Butler Trade to Boston Proposed by ESPN's Insider Kevin Pelton

[Eddie20]

Just to be clear, this is not a trade rumor, just one that he said works for both teams. Personally I am not a fan of giving up 2018 Nets pick for Butler.

Wait, what?

We get to Keep the 2017 pick (high pick in a deep draft), Brown, and Smart? That 2018 pick is not guaranteed like this years. They might be the worst team this year but look at Philly this year after getting the worst record in 15-16.  I don't think it can get much worse for Brooklyn.

I doubt Chicago does this deal anyway so it doesn't matter.

The Nets' 2018 season looks just as dismal.  Unlikely to get a big FA signing given the new CBA.  In addition, the top end of the draft in 2018 fits better for our long term needs than the 2017 draft. It has several incredible bigs who are lacking in this draft.  I do not give up that asset easily, certainly not for a Jimmy Butler.  Seems like most others disagree with me, though.

What if New Orleans trades Holiday and its 1st for Brook Lopez (just as an example)?  That 1st might end up pretty good and Holiday could easily re-sign in Brooklyn.  What if the Nets then overpay for someone like Noel in free agency and continue to get growth from their younger players.  Sure the Nets won't make the playoffs in that scenario, but could certainly be better than the worst team in basketball. 

Continue to get growth? From whom, exactly?

RHJ, LaVert, McCullough, Whitehead.  Not world beaters, but all with potential to at least be rotational players on a good team.  Add a guy like Jrue Holiday and a defensive anchor in Nerlens Noel, plus the rookie from N.O.'s 1st (remember we are talking about them trading Lopez for Holiday and a 1st), and they would certainly be a much improved team from this year.  Not a playoff team, but certainly might not be even a bottom 3 or 5 team.

I'm going to call you out on this...

McCullough has played 13 games all season and is averaging 2.7 PPG this season, which is down from his career high 4.7 PPG last season.

Hollis-Jefferson biggest issue out of college was his shot and the hitch he has in it. So this season his FG% is down to 41.7% and there has been no improvement anywhere. Same guy as last season.

Whitehead is absolutely horrible. He's simply not an NBA player. He can't shoot, has no playmaking skills, and is not an above average defender. He's just young, has good size, and happens to be on the worse team in the league.

LeVert is not a good player either and has an extensive injury history.

So are these the guys that you've see growth in? Can you explain where? So you hate Rozier, but have seen growth in these guys?

They could sign Holiday and Noel and they would STILL be the worst team in the league.Bottom 7 teams this season are the Nets, Suns, Lakers, Sixers, Magic, Pelicans, and Wolves. Which are the "3 to 5" teams you could see them being better than?

[Moranis]

Just to be clear, this is not a trade rumor, just one that he said works for both teams. Personally I am not a fan of giving up 2018 Nets pick for Butler.

Wait, what?

We get to Keep the 2017 pick (high pick in a deep draft), Brown, and Smart? That 2018 pick is not guaranteed like this years. They might be the worst team this year but look at Philly this year after getting the worst record in 15-16.  I don't think it can get much worse for Brooklyn.

I doubt Chicago does this deal anyway so it doesn't matter.

The Nets' 2018 season looks just as dismal.  Unlikely to get a big FA signing given the new CBA.  In addition, the top end of the draft in 2018 fits better for our long term needs than the 2017 draft. It has several incredible bigs who are lacking in this draft.  I do not give up that asset easily, certainly not for a Jimmy Butler.  Seems like most others disagree with me, though.

What if New Orleans trades Holiday and its 1st for Brook Lopez (just as an example)?  That 1st might end up pretty good and Holiday could easily re-sign in Brooklyn.  What if the Nets then overpay for someone like Noel in free agency and continue to get growth from their younger players.  Sure the Nets won't make the playoffs in that scenario, but could certainly be better than the worst team in basketball. 

Continue to get growth? From whom, exactly?

RHJ, LaVert, McCullough, Whitehead.  Not world beaters, but all with potential to at least be rotational players on a good team.  Add a guy like Jrue Holiday and a defensive anchor in Nerlens Noel, plus the rookie from N.O.'s 1st (remember we are talking about them trading Lopez for Holiday and a 1st), and they would certainly be a much improved team from this year.  Not a playoff team, but certainly might not be even a bottom 3 or 5 team.

I'm going to call you out on this...

McCullough has played 13 games all season and is averaging 2.7 PPG this season, which is down from his career high 4.7 PPG last season.

Hollis-Jefferson biggest issue out of college was his shot and the hitch he has in it. So this season his FG% is down to 41.7% and there has been no improvement anywhere. Same guy as last season.

Whitehead is absolutely horrible. He's simply not an NBA player. He can't shoot, has no playmaking skills, and is not an above average defender. He's just young, has good size, and happens to be on the worse team in the league.

LeVert is not a good player either and has an extensive injury history.

So are these the guys that you've see growth in? Can you explain where? So you hate Rozier, but have seen growth in these guys?

They could sign Holiday and Noel and they would STILL be the worst team in the league.Bottom 7 teams this season are the Nets, Suns, Lakers, Sixers, Magic, Pelicans, and Wolves. Which are the "3 to 5" teams you could see them being better than?

young players, especially ones that have been injured, do actually get better, especially when they get healthy.  I don't think that is a foreign concept. 

[Eddie20]

Just to be clear, this is not a trade rumor, just one that he said works for both teams. Personally I am not a fan of giving up 2018 Nets pick for Butler.

Wait, what?

We get to Keep the 2017 pick (high pick in a deep draft), Brown, and Smart? That 2018 pick is not guaranteed like this years. They might be the worst team this year but look at Philly this year after getting the worst record in 15-16.  I don't think it can get much worse for Brooklyn.

I doubt Chicago does this deal anyway so it doesn't matter.

The Nets' 2018 season looks just as dismal.  Unlikely to get a big FA signing given the new CBA.  In addition, the top end of the draft in 2018 fits better for our long term needs than the 2017 draft. It has several incredible bigs who are lacking in this draft.  I do not give up that asset easily, certainly not for a Jimmy Butler.  Seems like most others disagree with me, though.

What if New Orleans trades Holiday and its 1st for Brook Lopez (just as an example)?  That 1st might end up pretty good and Holiday could easily re-sign in Brooklyn.  What if the Nets then overpay for someone like Noel in free agency and continue to get growth from their younger players.  Sure the Nets won't make the playoffs in that scenario, but could certainly be better than the worst team in basketball. 

Continue to get growth? From whom, exactly?

RHJ, LaVert, McCullough, Whitehead.  Not world beaters, but all with potential to at least be rotational players on a good team.  Add a guy like Jrue Holiday and a defensive anchor in Nerlens Noel, plus the rookie from N.O.'s 1st (remember we are talking about them trading Lopez for Holiday and a 1st), and they would certainly be a much improved team from this year.  Not a playoff team, but certainly might not be even a bottom 3 or 5 team.

I'm going to call you out on this...

McCullough has played 13 games all season and is averaging 2.7 PPG this season, which is down from his career high 4.7 PPG last season.

Hollis-Jefferson biggest issue out of college was his shot and the hitch he has in it. So this season his FG% is down to 41.7% and there has been no improvement anywhere. Same guy as last season.

Whitehead is absolutely horrible. He's simply not an NBA player. He can't shoot, has no playmaking skills, and is not an above average defender. He's just young, has good size, and happens to be on the worse team in the league.

LeVert is not a good player either and has an extensive injury history.

So are these the guys that you've see growth in? Can you explain where? So you hate Rozier, but have seen growth in these guys?

They could sign Holiday and Noel and they would STILL be the worst team in the league.Bottom 7 teams this season are the Nets, Suns, Lakers, Sixers, Magic, Pelicans, and Wolves. Which are the "3 to 5" teams you could see them being better than?

young players, especially ones that have been injured, do actually get better, especially when they get healthy.  I don't think that is a foreign concept.

So Levert that's the guy you're resting hopes with? He's missed half of his last 2 college seasons and is injured now. Kind of a stretch, no? And the bigger issue is he's not that good.

[Witch-King]

Wouldn't the Bulls want to keep Butler and Wade and make a push for Westbrook next season (or this one, but probably not)?? Truth is that the Thunder kind of just watched Westbrook in awe this season instead of making moves to surround him with more talent and if he gets disgruntled after this season then Chicago looks like one of the best possible destinations, a big market team with money to spend and upside. New York and the Lakers don't make sense because Westbrook would make just as much money staying in OKC and carrying the Thunder, already a playoff team, than trying to turn the Lakers or Knicks into his current team or better. It would take too much work to leave OKC and everything/one he's come to know and like to go to another team unless that team was good enough to do serious damage in the playoffs so New York or the Lakers would be a step in the wrong direction. If I were a Bulls fan the last thing I would want is for the team to trade away their best player, they're still a playoff team. I'd be praying that Westbrook would come and take us to the promised land.

[Boris Badenov]

Just to be clear, this is not a trade rumor, just one that he said works for both teams. Personally I am not a fan of giving up 2018 Nets pick for Butler.

Wait, what?

We get to Keep the 2017 pick (high pick in a deep draft), Brown, and Smart? That 2018 pick is not guaranteed like this years. They might be the worst team this year but look at Philly this year after getting the worst record in 15-16.  I don't think it can get much worse for Brooklyn.

I doubt Chicago does this deal anyway so it doesn't matter.

The Nets' 2018 season looks just as dismal.  Unlikely to get a big FA signing given the new CBA.  In addition, the top end of the draft in 2018 fits better for our long term needs than the 2017 draft. It has several incredible bigs who are lacking in this draft.  I do not give up that asset easily, certainly not for a Jimmy Butler.  Seems like most others disagree with me, though.

What if New Orleans trades Holiday and its 1st for Brook Lopez (just as an example)?  That 1st might end up pretty good and Holiday could easily re-sign in Brooklyn.  What if the Nets then overpay for someone like Noel in free agency and continue to get growth from their younger players.  Sure the Nets won't make the playoffs in that scenario, but could certainly be better than the worst team in basketball. 

Continue to get growth? From whom, exactly?

RHJ, LaVert, McCullough, Whitehead.  Not world beaters, but all with potential to at least be rotational players on a good team.  Add a guy like Jrue Holiday and a defensive anchor in Nerlens Noel, plus the rookie from N.O.'s 1st (remember we are talking about them trading Lopez for Holiday and a 1st), and they would certainly be a much improved team from this year.  Not a playoff team, but certainly might not be even a bottom 3 or 5 team.

I'm going to call you out on this...

McCullough has played 13 games all season and is averaging 2.7 PPG this season, which is down from his career high 4.7 PPG last season.

Hollis-Jefferson biggest issue out of college was his shot and the hitch he has in it. So this season his FG% is down to 41.7% and there has been no improvement anywhere. Same guy as last season.

Whitehead is absolutely horrible. He's simply not an NBA player. He can't shoot, has no playmaking skills, and is not an above average defender. He's just young, has good size, and happens to be on the worse team in the league.

LeVert is not a good player either and has an extensive injury history.

So are these the guys that you've see growth in? Can you explain where? So you hate Rozier, but have seen growth in these guys?

They could sign Holiday and Noel and they would STILL be the worst team in the league.Bottom 7 teams this season are the Nets, Suns, Lakers, Sixers, Magic, Pelicans, and Wolves. Which are the "3 to 5" teams you could see them being better than?

young players, especially ones that have been injured, do actually get better, especially when they get healthy.  I don't think that is a foreign concept.

You're absolutely right, though you surely could have left out the snark and made your point better.

But even there you are seemingly ignoring the fact that for the Nets to improve relative to everyone else, their young guys have to improve faster and end up better than young guys on other teams in the bottom 5.

So essentially you're stacking up Levert, RHJ, Whitehead, McCullough against:

Simmons/Embiid/Saric/Holmes/top 5 pick (or two)
Ingram/Russell/Clarkson/Zubac/Randle/top 3 pick (possibly)
Bender/Chriss/Warren/Booker/top 5 pick
KAT/Wiggins/Lavine/Dunn/top 7 pick

In terms of talent currently on the rosters, it's absurd to think BKN's young guys will help them more than these other guys will help their teams next year. I can't think of any team in the bottom 10 that would trade its young players for BKN's. So why would we expect BKN to get out of the bottom 3-5?

And then you have the added effect that BKN will suffer relative to any of those teams because they have no lottery picks for for the next two years. They can trade their best player for a decent pick, sure - but all of these other teams have other assets too, many of which are more valuable than Brook Lopez.

[Moranis]

Just to be clear, this is not a trade rumor, just one that he said works for both teams. Personally I am not a fan of giving up 2018 Nets pick for Butler.

Wait, what?

We get to Keep the 2017 pick (high pick in a deep draft), Brown, and Smart? That 2018 pick is not guaranteed like this years. They might be the worst team this year but look at Philly this year after getting the worst record in 15-16.  I don't think it can get much worse for Brooklyn.

I doubt Chicago does this deal anyway so it doesn't matter.

The Nets' 2018 season looks just as dismal.  Unlikely to get a big FA signing given the new CBA.  In addition, the top end of the draft in 2018 fits better for our long term needs than the 2017 draft. It has several incredible bigs who are lacking in this draft.  I do not give up that asset easily, certainly not for a Jimmy Butler.  Seems like most others disagree with me, though.

What if New Orleans trades Holiday and its 1st for Brook Lopez (just as an example)?  That 1st might end up pretty good and Holiday could easily re-sign in Brooklyn.  What if the Nets then overpay for someone like Noel in free agency and continue to get growth from their younger players.  Sure the Nets won't make the playoffs in that scenario, but could certainly be better than the worst team in basketball. 

Continue to get growth? From whom, exactly?

RHJ, LaVert, McCullough, Whitehead.  Not world beaters, but all with potential to at least be rotational players on a good team.  Add a guy like Jrue Holiday and a defensive anchor in Nerlens Noel, plus the rookie from N.O.'s 1st (remember we are talking about them trading Lopez for Holiday and a 1st), and they would certainly be a much improved team from this year.  Not a playoff team, but certainly might not be even a bottom 3 or 5 team.

I'm going to call you out on this...

McCullough has played 13 games all season and is averaging 2.7 PPG this season, which is down from his career high 4.7 PPG last season.

Hollis-Jefferson biggest issue out of college was his shot and the hitch he has in it. So this season his FG% is down to 41.7% and there has been no improvement anywhere. Same guy as last season.

Whitehead is absolutely horrible. He's simply not an NBA player. He can't shoot, has no playmaking skills, and is not an above average defender. He's just young, has good size, and happens to be on the worse team in the league.

LeVert is not a good player either and has an extensive injury history.

So are these the guys that you've see growth in? Can you explain where? So you hate Rozier, but have seen growth in these guys?

They could sign Holiday and Noel and they would STILL be the worst team in the league.Bottom 7 teams this season are the Nets, Suns, Lakers, Sixers, Magic, Pelicans, and Wolves. Which are the "3 to 5" teams you could see them being better than?

young players, especially ones that have been injured, do actually get better, especially when they get healthy.  I don't think that is a foreign concept.

You're absolutely right, though you surely could have left out the snark and made your point better.

But even there you are seemingly ignoring the fact that for the Nets to improve relative to everyone else, their young guys have to improve faster and end up better than young guys on other teams in the bottom 5.

So essentially you're stacking up Levert, RHJ, Whitehead, McCullough against:

Simmons/Embiid/Saric/Holmes/top 5 pick (or two)
Ingram/Russell/Clarkson/Zubac/Randle/top 3 pick (possibly)
Bender/Chriss/Warren/Booker/top 5 pick
KAT/Wiggins/Lavine/Dunn/top 7 pick

In terms of talent currently on the rosters, it's absurd to think BKN's young guys will help them more than these other guys will help their teams next year. I can't think of any team in the bottom 10 that would trade its young players for BKN's. So why would we expect BKN to get out of the bottom 3-5?

And then you have the added effect that BKN will suffer relative to any of those teams because they have no lottery picks for for the next two years. They can trade their best player for a decent pick, sure - but all of these other teams have other assets too, many of which are more valuable than Brook Lopez.

I just don't think it is a given that Brooklyn is the worst team in the league next year.  With a couple of solid moves, they certainly could see pretty solid improvement.  That is the point I was making.  I certainly am not claiming the Nets have a bright future or will make the playoffs or anything, merely that there is no guarantee they will be in line for the most ping pong balls in the 2018 draft. 

[Darío SpanishFan]

RHJ, LaVert, McCullough, Whitehead.  Not world beaters, but all with potential to at least be rotational players on a good team.  Add a guy like Jrue Holiday and a defensive anchor in Nerlens Noel, plus the rookie from N.O.'s 1st (remember we are talking about them trading Lopez for Holiday and a 1st), and they would certainly be a much improved team from this year.  Not a playoff team, but certainly might not be even a bottom 3 or 5 team.

These are not "rotational players on a good team". If they were with us, you'd consider them busts (which they are close to, at this stage". And they would play as much as Mickey and D-Jax.

[Boris Badenov]

Just to be clear, this is not a trade rumor, just one that he said works for both teams. Personally I am not a fan of giving up 2018 Nets pick for Butler.

Wait, what?

We get to Keep the 2017 pick (high pick in a deep draft), Brown, and Smart? That 2018 pick is not guaranteed like this years. They might be the worst team this year but look at Philly this year after getting the worst record in 15-16.  I don't think it can get much worse for Brooklyn.

I doubt Chicago does this deal anyway so it doesn't matter.

The Nets' 2018 season looks just as dismal.  Unlikely to get a big FA signing given the new CBA.  In addition, the top end of the draft in 2018 fits better for our long term needs than the 2017 draft. It has several incredible bigs who are lacking in this draft.  I do not give up that asset easily, certainly not for a Jimmy Butler.  Seems like most others disagree with me, though.

What if New Orleans trades Holiday and its 1st for Brook Lopez (just as an example)?  That 1st might end up pretty good and Holiday could easily re-sign in Brooklyn.  What if the Nets then overpay for someone like Noel in free agency and continue to get growth from their younger players.  Sure the Nets won't make the playoffs in that scenario, but could certainly be better than the worst team in basketball. 

Continue to get growth? From whom, exactly?

RHJ, LaVert, McCullough, Whitehead.  Not world beaters, but all with potential to at least be rotational players on a good team.  Add a guy like Jrue Holiday and a defensive anchor in Nerlens Noel, plus the rookie from N.O.'s 1st (remember we are talking about them trading Lopez for Holiday and a 1st), and they would certainly be a much improved team from this year.  Not a playoff team, but certainly might not be even a bottom 3 or 5 team.

I'm going to call you out on this...

McCullough has played 13 games all season and is averaging 2.7 PPG this season, which is down from his career high 4.7 PPG last season.

Hollis-Jefferson biggest issue out of college was his shot and the hitch he has in it. So this season his FG% is down to 41.7% and there has been no improvement anywhere. Same guy as last season.

Whitehead is absolutely horrible. He's simply not an NBA player. He can't shoot, has no playmaking skills, and is not an above average defender. He's just young, has good size, and happens to be on the worse team in the league.

LeVert is not a good player either and has an extensive injury history.

So are these the guys that you've see growth in? Can you explain where? So you hate Rozier, but have seen growth in these guys?

They could sign Holiday and Noel and they would STILL be the worst team in the league.Bottom 7 teams this season are the Nets, Suns, Lakers, Sixers, Magic, Pelicans, and Wolves. Which are the "3 to 5" teams you could see them being better than?

young players, especially ones that have been injured, do actually get better, especially when they get healthy.  I don't think that is a foreign concept.

You're absolutely right, though you surely could have left out the snark and made your point better.

But even there you are seemingly ignoring the fact that for the Nets to improve relative to everyone else, their young guys have to improve faster and end up better than young guys on other teams in the bottom 5.

So essentially you're stacking up Levert, RHJ, Whitehead, McCullough against:

Simmons/Embiid/Saric/Holmes/top 5 pick (or two)
Ingram/Russell/Clarkson/Zubac/Randle/top 3 pick (possibly)
Bender/Chriss/Warren/Booker/top 5 pick
KAT/Wiggins/Lavine/Dunn/top 7 pick

In terms of talent currently on the rosters, it's absurd to think BKN's young guys will help them more than these other guys will help their teams next year. I can't think of any team in the bottom 10 that would trade its young players for BKN's. So why would we expect BKN to get out of the bottom 3-5?

And then you have the added effect that BKN will suffer relative to any of those teams because they have no lottery picks for for the next two years. They can trade their best player for a decent pick, sure - but all of these other teams have other assets too, many of which are more valuable than Brook Lopez.

I just don't think it is a given that Brooklyn is the worst team in the league next year.  With a couple of solid moves, they certainly could see pretty solid improvement.  That is the point I was making.  I certainly am not claiming the Nets have a bright future or will make the playoffs or anything, merely that there is no guarantee they will be in line for the most ping pong balls in the 2018 draft.

That's true. I honestly don't know why they haven't made more effort to (or had more success to) sign FAs. They have the room, and the city is a good draw.

But never underestimate the power of bad management. Any team putting Jeremy Lin on its "untouchable" list has some major front office problems.

[jambr380]

Wouldn't the Bulls want to keep Butler and Wade and make a push for Westbrook next season (or this one, but probably not)?? Truth is that the Thunder kind of just watched Westbrook in awe this season instead of making moves to surround him with more talent and if he gets disgruntled after this season then Chicago looks like one of the best possible destinations, a big market team with money to spend and upside. New York and the Lakers don't make sense because Westbrook would make just as much money staying in OKC and carrying the Thunder, already a playoff team, than trying to turn the Lakers or Knicks into his current team or better. It would take too much work to leave OKC and everything/one he's come to know and like to go to another team unless that team was good enough to do serious damage in the playoffs so New York or the Lakers would be a step in the wrong direction. If I were a Bulls fan the last thing I would want is for the team to trade away their best player, they're still a playoff team. I'd be praying that Westbrook would come and take us to the promised land.

Westbrook has already committed to the Thunder for years to come. $85.7M over the next three years.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/17220556/russell-westbrook-signs-contract-extension-oklahoma-city-thunder

I know there is a possible change in this structure for Harden and Westbrook due to the super-max coming into play for the next CBA, but that won't void his contract.

The best the Bulls could do is clear their books (not an easy task) and beg Hayward or Griffin to come join forces next year. Since they happen to be horrible (much worse than Hayward's and Griffin's current teams and also much worse than teams like the Cs with cap space), I think that would be very wishful thinking on their part.

Starting over with a good young asset, a top end lottery pick, and their own lottery pick is likely their best avenue for the future.

[Darío SpanishFan]

That's true. I honestly don't know why they haven't made more effort to (or had more success to) sign FAs. They have the room, and the city is a good draw.

They did such effort. But nobody of the "important" free agents will go to a bottom-3 team in the league, no matter it is located in New York or in Heaven. They tried overpaying just "fine" free agents, like Tyler Johnson and Allen Crabbe as I remember, and both were matched.

It is not easy when you are so bad and can't build through the draft. They always can do an "Orlando Magic 2000" getting McGrady and Grant Hill, but even that team came from a very respectable 40-42 season with Doc Rivers as the best young coach in the league.

Realistically, Brooklyn has many tickets to buy another top-5 pick next year. I don't think anybody can deny it.

[CoachBo]

Just to be clear, this is not a trade rumor, just one that he said works for both teams. Personally I am not a fan of giving up 2018 Nets pick for Butler.

Wait, what?

We get to Keep the 2017 pick (high pick in a deep draft), Brown, and Smart? That 2018 pick is not guaranteed like this years. They might be the worst team this year but look at Philly this year after getting the worst record in 15-16.  I don't think it can get much worse for Brooklyn.

I doubt Chicago does this deal anyway so it doesn't matter.

The Nets' 2018 season looks just as dismal.  Unlikely to get a big FA signing given the new CBA.  In addition, the top end of the draft in 2018 fits better for our long term needs than the 2017 draft. It has several incredible bigs who are lacking in this draft.  I do not give up that asset easily, certainly not for a Jimmy Butler.  Seems like most others disagree with me, though.

What if New Orleans trades Holiday and its 1st for Brook Lopez (just as an example)?  That 1st might end up pretty good and Holiday could easily re-sign in Brooklyn.  What if the Nets then overpay for someone like Noel in free agency and continue to get growth from their younger players.  Sure the Nets won't make the playoffs in that scenario, but could certainly be better than the worst team in basketball. 

Continue to get growth? From whom, exactly?

RHJ, LaVert, McCullough, Whitehead.  Not world beaters, but all with potential to at least be rotational players on a good team.  Add a guy like Jrue Holiday and a defensive anchor in Nerlens Noel, plus the rookie from N.O.'s 1st (remember we are talking about them trading Lopez for Holiday and a 1st), and they would certainly be a much improved team from this year.  Not a playoff team, but certainly might not be even a bottom 3 or 5 team.

I'm going to call you out on this...

McCullough has played 13 games all season and is averaging 2.7 PPG this season, which is down from his career high 4.7 PPG last season.

Hollis-Jefferson biggest issue out of college was his shot and the hitch he has in it. So this season his FG% is down to 41.7% and there has been no improvement anywhere. Same guy as last season.

Whitehead is absolutely horrible. He's simply not an NBA player. He can't shoot, has no playmaking skills, and is not an above average defender. He's just young, has good size, and happens to be on the worse team in the league.

LeVert is not a good player either and has an extensive injury history.

So are these the guys that you've see growth in? Can you explain where? So you hate Rozier, but have seen growth in these guys?

They could sign Holiday and Noel and they would STILL be the worst team in the league.Bottom 7 teams this season are the Nets, Suns, Lakers, Sixers, Magic, Pelicans, and Wolves. Which are the "3 to 5" teams you could see them being better than?

young players, especially ones that have been injured, do actually get better, especially when they get healthy.  I don't think that is a foreign concept.

Except for Okafor, according to the vast majority of this board.

[BitterJim]

Just to be clear, this is not a trade rumor, just one that he said works for both teams. Personally I am not a fan of giving up 2018 Nets pick for Butler.

Wait, what?

We get to Keep the 2017 pick (high pick in a deep draft), Brown, and Smart? That 2018 pick is not guaranteed like this years. They might be the worst team this year but look at Philly this year after getting the worst record in 15-16.  I don't think it can get much worse for Brooklyn.

I doubt Chicago does this deal anyway so it doesn't matter.

The Nets' 2018 season looks just as dismal.  Unlikely to get a big FA signing given the new CBA.  In addition, the top end of the draft in 2018 fits better for our long term needs than the 2017 draft. It has several incredible bigs who are lacking in this draft.  I do not give up that asset easily, certainly not for a Jimmy Butler.  Seems like most others disagree with me, though.

What if New Orleans trades Holiday and its 1st for Brook Lopez (just as an example)?  That 1st might end up pretty good and Holiday could easily re-sign in Brooklyn.  What if the Nets then overpay for someone like Noel in free agency and continue to get growth from their younger players.  Sure the Nets won't make the playoffs in that scenario, but could certainly be better than the worst team in basketball. 

Continue to get growth? From whom, exactly?

RHJ, LaVert, McCullough, Whitehead.  Not world beaters, but all with potential to at least be rotational players on a good team.  Add a guy like Jrue Holiday and a defensive anchor in Nerlens Noel, plus the rookie from N.O.'s 1st (remember we are talking about them trading Lopez for Holiday and a 1st), and they would certainly be a much improved team from this year.  Not a playoff team, but certainly might not be even a bottom 3 or 5 team.

I'm going to call you out on this...

McCullough has played 13 games all season and is averaging 2.7 PPG this season, which is down from his career high 4.7 PPG last season.

Hollis-Jefferson biggest issue out of college was his shot and the hitch he has in it. So this season his FG% is down to 41.7% and there has been no improvement anywhere. Same guy as last season.

Whitehead is absolutely horrible. He's simply not an NBA player. He can't shoot, has no playmaking skills, and is not an above average defender. He's just young, has good size, and happens to be on the worse team in the league.

LeVert is not a good player either and has an extensive injury history.

So are these the guys that you've see growth in? Can you explain where? So you hate Rozier, but have seen growth in these guys?

They could sign Holiday and Noel and they would STILL be the worst team in the league.Bottom 7 teams this season are the Nets, Suns, Lakers, Sixers, Magic, Pelicans, and Wolves. Which are the "3 to 5" teams you could see them being better than?

young players, especially ones that have been injured, do actually get better, especially when they get healthy.  I don't think that is a foreign concept.

You're absolutely right, though you surely could have left out the snark and made your point better.

But even there you are seemingly ignoring the fact that for the Nets to improve relative to everyone else, their young guys have to improve faster and end up better than young guys on other teams in the bottom 5.

So essentially you're stacking up Levert, RHJ, Whitehead, McCullough against:

Simmons/Embiid/Saric/Holmes/top 5 pick (or two)
Ingram/Russell/Clarkson/Zubac/Randle/top 3 pick (possibly)
Bender/Chriss/Warren/Booker/top 5 pick
KAT/Wiggins/Lavine/Dunn/top 7 pick

In terms of talent currently on the rosters, it's absurd to think BKN's young guys will help them more than these other guys will help their teams next year. I can't think of any team in the bottom 10 that would trade its young players for BKN's. So why would we expect BKN to get out of the bottom 3-5?

And then you have the added effect that BKN will suffer relative to any of those teams because they have no lottery picks for for the next two years. They can trade their best player for a decent pick, sure - but all of these other teams have other assets too, many of which are more valuable than Brook Lopez.

While the current bottom-feeding teams all have young cores and look ready to improve, there's a good chance that 1. at least one of those teams you listed doesn't improve like they should and 2. An older team has a big name player retire/leave in FA and ends up tanking (*cough* Dallas *cough*).  While I think there's a strong possibility that Brooklyn is once again the worst team in the league next year, I wouldn't put money on it

[saltlover]

Just to be clear, this is not a trade rumor, just one that he said works for both teams. Personally I am not a fan of giving up 2018 Nets pick for Butler.

Wait, what?

We get to Keep the 2017 pick (high pick in a deep draft), Brown, and Smart? That 2018 pick is not guaranteed like this years. They might be the worst team this year but look at Philly this year after getting the worst record in 15-16.  I don't think it can get much worse for Brooklyn.

I doubt Chicago does this deal anyway so it doesn't matter.

The Nets' 2018 season looks just as dismal.  Unlikely to get a big FA signing given the new CBA.  In addition, the top end of the draft in 2018 fits better for our long term needs than the 2017 draft. It has several incredible bigs who are lacking in this draft.  I do not give up that asset easily, certainly not for a Jimmy Butler.  Seems like most others disagree with me, though.

What if New Orleans trades Holiday and its 1st for Brook Lopez (just as an example)?  That 1st might end up pretty good and Holiday could easily re-sign in Brooklyn.  What if the Nets then overpay for someone like Noel in free agency and continue to get growth from their younger players.  Sure the Nets won't make the playoffs in that scenario, but could certainly be better than the worst team in basketball. 

Continue to get growth? From whom, exactly?

RHJ, LaVert, McCullough, Whitehead.  Not world beaters, but all with potential to at least be rotational players on a good team.  Add a guy like Jrue Holiday and a defensive anchor in Nerlens Noel, plus the rookie from N.O.'s 1st (remember we are talking about them trading Lopez for Holiday and a 1st), and they would certainly be a much improved team from this year.  Not a playoff team, but certainly might not be even a bottom 3 or 5 team.

I'm going to call you out on this...

McCullough has played 13 games all season and is averaging 2.7 PPG this season, which is down from his career high 4.7 PPG last season.

Hollis-Jefferson biggest issue out of college was his shot and the hitch he has in it. So this season his FG% is down to 41.7% and there has been no improvement anywhere. Same guy as last season.

Whitehead is absolutely horrible. He's simply not an NBA player. He can't shoot, has no playmaking skills, and is not an above average defender. He's just young, has good size, and happens to be on the worse team in the league.

LeVert is not a good player either and has an extensive injury history.

So are these the guys that you've see growth in? Can you explain where? So you hate Rozier, but have seen growth in these guys?

They could sign Holiday and Noel and they would STILL be the worst team in the league.Bottom 7 teams this season are the Nets, Suns, Lakers, Sixers, Magic, Pelicans, and Wolves. Which are the "3 to 5" teams you could see them being better than?

young players, especially ones that have been injured, do actually get better, especially when they get healthy.  I don't think that is a foreign concept.

You're absolutely right, though you surely could have left out the snark and made your point better.

But even there you are seemingly ignoring the fact that for the Nets to improve relative to everyone else, their young guys have to improve faster and end up better than young guys on other teams in the bottom 5.

So essentially you're stacking up Levert, RHJ, Whitehead, McCullough against:

Simmons/Embiid/Saric/Holmes/top 5 pick (or two)
Ingram/Russell/Clarkson/Zubac/Randle/top 3 pick (possibly)
Bender/Chriss/Warren/Booker/top 5 pick
KAT/Wiggins/Lavine/Dunn/top 7 pick

In terms of talent currently on the rosters, it's absurd to think BKN's young guys will help them more than these other guys will help their teams next year. I can't think of any team in the bottom 10 that would trade its young players for BKN's. So why would we expect BKN to get out of the bottom 3-5?

And then you have the added effect that BKN will suffer relative to any of those teams because they have no lottery picks for for the next two years. They can trade their best player for a decent pick, sure - but all of these other teams have other assets too, many of which are more valuable than Brook Lopez.

While the current bottom-feeding teams all have young cores and look ready to improve, there's a good chance that 1. at least one of those teams you listed doesn't improve like they should and 2. An older team has a big name player retire/leave in FA and ends up tanking (*cough* Dallas *cough*).  While I think there's a strong possibility that Brooklyn is once again the worst team in the league next year, I wouldn't put money on it

I'd take them at pretty good odds, myself.  They are certainly the favorite, given their relative health this season, how far they've cleared the field by, their inability to trade for anything better (short of giving up future picks which won't happen), the relatively weak free agent class, the lack of a high draft pick, the quality of their roster, evidenced by not only this year's performance but their players' historical performances, and the fact that all of the teams ahead of them can't check off all the boxes listed above like the Nets can.

Next year's team should be in the 15-20 win range at best.  That's often good enough for worst record.  It's not as if they've gotten exceptionally unlucky in terms of Pythagorean record -- they're still an 11-42 team by that metric.

The Nets aren't getting any better next season.  Another team will have to get a TON worse, and the candidates just aren't there to take such a major step back. You suggest Dallas -- could anyone currently starting on the Nets start for Dallas?  Maybe Brook could start over Dirk, and even that isn't 100% guaranteed.  If he retires, Dallas would have to shed a lot of talent just to get to Brooklyn's level.  The Nets are terrible, and it's not getting better next year.