Y’all have some pretty ****in high standards for *bench* players.
That's what I was thinking reading thru some of the responses here.
If you are referencing my original post there had been talk all season about how the 76ers bench being particularly weak and their roster really top heavy. This isn't a novel take by me. With respect to the Warriors, this has been in discussion all season locally where Iggy has averaged career lows in minutes, points and near career lows in numerous other stats. Livingston is basically in the same boat. Now the discussion has ramped up with cousins out causing their bench to get even weaker.
I also have what may be a bombshell for some of the posters discussing benches from 10-15 years ago. Benches are statistically more important than they have been in last the 40 years because the NBA is being played at the fastest pace it has been since the 1985 season. A guy like Embiid, is absolutely gassed (even when he is in his best shape, which he isn't) if he gets above 33 or 34 minutes. Shaq between his 94-2003 basically never averaged less than 37 minutes in the the playoffs. In the 99-00 finals Shaq's minutes were 44, 46, 47, 47, 47 and 42 in a blowout. Embid last season in a highly competitive series against us 35, 35, 36, 38 and 41 (overtime). Thats 10 more minutes of bench play for the 76ers in the most competitive games (and it is not like shaq was ever known as being the most fit center in the league).
So obviously benches more than ever and this is a valid question to ask this season. Even if people disagree whether our Celtics 2008 bench players were good, average or bad is pretty irrelevant to the current discussion (aside from the 39 point massacre Ray allen averaged about 43 minutes in the champ season finals despite being 32.
So again, do people actually want to try and discuss this or is just too painful?
Yeah I don't get the part where people think benches aren't important... With the increased pace of today's NBA, even the most conditioned athletes can wear and get tired easily. To think otherwise is pretty arrogant, and downright stubborn.
Embiid is someone most people criticize for his lack of conditioning, because he gets gassed way too easily, and their best back up big is who really? Boban?
TP Monk. I was kind of surprised with the level people downplay the bench cause the advanced writers like Lowe that many seem to respect routinely talk about teams bleeding points with specific players off the floor. I guess to be fair it is hard to keep track of stars playing ten minutes less a game in playoff series than they may have 20 years ago and not understanding the difference in bench value. The pace difference is also just insane. In the old days you could rest on defense some, especially as a big. Now if you are not running around closing out on 3's or switching you are giving up points in 5 seconds. It is mind boggling how different the game is.
Boban is actually a decent back-up big though. McConnell is a pretty darn good back-up PG. Scott has been a quality rotational player for years. Simmons started 50 games last year and averaged 14 ppg while doing so. Again a quality back-up. They have Greg Monroe, their top rookie Zhaire Smith, along with rookie Bolden and Ennis (who started 25 games for the Rockets this year) on the deep bench. The Sixers bench is actually pretty good as benches go. Their bench, however, isn't good as starters or playing starter minutes. That is where the top heaviness of the Sixers really comes into play because if a starter goes down (injury, fouls, or ejected) they don't have capable starters on the bench (whereas a team like Boston has plenty of players you would feel ok with as starters). If the Sixers starting 5 can stay healthy and in the game, then their bench is just fine.
Please correct calling Jonathon Simmons a quality backup if you want people to bother discussing your points. He has literally been one of the worst players to play in the entire league the last few seasons. -4.1 OBPM, -.6 DPM, -5.4BMP, -.7VORP. 38% shooting, 27% from 3. Please correct this and we can continue, but right now it is hurting my eyes to see written. Quality backup lol.
He didn't play well in Orlando this season, but he has been pretty darn good in Philly and was much better his prior 3 years, so I would tend to think his time in Orlando to start the season was a bit of a fluke. Maybe he was playing out of position, maybe he wasn't a good fit with his teammates, etc.
So yes, I maintain that Simmons is a quality player as the 8th or 9th person on the bench (clearly he is behind McConnell and Scott, and probably Boban).
Johnathan Simmons was definitely not a good backup in the regular season. Shake Milton, the Sixers 2nd round pick on a 2-way contract, was getting playing time over Simmons. There was even clamoring amongst the fanbase and media on giving Milton a regular contract so he'd be eligible to play in the playoffs even though they'd only be able to give him a 2 year deal instead of a 4 year deal. Simmons is more like a 12th or 13th man.
McConnell is a decent backup PG but he has significant limitations. The biggest of which is you can't play him with Ben Simmons. Boban's defense is not good and is very exploitable. The Sixers bench is one of the worst in the league. It was before the Harris trade but I remember an article about their poor bench assessing whether they'd be better off just holding the ball for 24 second shot clock violations in order to reduce the number of possessions that the bench was on the court for and to eliminate fast break opportunities. I think the answer was that they would be slightly better off.
Tazz thanks for writing this, TP, I thought I was taking crazy pills reading the assessment of the 76ers having a quality bench and describing simmons as a quality bench player. This is pretty common knowledge that the 76ers having a really bad bench and simmons being a bad player. Moranis is this another one of those weird contrarian hills you choose to die on?
Here is a great summary of their bench, including even Brown admitting it is a problem (fairly unusual):
"Philly’s bench is about as deep as a puddle in the desert baking in the California sun.
That bench is made up of Jonah Bolden, James Ennis III, Amir Johnson, Furkan Korkmaz, Boban Marjanovic, Haywood Highsmith, T.J. McConnell, Shake Milton, Greg Monroe, Jonathan Simmons, Zhaire Smith, Mike Scott and Furkan Korkmaz, whose claim to fame is winning the Turkish basketball league’s dunk contest in 2016.
There isn’t a name on that list that most people, even NBA fans, will recognize. Hell, there aren’t too many names on that list hardcore fantasy basketball players — like your humble narrator — will know, either (Free Boban!)
There’s a good reason for that. Going by the player efficiency rating (PER) metric, which measures a player’s per-minute performance adjusting for pace, McConnell, Simmons, Bolden, Ennis III, Johnson, Korkmaz, Highsmith, Milton, Smith, Scott and Korkmaz all have a PER which ranks below the set league average of 15.
The only two bench players who are above average according to the metric, Monroe and Marjanovic, are mainly ranked that way because their floor time has been extremely limited and they’ve only logged 25 games between them.
When recently asked by a reporter if the Sixers’ depth was an issue, head coach Brett Brown’s response was short and sweet: “I think it’s a legitimate question.”
I mean this is not controversial
https://thesixersense.com/2019/03/01/philadelphia-76ers-weak-bench-will-hurt-championship-run/https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/76ers/philadelphia-sixers-starting-5-looks-incredible-tobias-harris-boban-marjanovic-bench-still-needs-upgradedhttps://www.insidehook.com/article/sports/76ers-will-break-the-mold-for-nba-playoff-teamshttps://www.libertyballers.com/2019/1/12/18178901/sixers-must-improve-bench-unit 
Topic: Can you win a championship with horrible bench? (Read 7747 times)