turner should be kept

[feckless]

Turners role on the Celts is basically to function as a big backup point guard. He's a decent option in that role but his inability to shoot makes it hard for him to work well off the ball.

He's a good value given his contract but the Celts could do better. Frankly the playing time should be used on guys who might fit here long term like Hunter, Young, or Rozier.

Most who watch Evan Turner and  especially, Tommy Heinsohn, consider him a near automatic mid-range shooter and a strong finisher at the rim.  By inability to shoot you are referring only to his poor 3 point shooting.  I agree  he is a poor 3 point shooter.  Kind of a spin on your part, leaving out a significant part of what you mean. 

Turner's playing time given to RJ, James or Terry would reduce our number of wins significantly.  Maybe Rozier will grow into that role but it is a tough position too learn at this level and even Rondo needed a period to grow.  I am curious as to where you think we could find a better back-up point, and at what cost.  Keep in mind that Turner guards 3 positions with some success.

One of the things that makes this team work is the number of options Brad has at each position --Turner's 3 position versatility, similar to Shawn Livingston as someone else mentioned, provides a lot of different options for the coach.

Yay! Tommy considers Turner Mr. Automatic from the mid-range.

So I guess the question is, should 36% from the mid-range be considered automatic?

I'll wait for your thoughts.


Anyways...


I think people who are still supporting Turner are reliving what he showed during the last month, month and half or so of last season in which his offense was probably at the best of his career. Problem is that this season, at least so far, he hasn't been even close to it.

This year he's been quite bad for us. The ONLY saving grace he has is that he's been better than the alternative of what we have currently in the roster. Take that to mean a ball-handler off the bench.

Other than that, he's been quite poor for us this season.

36% is not good but where did you get that number?  Turner has had some stinkers but has also won some games for us and brought us back in others.  I trust Brad's judgment and think Turner's value is supported by the situations in which the coach regularly uses him.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Turners role on the Celts is basically to function as a big backup point guard. He's a decent option in that role but his inability to shoot makes it hard for him to work well off the ball.

He's a good value given his contract but the Celts could do better. Frankly the playing time should be used on guys who might fit here long term like Hunter, Young, or Rozier.

Most who watch Evan Turner and  especially, Tommy Heinsohn, consider him a near automatic mid-range shooter and a strong finisher at the rim.  By inability to shoot you are referring only to his poor 3 point shooting.  I agree  he is a poor 3 point shooter.  Kind of a spin on your part, leaving out a significant part of what you mean. 

Turner's playing time given to RJ, James or Terry would reduce our number of wins significantly.  Maybe Rozier will grow into that role but it is a tough position too learn at this level and even Rondo needed a period to grow.  I am curious as to where you think we could find a better back-up point, and at what cost.  Keep in mind that Turner guards 3 positions with some success.

One of the things that makes this team work is the number of options Brad has at each position --Turner's 3 position versatility, similar to Shawn Livingston as someone else mentioned, provides a lot of different options for the coach.

Yay! Tommy considers Turner Mr. Automatic from the mid-range.

So I guess the question is, should 36% from the mid-range be considered automatic?

I'll wait for your thoughts.


Anyways...


I think people who are still supporting Turner are reliving what he showed during the last month, month and half or so of last season in which his offense was probably at the best of his career. Problem is that this season, at least so far, he hasn't been even close to it.

This year he's been quite bad for us. The ONLY saving grace he has is that he's been better than the alternative of what we have currently in the roster. Take that to mean a ball-handler off the bench.

Other than that, he's been quite poor for us this season.

36% is not good but where did you get that number?  Turner has had some stinkers but has also won some games for us and brought us back in others.  I trust Brad's judgment and think Turner's value is supported by the situations in which the coach regularly uses him.

I use vorped and looked a the 2's out side the paint area to give a quick estimate.

Again, you can't look at Turner getting playing time as an indicament of him playing well. He's simply the best option we have currently. Doesn't mean it's good, just not as bad as the alternative.

When we don't have Thomas or Turner in the floor, our offense is terrible. When Turner is on the floor (and Thomas is off) the offense then improves drastically compared to when they're both off. Worth pointing out that improving drastically still doesn't put it in a range of good offense for us. But given than there's no better option at the moment, he has value in that role.

The problem is when Turner and Thomas are off... who's in the floor directing traffic?

Rookies and 2nd years that don't know how to run an offense, and Avery Bradley... and we all know how that's gone. So, that Turner stabilizes things a bit is not really that much of an achievement.

[feckless]

Turners role on the Celts is basically to function as a big backup point guard. He's a decent option in that role but his inability to shoot makes it hard for him to work well off the ball.

He's a good value given his contract but the Celts could do better. Frankly the playing time should be used on guys who might fit here long term like Hunter, Young, or Rozier.

Most who watch Evan Turner and  especially, Tommy Heinsohn, consider him a near automatic mid-range shooter and a strong finisher at the rim.  By inability to shoot you are referring only to his poor 3 point shooting.  I agree  he is a poor 3 point shooter.  Kind of a spin on your part, leaving out a significant part of what you mean. 

Turner's playing time given to RJ, James or Terry would reduce our number of wins significantly.  Maybe Rozier will grow into that role but it is a tough position too learn at this level and even Rondo needed a period to grow.  I am curious as to where you think we could find a better back-up point, and at what cost.  Keep in mind that Turner guards 3 positions with some success.

One of the things that makes this team work is the number of options Brad has at each position --Turner's 3 position versatility, similar to Shawn Livingston as someone else mentioned, provides a lot of different options for the coach.

Yay! Tommy considers Turner Mr. Automatic from the mid-range.

So I guess the question is, should 36% from the mid-range be considered automatic?

I'll wait for your thoughts.


Anyways...


I think people who are still supporting Turner are reliving what he showed during the last month, month and half or so of last season in which his offense was probably at the best of his career. Problem is that this season, at least so far, he hasn't been even close to it.

This year he's been quite bad for us. The ONLY saving grace he has is that he's been better than the alternative of what we have currently in the roster. Take that to mean a ball-handler off the bench.

Other than that, he's been quite poor for us this season.

36% is not good but where did you get that number?  Turner has had some stinkers but has also won some games for us and brought us back in others.  I trust Brad's judgment and think Turner's value is supported by the situations in which the coach regularly uses him.

I use vorped and looked a the 2's out side the paint area to give a quick estimate.

Again, you can't look at Turner getting playing time as an indicament of him playing well. He's simply the best option we have currently. Doesn't mean it's good, just not as bad as the alternative.

When we don't have Thomas or Turner in the floor, our offense is terrible. When Turner is on the floor (and Thomas is off) the offense then improves drastically compared to when they're both off. Worth pointing out that improving drastically still doesn't put it in a range of good offense for us. But given than there's no better option at the moment, he has value in that role.

The problem is when Turner and Thomas are off... who's in the floor directing traffic?

Rookies and 2nd years that don't know how to run an offense, and Avery Bradley... and we all know how that's gone. So, that Turner stabilizes things a bit is not really that much of an achievement.

I can't disagree with much of your recent post except to add that I like watching this team, they are fun, play hard and sometimes as a team. Plus defense wins games. Turner contributes to this. That puts Turner as a needed, valuable player in his role at this time.  I do not believe any coach in Turner's past has used him as a point or back-up point ...so possibly if surrounded by better talent he could be a useful to valuable back-up point guard at a higher level, a la Shawn Livingston.  Having watched Shawn a great deal I think Turner may be the better offensive player.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Turners role on the Celts is basically to function as a big backup point guard. He's a decent option in that role but his inability to shoot makes it hard for him to work well off the ball.

He's a good value given his contract but the Celts could do better. Frankly the playing time should be used on guys who might fit here long term like Hunter, Young, or Rozier.

Most who watch Evan Turner and  especially, Tommy Heinsohn, consider him a near automatic mid-range shooter and a strong finisher at the rim.  By inability to shoot you are referring only to his poor 3 point shooting.  I agree  he is a poor 3 point shooter.  Kind of a spin on your part, leaving out a significant part of what you mean. 

Turner's playing time given to RJ, James or Terry would reduce our number of wins significantly.  Maybe Rozier will grow into that role but it is a tough position too learn at this level and even Rondo needed a period to grow.  I am curious as to where you think we could find a better back-up point, and at what cost.  Keep in mind that Turner guards 3 positions with some success.

One of the things that makes this team work is the number of options Brad has at each position --Turner's 3 position versatility, similar to Shawn Livingston as someone else mentioned, provides a lot of different options for the coach.

Yay! Tommy considers Turner Mr. Automatic from the mid-range.

So I guess the question is, should 36% from the mid-range be considered automatic?

I'll wait for your thoughts.


Anyways...


I think people who are still supporting Turner are reliving what he showed during the last month, month and half or so of last season in which his offense was probably at the best of his career. Problem is that this season, at least so far, he hasn't been even close to it.

This year he's been quite bad for us. The ONLY saving grace he has is that he's been better than the alternative of what we have currently in the roster. Take that to mean a ball-handler off the bench.

Other than that, he's been quite poor for us this season.

36% is not good but where did you get that number?  Turner has had some stinkers but has also won some games for us and brought us back in others.  I trust Brad's judgment and think Turner's value is supported by the situations in which the coach regularly uses him.

I use vorped and looked a the 2's out side the paint area to give a quick estimate.

Again, you can't look at Turner getting playing time as an indicament of him playing well. He's simply the best option we have currently. Doesn't mean it's good, just not as bad as the alternative.

When we don't have Thomas or Turner in the floor, our offense is terrible. When Turner is on the floor (and Thomas is off) the offense then improves drastically compared to when they're both off. Worth pointing out that improving drastically still doesn't put it in a range of good offense for us. But given than there's no better option at the moment, he has value in that role.

The problem is when Turner and Thomas are off... who's in the floor directing traffic?

Rookies and 2nd years that don't know how to run an offense, and Avery Bradley... and we all know how that's gone. So, that Turner stabilizes things a bit is not really that much of an achievement.

I can't disagree with much of your recent post except to add that I like watching this team, they are fun, play hard and sometimes as a team. Plus defense wins games. Turner contributes to this. That puts Turner as a needed, valuable player in his role at this time.  I do not believe any coach in Turner's past has used him as a point or back-up point ...so possibly if surrounded by better talent he could be a useful to valuable back-up point guard a la Shawn Livingston. 

I don't have anything against Turner in particular, and if he can get back to the level with which he ended the season last year, he'd be very good for us. But by the same token I'm more than ready to move from him, but considering that we still have some development to go through with Smart/Rozier and what not, I'm all that hasty for it.

But that doesn't mean that Turner should be looked at as a godsend because he really hasn't been playing all that well so far. Or well at all for that matter. But his current role has some good value for us for the time being simply because he might just be the better alternative right now. If he can take that last game from the Lakers and build on it, that'd be good (taking the ball more to the basket). We'll see.

[rollie mass]

last 10 games shot .484% 4.8 rebounds and 4.9 assists per 27min 10.2 ppg-last 5 games .523%5.6 assists in 25min 11.2ppg
.430 for 2015-2016 so far

[feckless]

Turners role on the Celts is basically to function as a big backup point guard. He's a decent option in that role but his inability to shoot makes it hard for him to work well off the ball.

He's a good value given his contract but the Celts could do better. Frankly the playing time should be used on guys who might fit here long term like Hunter, Young, or Rozier.

Most who watch Evan Turner and  especially, Tommy Heinsohn, consider him a near automatic mid-range shooter and a strong finisher at the rim.  By inability to shoot you are referring only to his poor 3 point shooting.  I agree  he is a poor 3 point shooter.  Kind of a spin on your part, leaving out a significant part of what you mean. 

Turner's playing time given to RJ, James or Terry would reduce our number of wins significantly.  Maybe Rozier will grow into that role but it is a tough position too learn at this level and even Rondo needed a period to grow.  I am curious as to where you think we could find a better back-up point, and at what cost.  Keep in mind that Turner guards 3 positions with some success.

One of the things that makes this team work is the number of options Brad has at each position --Turner's 3 position versatility, similar to Shawn Livingston as someone else mentioned, provides a lot of different options for the coach.

Yay! Tommy considers Turner Mr. Automatic from the mid-range.

So I guess the question is, should 36% from the mid-range be considered automatic?

I'll wait for your thoughts.


Anyways...


I think people who are still supporting Turner are reliving what he showed during the last month, month and half or so of last season in which his offense was probably at the best of his career. Problem is that this season, at least so far, he hasn't been even close to it.

This year he's been quite bad for us. The ONLY saving grace he has is that he's been better than the alternative of what we have currently in the roster. Take that to mean a ball-handler off the bench.

Other than that, he's been quite poor for us this season.

36% is not good but where did you get that number?  Turner has had some stinkers but has also won some games for us and brought us back in others.  I trust Brad's judgment and think Turner's value is supported by the situations in which the coach regularly uses him.

I use vorped and looked a the 2's out side the paint area to give a quick estimate.

Again, you can't look at Turner getting playing time as an indicament of him playing well. He's simply the best option we have currently. Doesn't mean it's good, just not as bad as the alternative.

When we don't have Thomas or Turner in the floor, our offense is terrible. When Turner is on the floor (and Thomas is off) the offense then improves drastically compared to when they're both off. Worth pointing out that improving drastically still doesn't put it in a range of good offense for us. But given than there's no better option at the moment, he has value in that role.

The problem is when Turner and Thomas are off... who's in the floor directing traffic?

Rookies and 2nd years that don't know how to run an offense, and Avery Bradley... and we all know how that's gone. So, that Turner stabilizes things a bit is not really that much of an achievement.

I can't disagree with much of your recent post except to add that I like watching this team, they are fun, play hard and sometimes as a team. Plus defense wins games. Turner contributes to this. That puts Turner as a needed, valuable player in his role at this time.  I do not believe any coach in Turner's past has used him as a point or back-up point ...so possibly if surrounded by better talent he could be a useful to valuable back-up point guard a la Shawn Livingston. 

I don't have anything against Turner in particular, and if he can get back to the level with which he ended the season last year, he'd be very good for us. But by the same token I'm more than ready to move from him, but considering that we still have some development to go through with Smart/Rozier and what not, I'm all that hasty for it.

But that doesn't mean that Turner should be looked at as a godsend because he really hasn't been playing all that well so far. Or well at all for that matter. But his current role has some good value for us for the time being simply because he might just be the better alternative right now. If he can take that last game from the Lakers and build on it, that'd be good (taking the ball more to the basket). We'll see.

Fair enough!  I think we are close in our opinions--with you seeing more bad than good and I see more good than bad--but I certainly have seen some poor moments, poor games.

Did Evan ever play the point before last year?

[CelticPride2016]

celticpride TP-loved your post and thanks for compliment--i have one attachment rj but this team plays better than its parts
rozier i haven't warmed to yet,mudiay,d'angelo russell he's not
i don't think we have a point guard outside isaiah-
the goal for danny a world championship nothing else
 i'm glad i love good basketball with hardnosed defence,passing and making the right play
back to turner-rozier isn't readsy,rj is being brought along and marcus still needs help
if isaiah goes down turner is critical
keep posting

Thank you. My biggest flaw might be writing too much. I don't expect anyone to sit through these long ones. It's easier for me to get all the thoughts down at once.

I like the way you are able to break down player strengths and weaknesses. RJ Hunter has definitely been a revelation. Bradley showed that good shooters might need time to get rid of the jitters. There is some doubt, imho, whether Hunter is a pure shooter or volume chucker. He and Young came into the league with reputations as sharp shooters. I believe it with Young but need more evidence with RJ.

If most rookies shoot worse than what their abilities would usually predict, then it is the other attributes that may tell us whether someone truly has NBA potential.

Hunter versus Young has RJ winning in every other category than jump shots from my eye test. He's always in the right place. He has a long reach. Is that basketball i.q.? Sullinger is extremely smart. He makes plays based on second nature. Hunter seems to understand things that Young doesn't. I think both of them would be great players to have if they hit their potential. RJ could perhaps play some pg. Young could possibly play sf. If RJ and Young develop, they would complement the shorter guards everyone seems to agree are not the problem and possibly starter caliber for championship teams.

Bradley has improved because each year he has fixed some flaw in his game. He is still pathetic as a passer. Tommy points it out. If Heinsohn gets negative, that has to mean something. I am not sure how Bradley could improve with it. He has gotten much better at dribbling and finishing at the hoop. Avery is almost the perfect player. If he figures out passing, he seems to be an all-star. Great players can emerge out of nowhere or close to nowhere. Nowitski and Pierce were the two best players in their draft at nine and ten.

Should Danny have known Fab Melo would never be good enough to play in the NBA? Why do people assume James Young will get better? Just because someone is tall and can shoot doesn't mean they have a great chance to succeed in the NBA. There are simply too many people in the world compared to NBA player slots.

Brad Stevens knows how to tap into each player's talents.

If anyone could turn Turner (no pun intended) into an above average force on a good to great team, it is Stevens.

Turner is automatic from 15 to 17 feet. He also has ice in his veins driving to the hoop. I'm actually feeling a bit embarrassed ripping into his game.

We are at Brooklyn today for an afternoon matinee. We are reliant on Evan Turner. If there is a real debate whether Isaiah should start or come off the bench, the only other option is matching Turner with Smart and Bradley.

I will try to stay open-minded with Evan's game and not limit his ceiling. Maybe he can improve on his dribbling. Maybe he can watch film and truly figure out why he makes some of his worst plays. Avery Bradley needs to look at film of his own flaws. He is telegraphing passes.

This is the kind of stuff I'd love to witness or hear about. I am curious what goes on in practice.

I used to be hard on Doc for not being good at developing players. I do recall he spent extra time with Avery Bradley one Summer and it seemed to pay off the next season.

If anyone can develop Turner into a borderline all-star, it's Brad.

The problem is once the season starts, there really isn't much time for practicing. Maybe this is why Rozier, Mickey, and Young don't play much.

It is a good sign for RJ's future that he got some important minutes. Marcus Smart was injured, however, and Brad had no choice.

Brad also gave Rozier a bit of time early in the season, something Doc would never have done. He does not look ready and is probably a tweener.

I liked Phil Pressey because his presence gave the offense a feeling of the universe being rebalanced. Isaiah does that. We are hopeful Smart can do it. We know Avery still can't.

Maybe we could use a Dirk Minnifield if you remember that guy?

I have no problem with Evan Turner as a person. He reminds me of Rick Fox. Fox used to zone out. He seemed to become a very good player, though, later in his career with the Lakers.

I want a point guard like Tiny Archibald when he was on the C's. They don't have to be that good, but Evan Turner at pg always seems to be a crap shoot.

Yet again, I have always been a complainer with the center position since the Perk trade. However, the league changed. I don't know what would happen if a new Shaq arrives, some old-school Chamberlain who can't be stopped in the paint. Perhaps it is not only the center position evolving, but also point guard or heck, all five positions. Maybe Evan Turner is a new form of pg which won't be clear until years later, just like the league seems to have passed by old-school centers such as Steamer and Asik. Or Rondo. Rajon Rondo might still be the same guy able to do what he did that we all appreciated, but that the league has passed by Rajon Rondo. I am willing to learn. If Turner can develop into a great player, I will gladly accept that I had no clue with what I was thinking.

I may be opinionated, but I realize as a basketball blogger wannabe I too have a ceiling. I could be the Evan Turner for this sort of thing. If so, maybe I should believe in him and trust that he is developing, that his story is not over.

We are going for wins. Young players are going to have to show basic competence in all aspects of the game. Turner is up there on the roster for point guard skills. The questions I have are what is his flaws and can they be corrected.

I do it with Isaiah. Can he defend good enough to justify major minutes?

David Lee. Is he willing to accept he is older now and needs to adapt?

Amir Johnson is the best player on the team. Too bad he has plantar fasciitis.

[rollie mass]

celtspride---a big long T__________________P--wish they televised practice
try looking at chris dunn providence 6-4 best quard in draft
-he is what i think a point guard should be height ,length loves d, strong
danny just might draft him-
young proved his 3pt shooting in maine not kentucky
where rj was go to guy that got all the defensive attention
rj just scored 28 in maine with good% but all the intangibles shown with celts were not there-and he was winded and had to get himself subbed off-was he sick or has he a allergy to d league