Author Topic: Honeymoon Over?  (Read 14330 times)

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Re: Honeymoon Over?
« Reply #75 on: December 14, 2019, 10:34:06 PM »

Offline Somebody

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It's tough for those of us who grew up watching the likes of Ewing, Robinson, McHale, Shaq and Hakeem but it's just not a shot that the analytics geeks encourage these days, with the emphasis on Moreyball and Death Lineups. Unless you're an Embiid of course.

A lot of analytics geeks also say the midrange jumper is a terrible choice, but that isn't stopping half the league from continuing to shoot it often (including our very own Jayson Tatum).

And I think Kanter looked pretty good in the low post the couple of times he got the ball there last night.

It’s not just analytics. It’s also that when hakeem and the rest were playing the rules were different. When a guy caught the ball in the post, you couldn’t have weak side defenders drop down to a help position on the opposite post and wait there for the big. Same thing for guys guarding strong side at the 3-PT line. You had to stay w/in arms length of your man or do a direct hard double-team. Teams saw that and did a *ton* of iso ball because dumping it in to your best player and letting him go 1 on 1 usually gave you a good chance to score.

Now you can basically play zone, with only a few limits. That help makes iso ball a lot harder to pull off, especially if you’re dumping it in down low. Teams want shooters to space the floor and try more ball movement. This is a pretty good explainer.

 http://www.celticshub.com/2017/09/20/celticshub-whiteboard-illegal-defense-shapes-nba/

The elimination of the illegal defense rule was probably the single worst decision the NBA has ever made.  It's totally changed the game, and not for the better (IMO).  The defacto zone defense that teams play today feels super gimmicky and is a far cry from the man-to-man defense players had to play prior to the rule change.
I think it was the best rule change made by the NBA (or at least one of the best). It made cheap ball pounding by isolationists a huge negative and made teams recognise the value of global offence and passing. I just wish that the four great centres of the 90s (Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Shaq) were in their prime after the rule change, I think our perception of the four would change drastically.
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Re: Honeymoon Over?
« Reply #76 on: December 14, 2019, 11:40:53 PM »

Offline colincb

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C'mon, be serious.

We not only have the youngest team with a winning record, but are projected to be tied for the 4th best record in the league at the end of the regular season

I'm not a superfan of Smart like many here are, but we certainly missed his stout defense the last 2 games and the back-to-back scheduling of @IND and MIL was a killer.

This team also has ample opportunity to get better this season.

Re: Honeymoon Over?
« Reply #77 on: December 15, 2019, 12:32:32 AM »

Online tazzmaniac

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It's tough for those of us who grew up watching the likes of Ewing, Robinson, McHale, Shaq and Hakeem but it's just not a shot that the analytics geeks encourage these days, with the emphasis on Moreyball and Death Lineups. Unless you're an Embiid of course.

A lot of analytics geeks also say the midrange jumper is a terrible choice, but that isn't stopping half the league from continuing to shoot it often (including our very own Jayson Tatum).

And I think Kanter looked pretty good in the low post the couple of times he got the ball there last night.

It’s not just analytics. It’s also that when hakeem and the rest were playing the rules were different. When a guy caught the ball in the post, you couldn’t have weak side defenders drop down to a help position on the opposite post and wait there for the big. Same thing for guys guarding strong side at the 3-PT line. You had to stay w/in arms length of your man or do a direct hard double-team. Teams saw that and did a *ton* of iso ball because dumping it in to your best player and letting him go 1 on 1 usually gave you a good chance to score.

Now you can basically play zone, with only a few limits. That help makes iso ball a lot harder to pull off, especially if you’re dumping it in down low. Teams want shooters to space the floor and try more ball movement. This is a pretty good explainer.

 http://www.celticshub.com/2017/09/20/celticshub-whiteboard-illegal-defense-shapes-nba/

The elimination of the illegal defense rule was probably the single worst decision the NBA has ever made.  It's totally changed the game, and not for the better (IMO).  The defacto zone defense that teams play today feels super gimmicky and is a far cry from the man-to-man defense players had to play prior to the rule change.
I think it was the best rule change made by the NBA (or at least one of the best). It made cheap ball pounding by isolationists a huge negative and made teams recognise the value of global offence and passing. I just wish that the four great centres of the 90s (Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Shaq) were in their prime after the rule change, I think our perception of the four would change drastically.
Personally I don't like the modern game.  Too much 3pt chucking.  Rules/ref calls favor the offense too much.  Too soft. 

Hakeem and Robinson would still be great.  Shaq would dominate unless he got wrapped up in all the social media nonsense.  I could see Ewing dropping some in perception.  One thing is for certain if those 4 were playing today, AD would never voluntarily play center.   

Re: Honeymoon Over?
« Reply #78 on: December 15, 2019, 03:22:05 AM »

Offline Somebody

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It's tough for those of us who grew up watching the likes of Ewing, Robinson, McHale, Shaq and Hakeem but it's just not a shot that the analytics geeks encourage these days, with the emphasis on Moreyball and Death Lineups. Unless you're an Embiid of course.

A lot of analytics geeks also say the midrange jumper is a terrible choice, but that isn't stopping half the league from continuing to shoot it often (including our very own Jayson Tatum).

And I think Kanter looked pretty good in the low post the couple of times he got the ball there last night.

It’s not just analytics. It’s also that when hakeem and the rest were playing the rules were different. When a guy caught the ball in the post, you couldn’t have weak side defenders drop down to a help position on the opposite post and wait there for the big. Same thing for guys guarding strong side at the 3-PT line. You had to stay w/in arms length of your man or do a direct hard double-team. Teams saw that and did a *ton* of iso ball because dumping it in to your best player and letting him go 1 on 1 usually gave you a good chance to score.

Now you can basically play zone, with only a few limits. That help makes iso ball a lot harder to pull off, especially if you’re dumping it in down low. Teams want shooters to space the floor and try more ball movement. This is a pretty good explainer.

 http://www.celticshub.com/2017/09/20/celticshub-whiteboard-illegal-defense-shapes-nba/

The elimination of the illegal defense rule was probably the single worst decision the NBA has ever made.  It's totally changed the game, and not for the better (IMO).  The defacto zone defense that teams play today feels super gimmicky and is a far cry from the man-to-man defense players had to play prior to the rule change.
I think it was the best rule change made by the NBA (or at least one of the best). It made cheap ball pounding by isolationists a huge negative and made teams recognise the value of global offence and passing. I just wish that the four great centres of the 90s (Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Shaq) were in their prime after the rule change, I think our perception of the four would change drastically.
Personally I don't like the modern game.  Too much 3pt chucking.  Rules/ref calls favor the offense too much.  Too soft. 

Hakeem and Robinson would still be great.  Shaq would dominate unless he got wrapped up in all the social media nonsense.  I could see Ewing dropping some in perception.  One thing is for certain if those 4 were playing today, AD would never voluntarily play center.
Those are valid criticisms, but it's not the fault of the abolition of the illegal defence rule.

And I was talking about how they'd be compared to each other. Personally I feel that Shaq and Robinson will be the iconic centres of the four, while Hakeem will be the guy just below them and poor Ewing still dead last by a pretty big margin.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: Honeymoon Over?
« Reply #79 on: December 15, 2019, 04:02:12 AM »

Offline LilRip

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It's tough for those of us who grew up watching the likes of Ewing, Robinson, McHale, Shaq and Hakeem but it's just not a shot that the analytics geeks encourage these days, with the emphasis on Moreyball and Death Lineups. Unless you're an Embiid of course.

A lot of analytics geeks also say the midrange jumper is a terrible choice, but that isn't stopping half the league from continuing to shoot it often (including our very own Jayson Tatum).

And I think Kanter looked pretty good in the low post the couple of times he got the ball there last night.

It’s not just analytics. It’s also that when hakeem and the rest were playing the rules were different. When a guy caught the ball in the post, you couldn’t have weak side defenders drop down to a help position on the opposite post and wait there for the big. Same thing for guys guarding strong side at the 3-PT line. You had to stay w/in arms length of your man or do a direct hard double-team. Teams saw that and did a *ton* of iso ball because dumping it in to your best player and letting him go 1 on 1 usually gave you a good chance to score.

Now you can basically play zone, with only a few limits. That help makes iso ball a lot harder to pull off, especially if you’re dumping it in down low. Teams want shooters to space the floor and try more ball movement. This is a pretty good explainer.

 http://www.celticshub.com/2017/09/20/celticshub-whiteboard-illegal-defense-shapes-nba/

The elimination of the illegal defense rule was probably the single worst decision the NBA has ever made.  It's totally changed the game, and not for the better (IMO).  The defacto zone defense that teams play today feels super gimmicky and is a far cry from the man-to-man defense players had to play prior to the rule change.
I think it was the best rule change made by the NBA (or at least one of the best). It made cheap ball pounding by isolationists a huge negative and made teams recognise the value of global offence and passing. I just wish that the four great centres of the 90s (Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Shaq) were in their prime after the rule change, I think our perception of the four would change drastically.
Personally I don't like the modern game.  Too much 3pt chucking.  Rules/ref calls favor the offense too much.  Too soft. 

Hakeem and Robinson would still be great.  Shaq would dominate unless he got wrapped up in all the social media nonsense.  I could see Ewing dropping some in perception.  One thing is for certain if those 4 were playing today, AD would never voluntarily play center.

Unlike you, I don’t mind the 3’s. Yeah, there’s a lot of chucking but there are so many high skill guys now that are pretty accurate from deep.

That said, I do agree with you on the refs. I hate how the rules EXTREMELY favor the offensive player. I love aggressive, physical D. Right now, out on the perimeter, if you’re not quick footed, you’ll likely get burned. If you’re too physical in the post, the guy you’re defending likely goes to the line. It’s bad enough they barely call travel or moving picks.

But there have been some positive rule changes too though imo (which people might not like). I like the new emphasis on protecting shooters. I like the new emphasis on not calling “continuation” on every shot/and1. I like that you don’t have to be stationary to draw a charge.
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Re: Honeymoon Over?
« Reply #80 on: December 15, 2019, 08:44:09 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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It's tough for those of us who grew up watching the likes of Ewing, Robinson, McHale, Shaq and Hakeem but it's just not a shot that the analytics geeks encourage these days, with the emphasis on Moreyball and Death Lineups. Unless you're an Embiid of course.

A lot of analytics geeks also say the midrange jumper is a terrible choice, but that isn't stopping half the league from continuing to shoot it often (including our very own Jayson Tatum).

And I think Kanter looked pretty good in the low post the couple of times he got the ball there last night.

It’s not just analytics. It’s also that when hakeem and the rest were playing the rules were different. When a guy caught the ball in the post, you couldn’t have weak side defenders drop down to a help position on the opposite post and wait there for the big. Same thing for guys guarding strong side at the 3-PT line. You had to stay w/in arms length of your man or do a direct hard double-team. Teams saw that and did a *ton* of iso ball because dumping it in to your best player and letting him go 1 on 1 usually gave you a good chance to score.

Now you can basically play zone, with only a few limits. That help makes iso ball a lot harder to pull off, especially if you’re dumping it in down low. Teams want shooters to space the floor and try more ball movement. This is a pretty good explainer.

 http://www.celticshub.com/2017/09/20/celticshub-whiteboard-illegal-defense-shapes-nba/

The elimination of the illegal defense rule was probably the single worst decision the NBA has ever made.  It's totally changed the game, and not for the better (IMO).  The defacto zone defense that teams play today feels super gimmicky and is a far cry from the man-to-man defense players had to play prior to the rule change.
I think it was the best rule change made by the NBA (or at least one of the best). It made cheap ball pounding by isolationists a huge negative and made teams recognise the value of global offence and passing. I just wish that the four great centres of the 90s (Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Shaq) were in their prime after the rule change, I think our perception of the four would change drastically.

Well, as the saying goes, "one man's garbage is another man's good, un-garbage". It's clearly a matter of personal preference.

Personally, I find today's NBA far inferior and a bit cheap and gimmicky. Add to that the near elimination of the single most beautiful basketball play (the post up) and I absolutely do lament what the NBA has become.

It's not that it's unenjoyable to watch, it's just not as enjoyable. At least not for me.