Jahlil Okafor is making a bad situation worse in Philly

[Surferdad]

Just can't imagine that this was Danny's mystery man. Doesn't fit the Celtics tradition or the current roster of quality locker room guys.

[LarBrd33]

Just can't imagine that this was Danny's mystery man. Doesn't fit the Celtics tradition or the current roster of quality locker room guys.

But it 1000% fits the tradition of Ainge selling high, buying low and taking risks.  It was Okafor. I have very little doubt.  Makes total sense.

In any other scenario, it wouldn't make sense for Philly to trade a 20 year old putting up Okafor's stats, but the team has high hopes for Embiid's return and already have another quality big in Noel.   You don't trade a guy like Okafor for a pick that might not even be top 5.   Ainge is all about getting value.  Trading a possible dud pick for a player who might end up being better than anyone in this draft makes perfect sense for Boston.  My only question is what else were we including?  Avery Bradley?

[crimson_stallion]

Just can't imagine that this was Danny's mystery man. Doesn't fit the Celtics tradition or the current roster of quality locker room guys.

But it 1000% fits the tradition of Ainge selling high, buying low and taking risks.  It was Okafor. I have very little doubt.  Makes total sense.

In any other scenario, it wouldn't make sense for Philly to trade a 20 year old putting up Okafor's stats, but the team has high hopes for Embiid's return and already have another quality big in Noel.   You don't trade a guy like Okafor for a pick that might not even be top 5.   Ainge is all about getting value.  Trading a possible dud pick for a player who might end up being better than anyone in this draft makes perfect sense for Boston.  My only question is what else were we including?  Avery Bradley?

It actually doesn't really make sense.

1) "the player" was reportedly a big star player, which Okafor is far from

2) The team reportedly decided to hold off and see how they go this season - the Sixers are a dud team, so it makes no sense that they'd want to observe team progress.  Maybe they want to hold out on Embiid's progress or hold out until they know where the pick will be, but that doesn't meet what was reportedly said, which quite specifically hinted towards wanting to see how the team goes. 

3) The deal was reportedly considered to be a high risk on both sides - I don't see that to be the case here.  I think trading Okafor for the Nets pick is a moderate risk, but I wouldn't say it's a high risk.  I think trading the Nets pick for Okafor is also not a high risk, since we already know Okafor is not a bust (we don't know if he'll ever be a star, but he's definitely an NBA player)

There are a lot of things said that don't really match up with an Okafor trade, IMHO.

i also wouldn't consider this "selling high" or "buying low" for Ainge.  The pick is almost as likely to fall top 2 as it is to fall between 5-6 - if it does fall #1 then he is ripping himself off.  Okafor is averaging 17 PPG as a rookie, so people are going to get excited about his upside - not exactly what I'd consider buying low.

 

[Future Celtics Owner]

Standing 6-11, 275 pounds, with a 7-6 wingspan, a 9-3 ½ standing reach and absolutely gigantic hands....I think we all can agree that this man-child, even when compared to veteran players that are 40lbs less, Okafor posses: excellent coordination, feather-light footwork, graceful movements, fluid post game, nimble in the dribble drive, perfect center of gravity for positioning and pushing guys around, and a natural finisher around the paint and rim.

His gigantic size and natural abilities are what legends are made of, but right now his size is actually hurting his game lol. Very early in his NBA career and given his age( 1 and done) Okafor needs time for the marriage of his YETI size, natural abilities, and priceless skill. If he were a Celtic I'd put $ on him being an All-Star next season and expect Okafor to be a legit STAR the next……….but he's in Philly…..for now.

[LarBrd33]

Most recent game highlights of Okafor for those who haven't watched him:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKnwVCBkeEg

[LarBrd33]

Just can't imagine that this was Danny's mystery man. Doesn't fit the Celtics tradition or the current roster of quality locker room guys.

But it 1000% fits the tradition of Ainge selling high, buying low and taking risks.  It was Okafor. I have very little doubt.  Makes total sense.

In any other scenario, it wouldn't make sense for Philly to trade a 20 year old putting up Okafor's stats, but the team has high hopes for Embiid's return and already have another quality big in Noel.   You don't trade a guy like Okafor for a pick that might not even be top 5.   Ainge is all about getting value.  Trading a possible dud pick for a player who might end up being better than anyone in this draft makes perfect sense for Boston.  My only question is what else were we including?  Avery Bradley?

It actually doesn't really make sense.

1) "the player" was reportedly a big star player, which Okafor is far from

2) The team reportedly decided to hold off and see how they go this season - the Sixers are a dud team, so it makes no sense that they'd want to observe team progress.  Maybe they want to hold out on Embiid's progress or hold out until they know where the pick will be, but that doesn't meet what was reportedly said, which quite specifically hinted towards wanting to see how the team goes. 

3) The deal was reportedly considered to be a high risk on both sides - I don't see that to be the case here.  I think trading Okafor for the Nets pick is a moderate risk, but I wouldn't say it's a high risk.  I think trading the Nets pick for Okafor is also not a high risk, since we already know Okafor is not a bust (we don't know if he'll ever be a star, but he's definitely an NBA player)

There are a lot of things said that don't really match up with an Okafor trade, IMHO.

i also wouldn't consider this "selling high" or "buying low" for Ainge.  The pick is almost as likely to fall top 2 as it is to fall between 5-6 - if it does fall #1 then he is ripping himself off.  Okafor is averaging 17 PPG as a rookie, so people are going to get excited about his upside - not exactly what I'd consider buying low.

 

#1 - wrong

#2 - All Ainge said was that the other team decided they didn't want to do it last minute.  Rest is mythmaking.

#3 - Explained it to you in the other thread.  Insane risk for Philly.  Some risk for Boston if they were also including Marcus Smart.

It was Okafor.  Perfect match with what was said by Ainge and it's been reported by essentially every publication at this point that it was Okafor.

[alldaboston]

Just can't imagine that this was Danny's mystery man. Doesn't fit the Celtics tradition or the current roster of quality locker room guys.

But it 1000% fits the tradition of Ainge selling high, buying low and taking risks.  It was Okafor. I have very little doubt.  Makes total sense.

In any other scenario, it wouldn't make sense for Philly to trade a 20 year old putting up Okafor's stats, but the team has high hopes for Embiid's return and already have another quality big in Noel.   You don't trade a guy like Okafor for a pick that might not even be top 5.   Ainge is all about getting value.  Trading a possible dud pick for a player who might end up being better than anyone in this draft makes perfect sense for Boston.  My only question is what else were we including?  Avery Bradley?

It actually doesn't really make sense.

1) "the player" was reportedly a big star player, which Okafor is far from

2) The team reportedly decided to hold off and see how they go this season - the Sixers are a dud team, so it makes no sense that they'd want to observe team progress.  Maybe they want to hold out on Embiid's progress or hold out until they know where the pick will be, but that doesn't meet what was reportedly said, which quite specifically hinted towards wanting to see how the team goes. 

3) The deal was reportedly considered to be a high risk on both sides - I don't see that to be the case here.  I think trading Okafor for the Nets pick is a moderate risk, but I wouldn't say it's a high risk.  I think trading the Nets pick for Okafor is also not a high risk, since we already know Okafor is not a bust (we don't know if he'll ever be a star, but he's definitely an NBA player)

There are a lot of things said that don't really match up with an Okafor trade, IMHO.

i also wouldn't consider this "selling high" or "buying low" for Ainge.  The pick is almost as likely to fall top 2 as it is to fall between 5-6 - if it does fall #1 then he is ripping himself off.  Okafor is averaging 17 PPG as a rookie, so people are going to get excited about his upside - not exactly what I'd consider buying low.

 

#1 - wrong

#2 - All Ainge said was that the other team decided they didn't want to do it last minute.  Rest is mythmaking.

#3 - Explained it to you in the other thread.  Insane risk for Philly.  Some risk for Boston if they were also including Marcus Smart.

It was Okafor.  Perfect match with what was said by Ainge and it's been reported by essentially every publication at this point that it was Okafor.

FYI: every publication took it from bulpett, so essentially only bulpett has reported this.

[LarBrd33]

Just can't imagine that this was Danny's mystery man. Doesn't fit the Celtics tradition or the current roster of quality locker room guys.

But it 1000% fits the tradition of Ainge selling high, buying low and taking risks.  It was Okafor. I have very little doubt.  Makes total sense.

In any other scenario, it wouldn't make sense for Philly to trade a 20 year old putting up Okafor's stats, but the team has high hopes for Embiid's return and already have another quality big in Noel.   You don't trade a guy like Okafor for a pick that might not even be top 5.   Ainge is all about getting value.  Trading a possible dud pick for a player who might end up being better than anyone in this draft makes perfect sense for Boston.  My only question is what else were we including?  Avery Bradley?

It actually doesn't really make sense.

1) "the player" was reportedly a big star player, which Okafor is far from

2) The team reportedly decided to hold off and see how they go this season - the Sixers are a dud team, so it makes no sense that they'd want to observe team progress.  Maybe they want to hold out on Embiid's progress or hold out until they know where the pick will be, but that doesn't meet what was reportedly said, which quite specifically hinted towards wanting to see how the team goes. 

3) The deal was reportedly considered to be a high risk on both sides - I don't see that to be the case here.  I think trading Okafor for the Nets pick is a moderate risk, but I wouldn't say it's a high risk.  I think trading the Nets pick for Okafor is also not a high risk, since we already know Okafor is not a bust (we don't know if he'll ever be a star, but he's definitely an NBA player)

There are a lot of things said that don't really match up with an Okafor trade, IMHO.

i also wouldn't consider this "selling high" or "buying low" for Ainge.  The pick is almost as likely to fall top 2 as it is to fall between 5-6 - if it does fall #1 then he is ripping himself off.  Okafor is averaging 17 PPG as a rookie, so people are going to get excited about his upside - not exactly what I'd consider buying low.

 

#1 - wrong

#2 - All Ainge said was that the other team decided they didn't want to do it last minute.  Rest is mythmaking.

#3 - Explained it to you in the other thread.  Insane risk for Philly.  Some risk for Boston if they were also including Marcus Smart.

It was Okafor.  Perfect match with what was said by Ainge and it's been reported by essentially every publication at this point that it was Okafor.

FYI: every publication took it from bulpett, so essentially only bulpett has reported this.

So be it.  Nobody has denied it. 

At this point it really doesn't matter.  We're at the whims of the Nets and then the lotto.  Nets have a soft schedule coming up... hopefully they keep losing.  If it ends up top 2, we probably keep the pick.  Hopefully it stays high enough that it stays valuable in a trade.  We wouldn't have landed 32 year old Ray Allen without the #5 pick. 

[spikelovetheCelts]

Just can't imagine that this was Danny's mystery man. Doesn't fit the Celtics tradition or the current roster of quality locker room guys.

But it 1000% fits the tradition of Ainge selling high, buying low and taking risks.  It was Okafor. I have very little doubt.  Makes total sense.

In any other scenario, it wouldn't make sense for Philly to trade a 20 year old putting up Okafor's stats, but the team has high hopes for Embiid's return and already have another quality big in Noel.   You don't trade a guy like Okafor for a pick that might not even be top 5.   Ainge is all about getting value.  Trading a possible dud pick for a player who might end up being better than anyone in this draft makes perfect sense for Boston.  My only question is what else were we including?  Avery Bradley?

It actually doesn't really make sense.

1) "the player" was reportedly a big star player, which Okafor is far from

2) The team reportedly decided to hold off and see how they go this season - the Sixers are a dud team, so it makes no sense that they'd want to observe team progress.  Maybe they want to hold out on Embiid's progress or hold out until they know where the pick will be, but that doesn't meet what was reportedly said, which quite specifically hinted towards wanting to see how the team goes. 

3) The deal was reportedly considered to be a high risk on both sides - I don't see that to be the case here.  I think trading Okafor for the Nets pick is a moderate risk, but I wouldn't say it's a high risk.  I think trading the Nets pick for Okafor is also not a high risk, since we already know Okafor is not a bust (we don't know if he'll ever be a star, but he's definitely an NBA player)

There are a lot of things said that don't really match up with an Okafor trade, IMHO.

i also wouldn't consider this "selling high" or "buying low" for Ainge.  The pick is almost as likely to fall top 2 as it is to fall between 5-6 - if it does fall #1 then he is ripping himself off.  Okafor is averaging 17 PPG as a rookie, so people are going to get excited about his upside - not exactly what I'd consider buying low.

 

#1 - wrong

#2 - All Ainge said was that the other team decided they didn't want to do it last minute.  Rest is mythmaking.

#3 - Explained it to you in the other thread.  Insane risk for Philly.  Some risk for Boston if they were also including Marcus Smart.

It was Okafor.  Perfect match with what was said by Ainge and it's been reported by essentially every publication at this point that it was Okafor.

FYI: every publication took it from bulpett, so essentially only bulpett has reported this.

So be it.  Nobody has denied it. 

At this point it really doesn't matter.  We're at the whims of the Nets and then the lotto.  Nets have a soft schedule coming up... hopefully they keep losing.  If it ends up top 2, we probably keep the pick.  Hopefully it stays high enough that it stays valuable in a trade.  We wouldn't have landed 32 year old Ray Allen without the #5 pick.

That pick keeps on moving for another First round pick. It truly is the pick that keeps on giving- Jeff Green.

[Snakehead]

So be it.  Nobody has denied it. 

You must believe a lot of rumors and heresay regarding our team and Ainge 100% if this is your bar.

[Ilikesports17]

Just can't imagine that this was Danny's mystery man. Doesn't fit the Celtics tradition or the current roster of quality locker room guys.

But it 1000% fits the tradition of Ainge selling high, buying low and taking risks.  It was Okafor. I have very little doubt.  Makes total sense.

In any other scenario, it wouldn't make sense for Philly to trade a 20 year old putting up Okafor's stats, but the team has high hopes for Embiid's return and already have another quality big in Noel.   You don't trade a guy like Okafor for a pick that might not even be top 5.   Ainge is all about getting value.  Trading a possible dud pick for a player who might end up being better than anyone in this draft makes perfect sense for Boston.  My only question is what else were we including?  Avery Bradley?

It actually doesn't really make sense.

1) "the player" was reportedly a big star player, which Okafor is far from

2) The team reportedly decided to hold off and see how they go this season - the Sixers are a dud team, so it makes no sense that they'd want to observe team progress.  Maybe they want to hold out on Embiid's progress or hold out until they know where the pick will be, but that doesn't meet what was reportedly said, which quite specifically hinted towards wanting to see how the team goes. 

3) The deal was reportedly considered to be a high risk on both sides - I don't see that to be the case here.  I think trading Okafor for the Nets pick is a moderate risk, but I wouldn't say it's a high risk.  I think trading the Nets pick for Okafor is also not a high risk, since we already know Okafor is not a bust (we don't know if he'll ever be a star, but he's definitely an NBA player)

There are a lot of things said that don't really match up with an Okafor trade, IMHO.

i also wouldn't consider this "selling high" or "buying low" for Ainge.  The pick is almost as likely to fall top 2 as it is to fall between 5-6 - if it does fall #1 then he is ripping himself off.  Okafor is averaging 17 PPG as a rookie, so people are going to get excited about his upside - not exactly what I'd consider buying low.

 

#1 - wrong

#2 - All Ainge said was that the other team decided they didn't want to do it last minute.  Rest is mythmaking.

#3 - Explained it to you in the other thread.  Insane risk for Philly.  Some risk for Boston if they were also including Marcus Smart.

It was Okafor.  Perfect match with what was said by Ainge and it's been reported by essentially every publication at this point that it was Okafor.

FYI: every publication took it from bulpett, so essentially only bulpett has reported this.

So be it.  Nobody has denied it. 

At this point it really doesn't matter.  We're at the whims of the Nets and then the lotto.  Nets have a soft schedule coming up... hopefully they keep losing.  If it ends up top 2, we probably keep the pick.  Hopefully it stays high enough that it stays valuable in a trade.  We wouldn't have landed 32 year old Ray Allen without the #5 pick.

Bulpett also reported that Ainge wouldn't trade Brooklyn '16 for Love but you took that as total fiction. However when Bulpett's reporting offered you an opportunity to devalue Boston assets and crank up the value of Phillys assets you've treated it as fact.

you could be right, but you also could be wrong. Let's keep in mind last time you said something about Okafor with such confidence was when you garunteed the Lakers would select him and then trade for Cousins. And here we are with cousins on the Kings and Okafor on the Sixers.

You are speculating just like the rest of us peasants.

On the Ray Allen point that is definitely interesting. I dont remember how that draft was thought of outside of the top 2, but Allen was a 32 year old coming of ankle surgery. So when you look at it that way it certainly seems like a disspointing haul. Especially when you consider we easily won the trade.
 
In 2005 and 2006 Ray Allen averaged more than 25 points a game. In 2005 10 players did that and in 2006 9 did so Allen was a truly elite scorer. Not many 32 year olds perform at Ray Allens level. In fact today, only 2 players scoring more than 20 a game are 30 or older(James and Anthony). Allen was not just "a 32 year old" I think it is misleading to label him that. He was easily one of the ten best scorers in the league. Aquiring Allen would be a lot like acquiring Melo if he had tremendous character.

[MBunge]

Okafor is a victim of the modern obsession with stats.  The kid is a beast on offense and shows amazing coordination, timing and balance.  No matter how slow his feet may be, somebody with those physical tools can easily become at least a mediocre NBA defender.  His last two years, college freshman and NBA rookie, is probably the first time he's every had to play anything like organized defense.

Now, it's going to take him several more years just to get to mediocre defense and that's if he's totally committed to it.

Mike

[PhoSita]

Okafor is a victim of the modern obsession with stats. 

I think it's less about stats and more about the current trends in the league.  Teams more and more get their points from the perimeter, generated by their guards, and teams expect their centers to account for most of the defense in the restricted area.  As a big man, if you can't make life easier for your team on defense and dominant the boards, you'd better be able to stretch the floor and defend multiple positions, otherwise you're "obsolete."

Makes it tough for a guy who is weak defensively and who excels at creating offense inside 15 feet, without the range or agility to play at power forward.


If Okafor came into the league back in 2010 / 2011 when the Lakers were still dominating the league via their super-tall Pau / Bynum / Odom lineups, you wouldn't be hearing about how disappointing Okafor is and how he's just another Al Jefferson.

For that matter, if Al Jefferson had ever gotten to play on a decent team during his prime, you wouldn't be hearing that Big Al comparison as a negative.


Honestly, I'm really hoping that New Orleans finds a way to pair Anthony Davis with a dominant young interior presence so that the vogue in the league shifts back toward big men who create matchup problems with their scoring inside.  Maybe Utah can shift the discussion if they can get a decent point guard and win 50+ games with Hayward / Favors / Gobert.


I like that small-ball and perimeter scoring have become much more popular.  The game benefits from an emphasis on versatility, ball-movement, spacing, and so on.  But it goes too far when people decide there's only one way to construct a team that can win.

[celticsclay]

it would probably be good if we put a bit of a moratorium on the okafor and noel posts. It has long gotten past ridiculous and these conversations never go anywhere. Maybe revisit in the offseason when something could actually happen?

[PhoSita]

it would probably be good if we put a bit of a moratorium on the okafor and noel posts. It has long gotten past ridiculous and these conversations never go anywhere. Maybe revisit in the offseason when something could actually happen?

The Philly situation is one of the most fascinating ones in the league, and Okafor and Noel are polarizing prospects.

They also represent two very enticing trade targets who are likely to be at least somewhat available in the near future.


Not like there's a ton to discuss about the team right now, aside from debating the merits of giving Jerebko and Zeller playing time ahead of Jordan Mickey.