Anyone else have a problem with Hayward at SG

[TheSundanceKid]

 I heard that Hayward actually played more minutes at year at PF than Morris or Crowder. Is this true, and can someone tell me where to find this info. TP for that.

 I know he handles shoots and passes well enough for sure, it's just that he's a big boy now, and he's very tall I see him more as a 3/4 than a 2/3.

 I really think we need Smart or Brown starting in the back court. You guys comfortable with penciling In Hayward at the two.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/crowdja01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/morrima03.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/haywago01.html

Scroll down to Play by Play.

By this method Hayward indeed played a lot more minutes at 4 than either Morris or Crowder.

I don't take these as gospel but I still look at them.

I think that the % here for Morris is deceptive, since he played a lot of minutes with Tobias Harris, whom I guess was allotted the bulk of the PF minutes by Basketball Reference's algorithm or whatever.

Stranger, though, is the % for Hayward. Take a look at the lineups he was in this past season:

http://www.82games.com/1617/16UTA7.HTM

... and tell me that he played 30% of his minutes at PF.  I don't believe it.

That bball reference data is deceiving at best. If you say Ingles and Johnson played shooting guard then maybe, but they didn't, they were the small forward.

Anyway the better thing to ask is how much wing and swing did he play. Pretty much 90% of his minutes come at the wing position which is what Brad considers the 2 and 3.

[OHCeltic]

IT                             Smart
Brown                       Rozier
Hayward                    Crowder
Morris                        Tatum
Horford                      Zizic

[SHAQATTACK]

I d rather get Irving from Cavs after Lebron leaves.

[Boise To Boston]

Smart or Brown need to start at the 2. I would go with Jaylen and let Smart run the 2nd unit.

We need a defender at the 2 with the ability to switch onto Pg's ,  so we can try to hide IT elswhere.

Jaylen said Danny told him to get ready to guard Pg's this year. I think he has the job as our starting SG.

Plus keeping Smart on the bench lowers his stats, and next contract

IT.                 Smart.        Rozier
Jaylen.       Rozier
Hayward.   Tatum.    Jae/Jaylen
Jae.             Morris    Semi/Tatum. Yabu?
Harford.    Baynes.    Zicic

I agree. Hayward CAN play 2, but on our team we need our PG to guard the other team's best guard so we can hide IT4 on the defensive end. Hayward is a good defender, but he's not locking down smaller, quicker, talented  guards. That's got to be Smart, and eventually Jaylen if he continues to improve.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

There is no SG anymore....

They're play on match ups, we do need an other guy in the 6'4"-6'6" range though for the smaller quicker swings.

I mean, Hayward guarding Thompson is fine, throw Brown on KD.  Same with Hayward on Smith JR, and Brown on Lebron.

But I'd rather have Brown on Beal or Wall in the match up against Washington.

 Yes there is still a shooting guard people. Hence why we have a bit of a problem with Bradley gone.

Nope, just smaller Swings. It's Ball handlers, Swings and Bigs. Thats the new system, I know it's hard, but thats what they're going with. It' part of the reason Tatum was drafted, and Morris was brought in. Just about everyone out side a couple players will need to be able to play two to three positions on offense and defense.

1's-IT/Rozier/Smart/Sometimes Hayward
2's Brown/Smart/IT/Rozier/Nader/Tatumn(against bigger two's)
3's Hayward/Brown/Tatum/Crowder/Morris/Smart/SemiNader
4's Horford/Morris/Crowder/Hayward/Baynes/Semi/Yabu/Brown/Tatum/SmartLOL
5's Horford/Zizic/Baynes/

AB was out because of contracts and he can only really play one position on offense. We need an other Ball handler/Swing....

Or Anthony Davis.


 

AD?

tht would sound nice to my ears reminiscent of those Kaaaaaaaaaaaay Geeeeeeeeeeeeeee spots from the PA announcer.

I could deal with

AAAAAAAAAA Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[DooVoo]

You are obsessed with still trying to fit players into traditional roles when that isn't how it works under Stevens.

It is Bigs-Wings-Ball Handlers. Hayward is a wing and will play as a wing. Stop trying to make him a SG or SF in 2017.

[KGs Knee]

All this positionless talk is meaningless.  At the end of the day you are what position you defend.  It doesn't matter what Stevens wants to call his players, and something those that have bought his nonsense fail to recognize.

Someone still has to defend the SG position.  I'm worried we will run into problems defending a lot of the better SG's if Hayward, Crowder, and Morris/Tatum are all sharing the court at the same time.

[TheSundanceKid]

Smart or Brown need to start at the 2. I would go with Jaylen and let Smart run the 2nd unit.

We need a defender at the 2 with the ability to switch onto Pg's ,  so we can try to hide IT elswhere.

Jaylen said Danny told him to get ready to guard Pg's this year. I think he has the job as our starting SG.

Plus keeping Smart on the bench lowers his stats, and next contract

IT.                 Smart.        Rozier
Jaylen.       Rozier
Hayward.   Tatum.    Jae/Jaylen
Jae.             Morris    Semi/Tatum. Yabu?
Harford.    Baynes.    Zicic

I agree. Hayward CAN play 2, but on our team we need our PG to guard the other team's best guard so we can hide IT4 on the defensive end. Hayward is a good defender, but he's not locking down smaller, quicker, talented  guards. That's got to be Smart, and eventually Jaylen if he continues to improve.

At the end of games IT might get hidden as we go for small ball but to start games there is no problem having IT guard the point. Half the reason IT didn't guard the point was because of Bradleys prowess there. If Smart started at sg I still think IT would guard the point

[greece66]

I'll go with saltlover here.

It will be a problem yes, but only for our opponents. Not many SGs are able to keep up with Hayward.

Defence is another story, and I don't think Hayward will necessarily guard the opponents' SG.

[ThePaintedArea]

 Well that's good. Except what's up with it saying 51% SF,  25% SG and 0% PF where is the other 34%?

If you're looking at 82Games data, the %s are of the total team minutes that the player was on the floor at that position - so they would add up to 100% only if the player played 48 minutes a night plus overtime.

[droopdog7]

Well, since we don't have a starting caliber shooting guard in the roster, I pretty much hope that it's Hayward.  So no, not concerned at all.

[ThePaintedArea]

 I heard that Hayward actually played more minutes at year at PF than Morris or Crowder. Is this true, and can someone tell me where to find this info. TP for that.

 I know he handles shoots and passes well enough for sure, it's just that he's a big boy now, and he's very tall I see him more as a 3/4 than a 2/3.

 I really think we need Smart or Brown starting in the back court. You guys comfortable with penciling In Hayward at the two.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/crowdja01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/morrima03.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/haywago01.html

Scroll down to Play by Play.

By this method Hayward indeed played a lot more minutes at 4 than either Morris or Crowder.

I don't take these as gospel but I still look at them.

I think that the % here for Morris is deceptive, since he played a lot of minutes with Tobias Harris, whom I guess was allotted the bulk of the PF minutes by Basketball Reference's algorithm or whatever.

Stranger, though, is the % for Hayward. Take a look at the lineups he was in this past season:

http://www.82games.com/1617/16UTA7.HTM

... and tell me that he played 30% of his minutes at PF.  I don't believe it.

That bball reference data is deceiving at best. If you say Ingles and Johnson played shooting guard then maybe, but they didn't, they were the small forward.

Point taken. On the other hand, of course, during actual games guys nowadays spend a lot more time than they used to guarding more than one player.

We've entered the era of "positionless basketball" where lots of switching takes place and teams are better defensively when they've got guys who can do that.  There's a premium on long versatile players - Hayward, for instance, has a long wingspan, and while you don't want to give him a steady diet of Draymonds, he has some ability to deal with bigger players.

I don't know how bballref comes up with its numbers, but I wouldn't dismiss them out of hand.

Anyway the better thing to ask is how much wing and swing did he play. Pretty much 90% of his minutes come at the wing position which is what Brad considers the 2 and 3.

I'm not sure that Brad is being consistent with all this... he seems to have said recently that he's seeing only three positions now: bigs/wings/ballhandlers. So is a swing just a wing who has some size (like Tatum!)?

But if your lineup is Horford/Hayward/Crowder/Brown/Thomas or something, there's a problem with defensive rebounding that's probably a level worse than last year's poor performance.  Switching onto 4's (or whatever we call them) is fine for Hayward, but he's not a good choice as a swing. I think Crowder has a size issue as a swing, by the way.