Question Isn't "Is Boogie Available", It's "Does Danny Even Want Him.."

[aefgogreen]

Boogie's attitude aside, I'm not ready to say that he's everything we need.  I think there's a good chance that he's just empty stats on a bad team.  Plus his defense leaves a lot to be desired.  I know we already have two good defenders on the frontline, but we could use a shot blocker, and that's not Cousins.  Not sure he's the guy to burn a pick on.

Cousins is a good, sometimes great defender. He's 17th in the NBA in blocks, tied with Karl Towns. He's also 22nd in the NBA - and first among centers - in steals, and he's led the NBA in charges taken twice in the past three years.

I'm not sure I agree with, or even fully understand, the "empty stats" argument.

I understand how, for example, a good player on a bad team might get more points and rebounds, because there's no one around him who can score or rebound well.

But for the person who buys the "empty stats" argument, are they saying the stats will fall off a cliff if that player goes to a good team? KG and Allen's numbers dropped in Boston—but that's bound to happen when you have good players around you. Were their pre-Boston stats "empty"?

Cousins is averaging 28 and 10, and though I'm sure his scoring would drop if he came to Boston, I don't think it would drop to like 15 points. And I'm not sure his rebounds would drop at all.

Mea culpa on the defense - I wasn't aware that his numbers were this high (although I'd like some more blocks) - as for the empty stats, I think his shooting percentage is lower than it should be.  i have no problem if his numbers drop and he shoots a better percentage.  - his plus minus is .2, not great.  I admit I don't follow the Kings (or Cousins) extremely closely, so if they trade for him, it may very well work out.  I'll be elated to be wrong.

[FreddieJ]

Boogie's attitude aside, I'm not ready to say that he's everything we need.  I think there's a good chance that he's just empty stats on a bad team.  Plus his defense leaves a lot to be desired.  I know we already have two good defenders on the frontline, but we could use a shot blocker, and that's not Cousins.  Not sure he's the guy to burn a pick on.

Cousins is a good, sometimes great defender. He's 17th in the NBA in blocks, tied with Karl Towns. He's also 22nd in the NBA - and first among centers - in steals, and he's led the NBA in charges taken twice in the past three years.

I'm not sure I agree with, or even fully understand, the "empty stats" argument.

I understand how, for example, a good player on a bad team might get more points and rebounds, because there's no one around him who can score or rebound well.

But for the person who buys the "empty stats" argument, are they saying the stats will fall off a cliff if that player goes to a good team? KG and Allen's numbers dropped in Boston—but that's bound to happen when you have good players around you. Were their pre-Boston stats "empty"?

Cousins is averaging 28 and 10, and though I'm sure his scoring would drop if he came to Boston, I don't think it would drop to like 15 points. And I'm not sure his rebounds would drop at all.

Mea culpa on the defense - I wasn't aware that his numbers were this high (although I'd like some more blocks) - as for the empty stats, I think his shooting percentage is lower than it should be.  i have no problem if his numbers drop and he shoots a better percentage.  - his plus minus is .2, not great.  I admit I don't follow the Kings (or Cousins) extremely closely, so if they trade for him, it may very well work out.  I'll be elated to be wrong.

He shoots nearly 5 threes a game and a ton of free throws, do you know how to measure true efficiency?

[Phantom255x]

I think that the question really is "Does Stevens want him".

Zach Lowe did report earlier in the season that Stevens doesn't want to be near Cousins either.. but not sure if that was a legit report (or just Lowe guessing based on the philosophy of Stevens).

I can see the report being true still.

[MJohnnyboy]

I think that the question really is "Does Stevens want him".

Zach Lowe did report earlier in the season that Stevens doesn't want to be near Cousins either.. but not sure if that was a legit report (or just Lowe guessing based on the philosophy of Stevens).

I can see the report being true still.

Yeah I want to second this thread from what I heard. I swear I have no sources or anything but over the holidays but I was talking to a friend of mine who has a source in the organization. He says Danny hasn't called the Kings once about DMC. That might be because the Kings have made it clear Cousins isn't on the market, but it also could be the Celtics don't want to take their chances on Cousins' attitude.

[Phantom255x]

I think that the question really is "Does Stevens want him".

Zach Lowe did report earlier in the season that Stevens doesn't want to be near Cousins either.. but not sure if that was a legit report (or just Lowe guessing based on the philosophy of Stevens).

I can see the report being true still.

Yeah I want to second this thread from what I heard. I swear I have no sources or anything but over the holidays but I was talking to a friend of mine who has a source in the organization. He says Danny hasn't called the Kings once about DMC. That might be because the Kings have made it clear Cousins isn't on the market, but it also could be the Celtics don't want to take their chances on Cousins' attitude.

Your friend has a source in the organization? Wow do you know anything about Ainge's interest in Butler (is his interest big?) lol. Could you ask 

[colincb]

He's not available.

[action781]

Boogie's attitude aside, I'm not ready to say that he's everything we need.  I think there's a good chance that he's just empty stats on a bad team.  Plus his defense leaves a lot to be desired.  I know we already have two good defenders on the frontline, but we could use a shot blocker, and that's not Cousins.  Not sure he's the guy to burn a pick on.

Cousins is a good, sometimes great defender. He's 17th in the NBA in blocks, tied with Karl Towns. He's also 22nd in the NBA - and first among centers - in steals, and he's led the NBA in charges taken twice in the past three years.

I'm not sure I agree with, or even fully understand, the "empty stats" argument.

I understand how, for example, a good player on a bad team might get more points and rebounds, because there's no one around him who can score or rebound well.

But for the person who buys the "empty stats" argument, are they saying the stats will fall off a cliff if that player goes to a good team? KG and Allen's numbers dropped in Boston—but that's bound to happen when you have good players around you. Were their pre-Boston stats "empty"?

Cousins is averaging 28 and 10, and though I'm sure his scoring would drop if he came to Boston, I don't think it would drop to like 15 points. And I'm not sure his rebounds would drop at all.

Sounds like you understand the empty stats argument pretty well then

IMO, a player is racking up "empty stats" by collecting points and rebounds that are basically there to be collected by some player on the floor at that time.  If you are getting big time stats in those categories, but your team is not winning games, then I consider those big stats to be empty.  If you're racking up big stats but your team is winning enough games (cutoff of "enough games" IMO being to make the playoffs), then I would say your stats are not "empty".

Ray and KG had put up a lot of stats, but they were done alongside winning basketball games.  Cousins stats do not produce wins which reminds me more of Kevin Love in Minnesota than Ray or KG. 

IMO empty stats have nothing to do with what the player produces once they go to a different team.  It's all about whether or not the stats contributed to winning basketball or not.

[csfansince60s]

I think that the question really is "Does Stevens want him".

I heard Ainge say personnel decisions are equally divided between himself, Stevens and Wyc.
Wyc is probably the money consideration. I suspect Stevens and Ainge are not always on the same page, which could make for a problem. I question whether a college coach with so little NBA experience should have an equal share in personnel decisions.

I also heard Stevens say that he never had any real big men at Butler--they all went to the bigger schools. So he molded his style with the smaller team he had. Sounds like he's a small team coach.

TP.

I have no doubt that they are not always on the same page.

The first example of this came two seasons ago when Stevens and Wyc wanted us to make the playoffs and Ainge didn't. The inferences were there.

I think that it is hard to tease those differences of opinion out, but what could've been another example of that is when Greg Monroe became an UFA, and we didn't even meet with the guy.

I agree with your opinion on Stevens-ball=small ball with ONLY high character guys because of his Butler history.

That's why I think that Monroe, Noel and Cousins will never be Celtics if Brad has that much influence.

[Roy H.]

Ray and KG had put up a lot of stats, but they were done alongside winning basketball games.  Cousins stats do not produce wins which reminds me more of Kevin Love in Minnesota than Ray or KG. 

Ray and KG were both on bad lottery teams for a couple years before being traded here. I don't think that stats are empty just because they come on a bad team. For instance, for the last three seasons, DMC's teams have outscored their opponents when he's on the floor. He's battling, and he's building leads. That's not empty production.

[vjcsmoke]

Your example of Kevin Love contradicts itself.  Hasn't Love won a championship after moving to the Cavs.  Isn't he playing winning ball?  He has been part of Cleveland's Big 3 and the stats he put up were good before joining the Cavs even though the Timberwolves were 'losers' according to your standard.

I think we tend to overthink things.  Cousins is a dominant 5 in a league that is short on talent in that position.  If we could land Cousins it would immediately improve the Celtics and make them contenders.  Were you watching vs the Raptors as Valuncianus ate up our team on the boards? 23 rebounds for 1 guy, and 10 of them were offensive rebounds. 

We simply cannot match up against decent 5's right now and we can't rebound well enough to close out games because good defense can only stay good so long when you give up that many extra chances to the offense.

Ray and KG had put up a lot of stats, but they were done alongside winning basketball games.  Cousins stats do not produce wins which reminds me more of Kevin Love in Minnesota than Ray or KG. 

IMO empty stats have nothing to do with what the player produces once they go to a different team.  It's all about whether or not the stats contributed to winning basketball or not.

[Smitty77]

Ray and KG had put up a lot of stats, but they were done alongside winning basketball games.  Cousins stats do not produce wins which reminds me more of Kevin Love in Minnesota than Ray or KG. 

Ray and KG were both on bad lottery teams for a couple years before being traded here. I don't think that stats are empty just because they come on a bad team. For instance, for the last three seasons, DMC's teams have outscored their opponents when he's on the floor. He's battling, and he's building leads. That's not empty production.

Great point Roy!!!

Smitty77