Anyone else have a problem with Hayward at SG

[KG Living Legend]

 I heard that Hayward actually played more minutes at year at PF than Morris or Crowder. Is this true, and can someone tell me where to find this info. TP for that.

 I know he handles shoots and passes well enough for sure, it's just that he's a big boy now, and he's very tall I see him more as a 3/4 than a 2/3.

 I really think we need Smart or Brown starting in the back court. You guys comfortable with penciling In Hayward at the two.

[TheSundanceKid]

I'm pretty sure that last year Hayward spent more time at SG than SF,with Joe Johnson on the roster. Can't recall where I read this though.

I have no problem with him playing SG though. Brown should still be coming off the bench, as should Smart

[rondohondo]

Smart or Brown need to start at the 2. I would go with Jaylen and let Smart run the 2nd unit.

We need a defender at the 2 with the ability to switch onto Pg's ,  so we can try to hide IT elswhere.

Jaylen said Danny told him to get ready to guard Pg's this year. I think he has the job as our starting SG.

Plus keeping Smart on the bench lowers his stats, and next contract

IT.                 Smart.        Rozier
Jaylen.       Rozier
Hayward.   Tatum.    Jae/Jaylen
Jae.             Morris    Semi/Tatum. Yabu?
Harford.    Baynes.    Zicic

[KG Living Legend]

I'm pretty sure that last year Hayward spent more time at SG than SF,with Joe Johnson on the roster. Can't recall where I read this though.

I have no problem with him playing SG though. Brown should still be coming off the bench, as should Smart

 I disagree with this. Someone post the numbers so we can get to the bottom of this.

[Sketch5]

There is no SG anymore....

They're play on match ups, we do need an other guy in the 6'4"-6'6" range though for the smaller quicker swings.

I mean, Hayward guarding Thompson is fine, throw Brown on KD.  Same with Hayward on Smith JR, and Brown on Lebron.

But I'd rather have Brown on Beal or Wall in the match up against Washington.

[KG Living Legend]

There is no SG anymore....

They're play on match ups, we do need an other guy in the 6'4"-6'6" range though for the smaller quicker swings.

I mean, Hayward guarding Thompson is fine, throw Brown on KD.  Same with Hayward on Smith JR, and Brown on Lebron.

But I'd rather have Brown on Beal or Wall in the match up against Washington.

 Yes there is still a shooting guard people. Hence why we have a bit of a problem with Bradley gone.

[ThePaintedArea]

 I heard that Hayward actually played more minutes at year at PF than Morris or Crowder. Is this true, and can someone tell me where to find this info. TP for that.

 I know he handles shoots and passes well enough for sure, it's just that he's a big boy now, and he's very tall I see him more as a 3/4 than a 2/3.

 I really think we need Smart or Brown starting in the back court. You guys comfortable with penciling In Hayward at the two.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/crowdja01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/morrima03.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/haywago01.html

Scroll down to Play by Play.

By this method Hayward indeed played a lot more minutes at 4 than either Morris or Crowder.

I don't take these as gospel but I still look at them.

I think that the % here for Morris is deceptive, since he played a lot of minutes with Tobias Harris, whom I guess was allotted the bulk of the PF minutes by Basketball Reference's algorithm or whatever.

Stranger, though, is the % for Hayward. Take a look at the lineups he was in this past season:

http://www.82games.com/1617/16UTA7.HTM

... and tell me that he played 30% of his minutes at PF.  I don't believe it.

[saltlover]

There is no SG anymore....

They're play on match ups, we do need an other guy in the 6'4"-6'6" range though for the smaller quicker swings.

I mean, Hayward guarding Thompson is fine, throw Brown on KD.  Same with Hayward on Smith JR, and Brown on Lebron.

But I'd rather have Brown on Beal or Wall in the match up against Washington.

 Yes there is still a shooting guard people. Hence why we have a bit of a problem with Bradley gone.

It's not a requisite position.  Hayward offensively will play the role of a secondary ball handler when IT is on the court, and primary ball handler when he's off, as some SG do, as well as what some SFs do.  On defense he will guard the two when he's in such a lineup that you discuss.

It's more a problem for opponents, because most SG wont be able to keep up with him on offense, and they'll get bullied by Jae if they go for that matchup instead.

[Sketch5]

There is no SG anymore....

They're play on match ups, we do need an other guy in the 6'4"-6'6" range though for the smaller quicker swings.

I mean, Hayward guarding Thompson is fine, throw Brown on KD.  Same with Hayward on Smith JR, and Brown on Lebron.

But I'd rather have Brown on Beal or Wall in the match up against Washington.

 Yes there is still a shooting guard people. Hence why we have a bit of a problem with Bradley gone.

Nope, just smaller Swings. It's Ball handlers, Swings and Bigs. Thats the new system, I know it's hard, but thats what they're going with. It' part of the reason Tatum was drafted, and Morris was brought in. Just about everyone out side a couple players will need to be able to play two to three positions on offense and defense.

1's-IT/Rozier/Smart/Sometimes Hayward
2's Brown/Smart/IT/Rozier/Nader/Tatumn(against bigger two's)
3's Hayward/Brown/Tatum/Crowder/Morris/Smart/SemiNader
4's Horford/Morris/Crowder/Hayward/Baynes/Semi/Yabu/Brown/Tatum/SmartLOL
5's Horford/Zizic/Baynes/

AB was out because of contracts and he can only really play one position on offense. We need an other Ball handler/Swing....

Or Anthony Davis.


 

[mmmmm]

 I heard that Hayward actually played more minutes at year at PF than Morris or Crowder. Is this true, and can someone tell me where to find this info. TP for that.

 I know he handles shoots and passes well enough for sure, it's just that he's a big boy now, and he's very tall I see him more as a 3/4 than a 2/3.

 I really think we need Smart or Brown starting in the back court. You guys comfortable with penciling In Hayward at the two.

Per 82games.com, Hayward split his time pretty much 50/50 between SF and SG last year.

http://www.82games.com/1617/16UTA7.HTM#bypos

(note:  the 31%/31% refer to the percentage of team minutes he played at that position.   Which means he totaled about 62% of the team minutes, spending half at each position).

With either of the two Joes (Ingles & Johnson) on the floor a lot with him, Hayward typically played SG as he's quicker laterally than either and handled the ball more.

[mmmmm]

 I heard that Hayward actually played more minutes at year at PF than Morris or Crowder. Is this true, and can someone tell me where to find this info. TP for that.

 I know he handles shoots and passes well enough for sure, it's just that he's a big boy now, and he's very tall I see him more as a 3/4 than a 2/3.

 I really think we need Smart or Brown starting in the back court. You guys comfortable with penciling In Hayward at the two.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/crowdja01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/morrima03.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/haywago01.html

Scroll down to Play by Play.

By this method Hayward indeed played a lot more minutes at 4 than either Morris or Crowder.

I don't take these as gospel but I still look at them.

I think that the % here for Morris is deceptive, since he played a lot of minutes with Tobias Harris, whom I guess was allotted the bulk of the PF minutes by Basketball Reference's algorithm or whatever.

Stranger, though, is the % for Hayward. Take a look at the lineups he was in this past season:

http://www.82games.com/1617/16UTA7.HTM

... and tell me that he played 30% of his minutes at PF.  I don't believe it.

I don't buy the basketball-reference.com Play-by-Play data at all.   It seems completely at odds with both what I remember watching and with other sites.

I read a comment somewhere on some blog where it was being discussed and someone hypothesized that the bb-ref's play-by-play positional estimates are based on play-by-play log substitutions -- i.e., which player they officially substituted in for which.  And we know that is often completely un-related to what position they actually will play.

I find that the 82games.com positional estimates are usually pretty close to what I have tracked and I think they correlated well in the past with Partnow's positional defense estimates using SportsVU data.

[KG Living Legend]

 Well that's good. Except what's up with it saying 51% SF,  25% SG and 0% PF where is the other 34%?

 Looking forward to seeing Hayward play, we were a little spoiled with Bradley and his quickness, but Hayward has a big size advantage, can't be wait to see how Hayward guards.

[mmmmm]

There is no SG anymore....

They're play on match ups, we do need an other guy in the 6'4"-6'6" range though for the smaller quicker swings.

I mean, Hayward guarding Thompson is fine, throw Brown on KD.  Same with Hayward on Smith JR, and Brown on Lebron.

But I'd rather have Brown on Beal or Wall in the match up against Washington.

 Yes there is still a shooting guard people. Hence why we have a bit of a problem with Bradley gone.

It's not a requisite position.  Hayward offensively will play the role of a secondary ball handler when IT is on the court, and primary ball handler when he's off, as some SG do, as well as what some SFs do.  On defense he will guard the two when he's in such a lineup that you discuss.

It's more a problem for opponents, because most SG wont be able to keep up with him on offense, and they'll get bullied by Jae if they go for that matchup instead.

Yeah, I believe that Brad's current parlance calls out for three roles:

Ball Handler
Wing
Big

and these are not exclusive.  A given wing may also at times be a ball-handler (if he has the skill) and if he has the size, may be a big.

I think of Hayward as a ball-handling wing.

Numeric assignments 1-5 still make sense when thinking of size match ups on defense.   And I concur that Hayward will often guard the 2.    Hayward may be tall, but he is actually very quick with his feet, with excellent lateral footwork (he used to be one of the top prep tennis players in Indiana).   He's not Avery Bradley, but he definitely more than holds his own when guarding most 2s.

[Donoghus]

It's becoming much more of a positionless game (especially on the offensive end) so I really don't have a problem with where he starts.   And you just need him to be serviceable on the defensive end, whether he's guarding 2's or 3's.

[mmmmm]

 Well that's good. Except what's up with it saying 51% SF,  25% SG and 0% PF where is the other 34%?

'Not sure which data you are looking at there.