordingly.  Because rising star Jaylen is a guy you keep unless another team offers something stupid, but roleplayer Jaylen might be a guy you look to move while his value still reflects a high ceiling that may or may not actually exist.

How does being unable to carry an offence as a #1 make a player a very good role player rather than a secondary or tertiary star?

[gouki88]

Brown for Harden is an interesting question.

Jaylen is about to be tested IMO.  With Hayward gone and Kemba out, he'll be asked to take on a much greater offensive burden than he's ever had to take before.  To this point, he's been a finisher more than a creator - transition threat, spot-up shooter, secondary slasher.  And he's good at those things, but he has rarely been asked to create offense himself. 

There's a real chance that he fails that test.  Creating efficient offense - whether for himself or others - may just not be in his skillset, and if that's the case, then the Celtics will need to reevaluate him as a very good roleplayer rather than a legitimate second building block star next to Tatum.  Hopefully the Celtics already know internally how it'll go and are able to act accordingly.  Because rising star Jaylen is a guy you keep unless another team offers something stupid, but roleplayer Jaylen might be a guy you look to move while his value still reflects a high ceiling that may or may not actually exist.

How does being unable to carry an offence as a #1 make a player a very good role player rather than a secondary or tertiary star?

Yeah, it’s basically a pre-requisite. Klay, Tony Parker / FMVP Kawhi, Siakam / Lowry, and many more have been championship winning #2s despite not being able to carry an offence to wins as the #1 (at the time)

[boscel33]

Everyone keeps tossing out packages to trade Brown away.

I suggest you all go out and look at Basketball Reference and compare Brown and Leonard.  Last year was Browns 4th season and he was 23.  Leonard also had a 4th season and was 23 at the time.  Brown is a better player at this point of their careers, at the same age and years in the NBA.

I'm hanging with JB (Leonard pt2), you can have Harden.  He'll wreck Tatum's growth!

[gouki88]

Everyone keeps tossing out packages to trade Brown away.

I suggest you all go out and look at Basketball Reference and compare Brown and Leonard.  Last year was Browns 4th season and he was 23.  Leonard also had a 4th season and was 23 at the time.  Brown is a better player at this point of their careers, at the same age and years in the NBA.

I'm hanging with JB (Leonard pt2), you can have Harden.  He'll wreck Tatum's growth!

Kawhi Leonard, a player with unforeseen and unprecedented development under one of the best coaches of all time, is not the normal. Jaylen is much more Jimmy Butler than Kawhi Leonard. Jaylen doesn’t sniff Kawhi defensively at the same stage

[A Future of Stevens]

Everyone keeps tossing out packages to trade Brown away.

I suggest you all go out and look at Basketball Reference and compare Brown and Leonard.  Last year was Browns 4th season and he was 23.  Leonard also had a 4th season and was 23 at the time.  Brown is a better player at this point of their careers, at the same age and years in the NBA.

I'm hanging with JB (Leonard pt2), you can have Harden.  He'll wreck Tatum's growth!

Kawhi Leonard, a player with unforeseen and unprecedented development under one of the best coaches of all time, is not the normal. Jaylen is much more Jimmy Butler than Kawhi Leonard. Jaylen doesn’t sniff Kawhi defensively at the same stage

Jimmy B was also 2 years older than Brown was during those compared seasons. While I agree Kawhi is an outlier, saying Brown is on the Butler track, but two years ahead is a great outcome.

[Somebody]

Everyone keeps tossing out packages to trade Brown away.

I suggest you all go out and look at Basketball Reference and compare Brown and Leonard.  Last year was Browns 4th season and he was 23.  Leonard also had a 4th season and was 23 at the time.  Brown is a better player at this point of their careers, at the same age and years in the NBA.

I'm hanging with JB (Leonard pt2), you can have Harden.  He'll wreck Tatum's growth!

Kawhi Leonard, a player with unforeseen and unprecedented development under one of the best coaches of all time, is not the normal. Jaylen is much more Jimmy Butler than Kawhi Leonard. Jaylen doesn’t sniff Kawhi defensively at the same stage

Jimmy B was also 2 years older than Brown was during those compared seasons. While I agree Kawhi is an outlier, saying Brown is on the Butler track, but two years ahead is a great outcome.

He might not even be on the Butler track (Butler's development was a huge outlier, not many players improve from 28-30), and even if he was he'd be an All-NBA calibre talent rather than an MVP candidate like Harden. Heck if I were Danny I'd drive Tatum (an All-NBA hopeful, last year was weird with multiple MVP and All-NBA talents injured) to the airport immediately if he'd get us Harden, you simply don't get these MVP calibre talents that often without completely gutting your team. I definitely do recognise that Harden and Kemba don't fit together, so I would look for a way to swing Kemba for an All-Star calibre wing or big before making the move. But the value is absolutely there imo.

[jambr380]

Everyone keeps tossing out packages to trade Brown away.

I suggest you all go out and look at Basketball Reference and compare Brown and Leonard.  Last year was Browns 4th season and he was 23.  Leonard also had a 4th season and was 23 at the time.  Brown is a better player at this point of their careers, at the same age and years in the NBA.

I'm hanging with JB (Leonard pt2), you can have Harden.  He'll wreck Tatum's growth!

Kawhi Leonard, a player with unforeseen and unprecedented development under one of the best coaches of all time, is not the normal. Jaylen is much more Jimmy Butler than Kawhi Leonard. Jaylen doesn’t sniff Kawhi defensively at the same stage

Jimmy B was also 2 years older than Brown was during those compared seasons. While I agree Kawhi is an outlier, saying Brown is on the Butler track, but two years ahead is a great outcome.

He might not even be on the Butler track (Butler's development was a huge outlier, not many players improve from 28-30), and even if he was he'd be an All-NBA calibre talent rather than an MVP candidate like Harden. Heck if I were Danny I'd drive Tatum (an All-NBA hopeful, last year was weird with multiple MVP and All-NBA talents injured) to the airport immediately if he'd get us Harden, you simply don't get these MVP calibre talents that often without completely gutting your team. I definitely do recognise that Harden and Kemba don't fit together, so I would look for a way to swing Kemba for an All-Star calibre wing or big before making the move. But the value is absolutely there imo.

I understand that Kemba and Harden aren't necessarily the ideal fit, but it's not a devastating match or anything. Harden has played with two very ball dominant PGs in recent years; I would say Kemba is even better suited than Westbrook or Paul to play off-ball. I get the concerns with our back-court defense, but our offense would be lit.

And besides, I'd probably hold on to Kemba for a while anyway. People talk about his value like he just got his leg amputated. I am very confident he will prove to be a star-level player. If the fit isn't great, then at least he will be movable. I just don't think guys like Tobias Harris or Kevin Love offer what Kemba does.

[RJ87]

Everyone keeps tossing out packages to trade Brown away.

I suggest you all go out and look at Basketball Reference and compare Brown and Leonard.  Last year was Browns 4th season and he was 23.  Leonard also had a 4th season and was 23 at the time.  Brown is a better player at this point of their careers, at the same age and years in the NBA.

I'm hanging with JB (Leonard pt2), you can have Harden.  He'll wreck Tatum's growth!

I'm open to trading JB, but not for Harden. I don't think Harden gets us a championship with what we'd have to give up and I don't think he'd be happy here. It'd only be a matter of time before he starts threatening trade requests like he has in Houston. And no, I don't see him falling on his knees in awe of the banners or kissing Ainge's ring. I think they diva behavior will continue because that's who he is. People give Chris Paul and Russell Westbrook flak but those guys are workers and Hall of Famers and they couldn't make it work with him. You think he's going to be on his best behavior here? It's a pipe dream at best.

[NKY fan]

Tensions rising in Houston. harden throwing balls at rookies is not cool. Looks like his teammates don’t want him in Houston anymore.
I’m worried that Houston will settle for a very low offer from the sixers or Brooklyn and we be taking the wait and see approach the next 3-4 seasons until Kemba is gone.
On the other hand if Harden gets here he will probably get into fights with smart and brown right away unless those two are going out.

[ederson]

Reminds me of J butler caae

[Somebody]

Everyone keeps tossing out packages to trade Brown away.

I suggest you all go out and look at Basketball Reference and compare Brown and Leonard.  Last year was Browns 4th season and he was 23.  Leonard also had a 4th season and was 23 at the time.  Brown is a better player at this point of their careers, at the same age and years in the NBA.

I'm hanging with JB (Leonard pt2), you can have Harden.  He'll wreck Tatum's growth!

Kawhi Leonard, a player with unforeseen and unprecedented development under one of the best coaches of all time, is not the normal. Jaylen is much more Jimmy Butler than Kawhi Leonard. Jaylen doesn’t sniff Kawhi defensively at the same stage

Jimmy B was also 2 years older than Brown was during those compared seasons. While I agree Kawhi is an outlier, saying Brown is on the Butler track, but two years ahead is a great outcome.

He might not even be on the Butler track (Butler's development was a huge outlier, not many players improve from 28-30), and even if he was he'd be an All-NBA calibre talent rather than an MVP candidate like Harden. Heck if I were Danny I'd drive Tatum (an All-NBA hopeful, last year was weird with multiple MVP and All-NBA talents injured) to the airport immediately if he'd get us Harden, you simply don't get these MVP calibre talents that often without completely gutting your team. I definitely do recognise that Harden and Kemba don't fit together, so I would look for a way to swing Kemba for an All-Star calibre wing or big before making the move. But the value is absolutely there imo.

I understand that Kemba and Harden aren't necessarily the ideal fit, but it's not a devastating match or anything. Harden has played with two very ball dominant PGs in recent years; I would say Kemba is even better suited than Westbrook or Paul to play off-ball. I get the concerns with our back-court defense, but our offense would be lit.

And besides, I'd probably hold on to Kemba for a while anyway. People talk about his value like he just got his leg amputated. I am very confident he will prove to be a star-level player. If the fit isn't great, then at least he will be movable. I just don't think guys like Tobias Harris or Kevin Love offer what Kemba does.

I actually love the fit offensively - my main concern is the defence.

[Atzar]

Brown for Harden is an interesting question.

Jaylen is about to be tested IMO.  With Hayward gone and Kemba out, he'll be asked to take on a much greater offensive burden than he's ever had to take before.  To this point, he's been a finisher more than a creator - transition threat, spot-up shooter, secondary slasher.  And he's good at those things, but he has rarely been asked to create offense himself. 

There's a real chance that he fails that test.  Creating efficient offense - whether for himself or others - may just not be in his skillset, and if that's the case, then the Celtics will need to reevaluate him as a very good roleplayer rather than a legitimate second building block star next to Tatum.  Hopefully the Celtics already know internally how it'll go and are able to act accordingly.  Because rising star Jaylen is a guy you keep unless another team offers something stupid, but roleplayer Jaylen might be a guy you look to move while his value still reflects a high ceiling that may or may not actually exist.

How does being unable to carry an offence as a #1 make a player a very good role player rather than a secondary or tertiary star?

Yeah, it’s basically a pre-requisite. Klay, Tony Parker / FMVP Kawhi, Siakam / Lowry, and many more have been championship winning #2s despite not being able to carry an offence to wins as the #1 (at the time)

When did I say anything about Jaylen being a #1?  Tatum is the #1.  I need Jaylen to be a #2.  That was the entire basis of my post:  wondering whether Brown could rise to the occasion as the clear second option on a good team.  I never said that I expect him to be a #1.  But being a #2 rather than a #1 doesn't absolve a player of the need to be able to generate offense.  Tatum can't run the show on every single possession, and Brown will need to help him carry the burden.

Klay is a good counterpoint as a second option who wasn't really required to create.  Being one of the best off-ball offensive players of all-time probably helps, as does playing with a guy like Draymond (which we lack). 

[Phantom255x]

So assuming you can land Harden for something like Brown, Timelord + Picks (no Smart involved; no way in hell I give up BOTH Smart + Brown in any package)

PG: Kemba/Teague/Langford/Pritchard
SG: Harden/Smart/Nesmith
SF: Tatum/Smart/Ojeyele/Nesmith
PF: Theis/GWill/Ojeyele
C: Thompson/GWill/Tacko

That good enough? I don't know how Kemba and Harden can co-exist honestly, and the 3-5 positions still look real thin on depth behind Tatum, Theis and Thompson. If you were to make a Harden trade, would it be possible to acquire someone else too in the package (like PJ Tucker).

And this isn't even factoring in the health questions with Kemba, and Langford.

[Tr1boy]

Report: James Harden has had multiple recent confrontations with teammates
https://www.sportsnet.ca/nba/article/report-james-harden-multiple-recent-confrontations-teammates/

Sounds like he is trying whatever means to get traded out of town.  He threw a basketball at a rookie recently.