Author Topic: The last time we had a Top 5 pick in a 2 Player draft  (Read 6806 times)

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Re: The last time we had a Top 5 pick in a 2 Player draft
« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2016, 06:45:50 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Danny said he is not trading the pick for anyone in their 30s. Maybe you don't believe him and things can/do change but I hope he is being honest this time.

This is my point.  In 2007, we had Pierce.  Putting 30+ aged players around Pierce made sense.  Putting 30+ aged players around anyone on this team makes no sense to me.  We need to shoot for a longer horizon for a few reasons.
Well as others have said, Thomas is a 27 year old all-star... which is the same age Pierce was at when we traded for 32 year old Ray Allen. 

If you could add Melo to this 48 win team, and have max cap space to sign a Horford/Howard/DeRozan ...  how many wins could that team get?  And keep in mind we'd still have a major bounty of assets available if a guy like DeMarcus Cousins finally becomes available or demands a trade.   

As I said in another post, it's a unique situation, because the cap jumps another 20 million in 2017.  So we're looking at a free agent class that would include guys like Curry, Westbrook, Blake, Chris Paul, Hayward, Lowry, and possibly even Durant if he stays one more year as expected.  And even by trading for Melo and signing a max player, we'd still have room to go after one of those guys next Summer.  Having a 55+ win team probably puts us in good position to lure one, right? 

I wrote a piece two weeks ago where I basically rejected the idea that the team even needs to land a star to lure free agents:  http://clnsradio.com/boston-celtics-news/item/13678-boston-celtics-why-not-build-a-big-5

To counter that, I now wanted to explore the alternative.  If we really DO need a star to attract stars... and guys like Butler/George/Cousins aren't realistic -  what would a realistic outcome actually look like?  Well, I suspect it would look a lot like 2007 when we traded a top 5 pick for a 32 year old with injury problems.  Thus... Melo or Marc Gasol are the two guys that come to mind when thinking of a 2016 doppelganger for the 2007 offseason.


Again, who has Melo attracted before now? His team has had opportunities to bring in a top teammate yet I haven't heard a whiff of anyone notable being rumored to be interested in joining him.

Well to be fair to Melo, I'm not sure the perienneal playoff team he lead back in Denver (they were a winning team every year he was there) ever had cap space to sign a max player.  That was part of the problem (much like KG in Minny).  They couldn't surround him with talent.

As for New York, in his first 3 years they were a playoff team, but they had a ton of money invested into what was left of Amare.   They might have had cap space recently, but that team is pretty disastrous right now. 

Boston, on the other hand... is already a 48 win team.  Adding Melo pushes them above that, right?  It's an org that has a ton going for it.  Melo would presumably attract talent.

Keep in mind that as recently as a few months ago we had heard that LeBron was pushing for the Cavs to land Melo.   We've also heard rumors over the years that Chris Paul wanted to play with Melo.   I'm not sure I buy the idea that star players don't want to play with Melo.  They probably just don't want anything to do with the Knicks.  Boston is a different situation.  We we were basically tied for 3rd in the East with Isaiah Thomas as our main scorer.  Boston could, theoretically, land Melo, sign Horford... and in Summer 2017 even if the big dream players like Steph and Durant are ridiculous, they could add a vet like Chris Paul (and trade IT).   We could be a pretty serious contender. 

For the record, I'm not pushing for us to trade for Melo.  Like I said before, I don't even think Boston needs to acquire a star to be a player in free agency.  But a lot of people think adding star talent is a prerequisite.  So if we're surveying the landscape and trying to stay a bit more realistic than "#3 pick for Paul George", a guy like Melo seems like a "star" that could fairly realistically be acquired.   Maybe that's the first step. 

Re: The last time we had a Top 5 pick in a 2 Player draft
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2016, 09:18:13 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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Danny said he is not trading the pick for anyone in their 30s. Maybe you don't believe him and things can/do change but I hope he is being honest this time.

This is my point.  In 2007, we had Pierce.  Putting 30+ aged players around Pierce made sense.  Putting 30+ aged players around anyone on this team makes no sense to me.  We need to shoot for a longer horizon for a few reasons.
Well as others have said, Thomas is a 27 year old all-star... which is the same age Pierce was at when we traded for 32 year old Ray Allen. 

If you could add Melo to this 48 win team, and have max cap space to sign a Horford/Howard/DeRozan ...  how many wins could that team get?  And keep in mind we'd still have a major bounty of assets available if a guy like DeMarcus Cousins finally becomes available or demands a trade.   

As I said in another post, it's a unique situation, because the cap jumps another 20 million in 2017.  So we're looking at a free agent class that would include guys like Curry, Westbrook, Blake, Chris Paul, Hayward, Lowry, and possibly even Durant if he stays one more year as expected.  And even by trading for Melo and signing a max player, we'd still have room to go after one of those guys next Summer.  Having a 55+ win team probably puts us in good position to lure one, right? 

I wrote a piece two weeks ago where I basically rejected the idea that the team even needs to land a star to lure free agents:  http://clnsradio.com/boston-celtics-news/item/13678-boston-celtics-why-not-build-a-big-5

To counter that, I now wanted to explore the alternative.  If we really DO need a star to attract stars... and guys like Butler/George/Cousins aren't realistic -  what would a realistic outcome actually look like?  Well, I suspect it would look a lot like 2007 when we traded a top 5 pick for a 32 year old with injury problems.  Thus... Melo or Marc Gasol are the two guys that come to mind when thinking of a 2016 doppelganger for the 2007 offseason.


Again, who has Melo attracted before now? His team has had opportunities to bring in a top teammate yet I haven't heard a whiff of anyone notable being rumored to be interested in joining him.

Well to be fair to Melo, I'm not sure the perienneal playoff team he lead back in Denver (they were a winning team every year he was there) ever had cap space to sign a max player.  That was part of the problem (much like KG in Minny).  They couldn't surround him with talent.

As for New York, in his first 3 years they were a playoff team, but they had a ton of money invested into what was left of Amare.   They might have had cap space recently, but that team is pretty disastrous right now. 

Boston, on the other hand... is already a 48 win team.  Adding Melo pushes them above that, right?  It's an org that has a ton going for it.  Melo would presumably attract talent.

Keep in mind that as recently as a few months ago we had heard that LeBron was pushing for the Cavs to land Melo.   We've also heard rumors over the years that Chris Paul wanted to play with Melo.   I'm not sure I buy the idea that star players don't want to play with Melo.  They probably just don't want anything to do with the Knicks.  Boston is a different situation.  We we were basically tied for 3rd in the East with Isaiah Thomas as our main scorer.  Boston could, theoretically, land Melo, sign Horford... and in Summer 2017 even if the big dream players like Steph and Durant are ridiculous, they could add a vet like Chris Paul (and trade IT).   We could be a pretty serious contender. 

For the record, I'm not pushing for us to trade for Melo.  Like I said before, I don't even think Boston needs to acquire a star to be a player in free agency.  But a lot of people think adding star talent is a prerequisite.  So if we're surveying the landscape and trying to stay a bit more realistic than "#3 pick for Paul George", a guy like Melo seems like a "star" that could fairly realistically be acquired.   Maybe that's the first step.

They had money and no one of note chose to go there. Like I said before, I'm not really talking about 4 seasons ago, he was younger, I would probably still hold onto thinking he could attract players but he hasn't and now he's old and a tight window. He will cost a lot of assets and money.   You mention we are a 48 win team but we wouldn't be putting that team out there with the addition of Melo, multiple people will be sent out to match his money (Amir for one who was important defensively helping get that 48). Just imagine Melo gets another season ending injury, how many times can he come back at this point and keep beating father time?

I'll say it again, I would take Melo but I just think the price is too high at this point. UNLESS, there was another player for certain we were bringing in. A player who could be #2-3 and make us better even if Melo goes down. I don't want to bring in Melo and hope he attracts other players.


Also, I get that people want a star but I don't want just any star, not for the 3rd pick anyway. Who out of Melo, IT4 and the other star is going to take a back seat. As much as IT4 is praised, he was verbally unhappy about a similar situation in PHX. Melo isn't. Howard won't take a backseat, look how upset he is about his role in Houston. Maybe Horford but who knows if we will get him. Who else?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 09:27:24 PM by ImShakHeIsShaq »
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Re: The last time we had a Top 5 pick in a 2 Player draft
« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2016, 09:20:44 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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There's no KG out there to come to Boston as a follow up move.

There's a KD.

No, there really isn't.
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Re: The last time we had a Top 5 pick in a 2 Player draft
« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2016, 09:33:34 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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there is no such thing as a two player draft. There are gems in this draft like every other draft, you just have to pray your team lucks into one of them.

Was the draft that produced IT a one two player draft?

Re: The last time we had a Top 5 pick in a 2 Player draft
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2016, 09:35:05 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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there is no such thing as a two player draft. There are gems in this draft like every other draft, you just have to pray your team lucks into one of them.

Was the draft that produced IT a one two player draft?
Yeah I have no doubt someone (perhaps multiple players) taken after pick #2 will develop into key players.  Who knows if that player will be taken 3rd, though.

Re: The last time we had a Top 5 pick in a 2 Player draft
« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2016, 09:40:08 PM »

Offline alldaboston

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There's no KG out there to come to Boston as a follow up move.

There's a KD.

No, there really isn't.

Yeah there is. Kris Dunn. Jeez man get with the times!



I kid, I kid, lol. I don't want Dunn.
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

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Re: The last time we had a Top 5 pick in a 2 Player draft
« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2016, 11:07:29 AM »

Offline The One

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We all want to see Boston draft a future superstar or trade the pick for a young stud in his prime, but there might be a middle ground.  What happened the last time we had a top 5 pick in a 2 player draft?

We successfully traded the pick for an all-star... but it was a 32 year old with injuries. 

I HATED the move at the time, but trading for Ray Allen opened the door up for bigger moves.

I wrote something for CLNS Radio pondering what it would look like if we replicated the 2007 Draft:  http://clnsradio.com/boston-celtics-news/item/13788-the-boston-celtics-and-replicating-the-summer-of-2007

Unfortunately, the conclusion I came to is that Boston would end up moving the pick for a less-than-idea player like 32 year old Carmelo Anthony or 32 year old Marc Gasol.   While I fully expect either idea to be initially met with universal disgust (much like the Ray trade), I go on to explain in detail why taking a gut-punch on either of those deals might position the team where it needs to be in 2016 and 2017 free agency.

What do you guys think?   Most of the guys we want are most likely going nowhere.  Moving #3 for Melo would undoubtedly anger a lot of us, but if it paved the way for a significant free agent signing, pushed the team into the 55+ win bracket and set the stage for a big 2017 free agency, it might be worth it.

2 TPs...one for CLNS Radio article and the other for this topic...well thought out.

I think I'd rather Melo come here...but it seems that Gasol is more realistic.



Re: The last time we had a Top 5 pick in a 2 Player draft
« Reply #37 on: May 20, 2016, 11:14:32 AM »

Offline Granath

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The last time I heard the term "two player draft" was last year...and the 2nd player wasn't drafted until #3.

The time before I heard the term "two player draft" the third guy drafted made the All Star team 5 times.

So much for "two player drafts".
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.