Jahlil Okafor is making a bad situation worse in Philly

[Snakehead]

Okafor is a victim of the modern obsession with stats. 

Honestly, I'm really hoping that New Orleans finds a way to pair Anthony Davis with a dominant young interior presence so that the vogue in the league shifts back toward big men who create matchup problems with their scoring inside.  Maybe Utah can shift the discussion if they can get a decent point guard and win 50+ games with Hayward / Favors / Gobert.


I like that small-ball and perimeter scoring have become much more popular.  The game benefits from an emphasis on versatility, ball-movement, spacing, and so on.  But it goes too far when people decide there's only way to construct a team that can win.

I'm hoping rule changes help in this area.  I hope they remove the "hack-a" issues so guys like Jordan and Drummond can be dominant inside like players were throughout the history of the league, even if they can't shoot free throws.  That would help for sure.

I do think just the right players coming along could do it.  I mean, bigs can be so skilled at guard skills now that you can see teams playing these modern systems with height and size.  You bring up the Lakers, and part of the reason that team worked was because Odom had those skills, Pau had those skills, and Bynum was great in the post (best C in the league for multiple years IMO, because he was a better low post scorer than Dwight ever was).

[PhoSita]

Okafor is a victim of the modern obsession with stats. 

Honestly, I'm really hoping that New Orleans finds a way to pair Anthony Davis with a dominant young interior presence so that the vogue in the league shifts back toward big men who create matchup problems with their scoring inside.  Maybe Utah can shift the discussion if they can get a decent point guard and win 50+ games with Hayward / Favors / Gobert.


I like that small-ball and perimeter scoring have become much more popular.  The game benefits from an emphasis on versatility, ball-movement, spacing, and so on.  But it goes too far when people decide there's only way to construct a team that can win.

I'm hoping rule changes help in this area.  I hope they remove the "hack-a" issues so guys like Jordan and Drummond can be dominant inside like players were throughout the history of the league, even if they can't shoot free throws.  That would help for sure.

I do think just the right players coming along could do it.  I mean, bigs can be so skilled at guard skills now that you can see teams playing these modern systems with height and size.  You bring up the Lakers, and part of the reason that team worked was because Odom had those skills, Pau had those skills, and Bynum was great in the post (best C in the league for multiple years IMO, because he was a better low post scorer than Dwight ever was).

I dunno if you need rule changes.  If Anthony Davis and Demarcus Cousins were on the same team, I think the discussion changes drastically. 

The makeup of the best team in the league, whichever the "iconic" team of the moment is, has a tendency to direct the discussion on how to build a great team.

Interesting thing, the Spurs right now are a fairly paint-bound, mid-range heavy squad, with a point guard who scores 11-12 points per game, and yet it doesn't change the narrative at all.  I guess the Spurs winning lots of games is just kind of passe now.  People don't bat an eyelash.  It's just what Popovich and Duncan do.

[Snakehead]

Okafor is a victim of the modern obsession with stats. 

Honestly, I'm really hoping that New Orleans finds a way to pair Anthony Davis with a dominant young interior presence so that the vogue in the league shifts back toward big men who create matchup problems with their scoring inside.  Maybe Utah can shift the discussion if they can get a decent point guard and win 50+ games with Hayward / Favors / Gobert.


I like that small-ball and perimeter scoring have become much more popular.  The game benefits from an emphasis on versatility, ball-movement, spacing, and so on.  But it goes too far when people decide there's only way to construct a team that can win.

I'm hoping rule changes help in this area.  I hope they remove the "hack-a" issues so guys like Jordan and Drummond can be dominant inside like players were throughout the history of the league, even if they can't shoot free throws.  That would help for sure.

I do think just the right players coming along could do it.  I mean, bigs can be so skilled at guard skills now that you can see teams playing these modern systems with height and size.  You bring up the Lakers, and part of the reason that team worked was because Odom had those skills, Pau had those skills, and Bynum was great in the post (best C in the league for multiple years IMO, because he was a better low post scorer than Dwight ever was).

I dunno if you need rule changes.  If Anthony Davis and Demarcus Cousins were on the same team, I think the discussion changes drastically. 

The makeup of the best team in the league, whichever the "iconic" team of the moment is, has a tendency to direct the discussion on how to build a great team.

Interesting thing, the Spurs right now are a fairly paint-bound, mid-range heavy squad, with a point guard who scores 11-12 points per game, and yet it doesn't change the narrative at all.  I guess the Spurs winning lots of games is just kind of passe now.  People don't bat an eyelash.  It's just what Popovich and Duncan do.

I think you should change the rules.  I just have a long term mentality with the sport and this was only a recent issue.  In the past there were a number of players we all think as great that if they played now would be embroiled in this "hack-a" thing where they can't even be in at the end of the game.

Yeah there are bigs that can shoot FTs.  Always have been.  But there's always been a few guys that can't but usually excel in rebounding and defense.  Stuff bigs do.   It would 100% help things balance out more.

I could go on with other reasons I hate it but that's just part.

You are right about the Spurs.  As always, they are just kind of their own case because they generally have so much talent.

 And really I don't think the whole league is following the Warriors blueprint quite as much as people think, either.  Or at least, it was just a natural evolution of the game and where big men were going, learning to shoot threes and having guard skills more and more.  Guys like KG and Nowitzki (and others even before them) set that in motion.

[Celtics4ever]

Or at least, it was just a natural evolution of the game and where big men were going, learning to shoot threes and having guard skills more and more.  Guys like KG and Nowitzki (and others even before them) set that in motion.

How about giving Bird some love in that regard.

[Moranis]

Talent is what matters.  There just aren't as many talented big men today as years past.  It really is that simple.  The next time a guy like Shaq comes along, the narrative will shift again.

[Donoghus]

Talent is what matters.  There just aren't as many talented big men today as years past.  It really is that simple.  The next time a guy like Shaq comes along, the narrative will shift again.

I'm actually amazed that someone like him hasn't come through again.  It's been over 20 years now since Shaq got drafted by the Magic.

You think with the modern advances in health science & training since the early 90s, someone near that size & coordination would come through again.

[fairweatherfan]

Talent is what matters.  There just aren't as many talented big men today as years past.  It really is that simple.  The next time a guy like Shaq comes along, the narrative will shift again.

I'm actually amazed that someone like him hasn't come through again.  It's been over 20 years now since Shaq got drafted by the Magic.

You think with the modern advances in health science & training since the early 90s, someone near that size & coordination would come through again.

Dwight Howard's about as close as we've come to that type of player and he's inferior to Shaq on both counts.  And breaking down younger to boot.

[Donoghus]

Talent is what matters.  There just aren't as many talented big men today as years past.  It really is that simple.  The next time a guy like Shaq comes along, the narrative will shift again.

I'm actually amazed that someone like him hasn't come through again.  It's been over 20 years now since Shaq got drafted by the Magic.

You think with the modern advances in health science & training since the early 90s, someone near that size & coordination would come through again.

Dwight Howard's about as close as we've come to that type of player and he's inferior to Shaq on both counts.  And breaking down younger to boot.

Yup. 

[PhoSita]

Shaq is just an enormous outlier in terms of his size alone, let alone the skill he combined with that size (free throws aside, he had fantastic touch and coordination).

If Demarcus Cousins were 2-3 inches taller and 50 pounds heavier without sacrificing any strength or coordination, he might be comparable.

It's not that surprising we haven't seen another Shaq.  We probably won't for a long while.

[Who]

Greg Oden was closer to Shaq than Dwight Howard. A legit 7 footer with the elite athleticism, mobility and power. [dang] injuries.

Dwight Howard was an undersized center. Not comparable to Shaq.

[fairweatherfan]

Greg Oden was closer to Shaq than Dwight Howard. A legit 7 footer with the elite athleticism, mobility and power. [dang] injuries.

Dwight Howard was an undersized center. Not comparable to Shaq.

What I was saying is that his skillset and build, the way he impacted a game at his peak, isn't that different from Shaq's, but he's substantially smaller and less coordinated.  But the strengths and weaknesses are mostly consistent with an inferior version.  A "miniature" (feels odd to say about a ~6'10" guy), less athletic version but from a similar mold.

Never saw enough of Oden in the NBA to comment on whether he was more similar or not.  But I feel like you're getting overly hung up on being similarly sized, which of course Dwight is not.

[Moranis]

Greg Oden was closer to Shaq than Dwight Howard. A legit 7 footer with the elite athleticism, mobility and power. [dang] injuries.

Dwight Howard was an undersized center. Not comparable to Shaq.

yeah he might have changed the conversation as well.  Frankly, it doesn't have to be a Shaq, but a number of Ewing, Robinson, etc. level players at the same time would work.  Even guys like Mourning aren't nearly as common as they used to be.

[spikelovetheCelts]

it would probably be good if we put a bit of a moratorium on the okafor and noel posts. It has long gotten past ridiculous and these conversations never go anywhere. Maybe revisit in the offseason when something could actually happen?

The Philly situation is one of the most fascinating ones in the league, and Okafor and Noel are polarizing prospects.

They also represent two very enticing trade targets who are likely to be at least somewhat available in the near future.


Not like there's a ton to discuss about the team right now, aside from debating the merits of giving Jerebko and Zeller playing time ahead of Jordan Mickey.

Don't worry with Jerry in charge now with all his championship rings I am sure nobody will get the best of Phily. They surely are on the way up.