Player stats since the all-star break

[LarBrd33]

Good post... couple things I would add:

Crowder: 11.9 pts, 5.9 reb, 1.6 ast, 0.8 stl, 40 / 28 / 77 in  27.7 mpg

Not bad production, although he really needs to shoot better from deep to keep playing that way offensively. Good rebounding and defense help, but if he could nudge up to 45/33/80 he'd have a much better chance of keeping those kind of minutes. Something like this would be worthy and shouldn't be out of reach:

14 pts, 7 reb, 2 ast, 1 stl, 45 / 33 / 80 in 30 mpg

The other thing that jumps out at me is IT's efficiency. His splits look a little rough until you figure that he's scoring 8 points per 40 from the free throw line, where he shoots 86%.

Whoops... accidentally forget Crowder.  I'll add him

That's a lot of players averaging double-digit points.  Should help their trade value.   Crowder, Jerebko, and Bass are free agents, though.

[LarBrd33]

It's almost like this team could use a very smart pg to get them all better shots and then rebound their misses for them.

I think the offense opened up once they started sharing the ball with each other.  We have 6 guys averaging double-digit points... that doesn't include Smart, Olynyk or Sullinger... arguably our three best young chips.

[mctyson]

Just thought it would be interesting to look at.  Boston has been 15-11 since the all-star break.  Here's the player stats during that time: 

PG - Bradley - 15.1 points, 4.1 rebounds, 2.1 assists, 1.4 steals 42%/36%/71% in 33.7mpg
SG - Smart - 9.1 points, 4.1 rebounds, 2.6 assists, 1.8 steals, 36%/31%/65% in 30.3mpg
SF - Turner - 11.1 points, 5.8 rebounds, 6.8 assists, 1.1 steals, 43%/27%/73% in 31.3mpg
PF - Bass - 12.7 points, 6.2 rebounds, 1.7 assists, 0.4 steals 55%/35%/77% in 29.2mpg
C - Zeller - 11.3 points, 6 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 0.2 steals, 54%/0%/81% in 23.3mpg
------
SF - Crowder - 11.7 points, 5.9 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 0.8 steals 40%/28%/77% in 27.7mpg
PG - Thomas - 18.9 points, 2.1 rebounds, 5.3 assists, 0.6 steals, 40%/33%/86% in 26mpg
PF - Olynyk - 8.9 points, 3.4 rebounds, 1.8 assists, 1 steal, 40%/32%/64% in 19.1mpg
PF - Jerebko - 6.9 points, 4.8 rebounds, 1 assists, 0.5 steals, 42%/39%/88% in 18.2mpg

Nobody else really relevant. 

I left out blocks, because we're dead-last in the league.  Not a single player averaging a single block. 

Gotta say I'm most impressed with Brandon Bass, Turner and Zeller.   Thomas obviously gets a lot of points, but so far he hasn't done it efficiently.   Interesting how much production Zeller has in his minutes.  He's averaging like 17 and 10 per 36 minutes.  Bass has quietly been really solid.   Turner is getting stats all across the board.

If Turner stopped taking 3s his FG% would skyrocket and people would worship him.  He already shoots higher than AB.

Thomas has highest PER on team so I wouldn't say he is inefficient.

Zeller has been one of the best steals in the NBA over the past few seasons. 

[mmmmm]

Just thought it would be interesting to look at.  Boston has been 15-11 since the all-star break.  Here's the player stats during that time: 

PG - Bradley - 15.1 points, 4.1 rebounds, 2.1 assists, 1.4 steals 42%/36%/71% in 33.7mpg
SG - Smart - 9.1 points, 4.1 rebounds, 2.6 assists, 1.8 steals, 36%/31%/65% in 30.3mpg
SF - Turner - 11.1 points, 5.8 rebounds, 6.8 assists, 1.1 steals, 43%/27%/73% in 31.3mpg
PF - Bass - 12.7 points, 6.2 rebounds, 1.7 assists, 0.4 steals 55%/35%/77% in 29.2mpg
C - Zeller - 11.3 points, 6 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 0.2 steals, 54%/0%/81% in 23.3mpg
------
SF - Crowder - 11.7 points, 5.9 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 0.8 steals 40%/28%/77% in 27.7mpg
PG - Thomas - 18.9 points, 2.1 rebounds, 5.3 assists, 0.6 steals, 40%/33%/86% in 26mpg
PF - Olynyk - 8.9 points, 3.4 rebounds, 1.8 assists, 1 steal, 40%/32%/64% in 19.1mpg
PF - Jerebko - 6.9 points, 4.8 rebounds, 1 assists, 0.5 steals, 42%/39%/88% in 18.2mpg

Nobody else really relevant. 

I left out blocks, because we're dead-last in the league.  Not a single player averaging a single block. 

Gotta say I'm most impressed with Brandon Bass, Turner and Zeller.   Thomas obviously gets a lot of points, but so far he hasn't done it efficiently.   Interesting how much production Zeller has in his minutes.  He's averaging like 17 and 10 per 36 minutes.  Bass has quietly been really solid.   Turner is getting stats all across the board.

How, exactly, are you measuring 'efficiently'?

If you are just looking at FG%, then that is a very poor way to look at scoring OR shooting efficiency.

TS% or points-per-FGA are much better measures of scoring efficiency.

eFG% is a much better measure of shooting efficiency.

And all these efficiencies are best compared to similar roles on the floor, since comparing the FG% of guys who take primarily shots from 3 feet in to guys who take a lot of 3PT shots is, well, not very useful.

As far as shooting goes, since the AS break, Thomas' eFG% is 48.3%, just a hair under Bradley at 48.5% and well above Turner (45.1%) and Smart (43.5%).

As far as scoring goes, Thomas' TS% is a fantastic .568, indicative of the fact that he scores VERY efficiently because he gets to the FT line so much.   Of the current roster, only Bass (.596), Datome (.579) and Zeller (.577) have a higher TS% than Thomas since the break.   Of our various guards, he is way ahead of Bradley, down at an 'okay' .496 and miles more efficient than Turner (.475), Smart (.469) and Pressey (.451).

Other measures of scoring 'efficiency' also heavily slant towards Isaiah.  He scores 26.1 points per 36 minutes and 36.4 points per 100 possessions while on the floor.  No one on our current roster is remotely close to those numbers.   Heck, only a handful of players in the entire ASSOCIATION have higher numbers.  Not only is HE scoring far more per possession than anyone else, but when he is on/off the floor, our _team_ scoring per possession is like night and day.

Team ratings, Thomas ON: (Since 2/22)
ORtg:  112.4 points/100
DRtg:  109.1
NetRtg:  +3.3

Thomas OFF: (Since 2/22)
ORtg:  101.4
DRtg:  101.2
NetRtg:  +.2

The obvious "con" is that the defense has been worse with Thomas on the floor.  But not as much as the offense is worse with him off the floor.

I don't know if the defensive issues are entirely all Thomas' fault, though.  The 5-man unit that Stevens has used Thomas the most in is a "small ball" configuration of Isaiah, Avery, Evan, Jae and Bass.  That unit has a horrible DRtg of 116.2 points per 100.  Just replacing Bass with Zeller in that lineup and the DRtg improves by 7 points!   

All of the main usage 5-man units with Thomas in it that have Zeller or Olynyk (or both) in have much better DRtgs and better NetRtgs overall than that one small ball unit.  In fact they are all below his overall DRtg value above.  So it is just the weight of that one "small ball" unit that is dragging his defensive number up.   

The offensive performance of that small ball unit has been good, 118.7, but that's a NetRtg of just +2.  I just don't think that "small ball" is working for us as well enough to justify how much Brad uses it.

It's a small sample size, just 27 minutes of usage, but for what it's worth our best 5-man unit since the trade deadline has been IT+AB+ET+BB+TZ, with a monstrous NetRtg of +21.6 points per 100 possessions.

No other unit we have played over 25 minutes comes close to that one.

[BDeCosta26]

Nobody doing enough to convince they can be part of Celtics core going forward.

Is anyone establishing themselves as a top 20 player or an all-star? No. But the core of a contending team isn't just one or two elite players. Every championship contender has guys who excel in the roles they play, and those guys are the difference between a contender and a champion. DA has done a fantastic job with what he's had to work with while not spending any of our best chips or making any bad deals.

Bradley, Smart, IT, and Crowder have shown enough to be a part of the C's next great team. Hell, even KO, with his unique skill set, has played pretty well in the 20ish minutes a game he plays. Well enough to continue developing unless the right trade shows itself.

Bradley could even start on a contender right now with a dynamic PG like in OKC, Memphis, Portland or the Clippers. If KD was healthy and you replace Waiters with AB, they become much more dangerous. Smart is a rookie who is playing well while staying within the role he's been given. Anyone who thinks IT can't get starter-like minutes (I.e. Jamal Crawford) on a contender is just crazy. Crowder is a prototypical glue guy who, along with Smart, AB and IT are the reasons we've managed to be 18-11 since the break.

My point is, I totally agree no ones really separated themselves from the pack (though you could make a case for IT) and we are in need of a star who can win us games against the best teams. But this team has played really well since the ASG. And I think some of these guys have proven they belong here when were good again.

[colincb]

Just thought it would be interesting to look at.  Boston has been 15-11 since the all-star break.  Here's the player stats during that time: 

PG - Bradley - 15.1 points, 4.1 rebounds, 2.1 assists, 1.4 steals 42%/36%/71% in 33.7mpg
SG - Smart - 9.1 points, 4.1 rebounds, 2.6 assists, 1.8 steals, 36%/31%/65% in 30.3mpg
SF - Turner - 11.1 points, 5.8 rebounds, 6.8 assists, 1.1 steals, 43%/27%/73% in 31.3mpg
PF - Bass - 12.7 points, 6.2 rebounds, 1.7 assists, 0.4 steals 55%/35%/77% in 29.2mpg
C - Zeller - 11.3 points, 6 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 0.2 steals, 54%/0%/81% in 23.3mpg
------
SF - Crowder - 11.7 points, 5.9 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 0.8 steals 40%/28%/77% in 27.7mpg
PG - Thomas - 18.9 points, 2.1 rebounds, 5.3 assists, 0.6 steals, 40%/33%/86% in 26mpg
PF - Olynyk - 8.9 points, 3.4 rebounds, 1.8 assists, 1 steal, 40%/32%/64% in 19.1mpg
PF - Jerebko - 6.9 points, 4.8 rebounds, 1 assists, 0.5 steals, 42%/39%/88% in 18.2mpg

Nobody else really relevant. 

I left out blocks, because we're dead-last in the league.  Not a single player averaging a single block. 

Gotta say I'm most impressed with Brandon Bass, Turner and Zeller.   Thomas obviously gets a lot of points, but so far he hasn't done it efficiently.   Interesting how much production Zeller has in his minutes.  He's averaging like 17 and 10 per 36 minutes.  Bass has quietly been really solid.   Turner is getting stats all across the board.

How, exactly, are you measuring 'efficiently'?

If you are just looking at FG%, then that is a very poor way to look at scoring OR shooting efficiency.

TS% or points-per-FGA are much better measures of scoring efficiency.

eFG% is a much better measure of shooting efficiency.

And all these efficiencies are best compared to similar roles on the floor, since comparing the FG% of guys who take primarily shots from 3 feet in to guys who take a lot of 3PT shots is, well, not very useful.

As far as shooting goes, since the AS break, Thomas' eFG% is 48.3%, just a hair under Bradley at 48.5% and well above Turner (45.1%) and Smart (43.5%).

As far as scoring goes, Thomas' TS% is a fantastic .568, indicative of the fact that he scores VERY efficiently because he gets to the FT line so much.   Of the current roster, only Bass (.596), Datome (.579) and Zeller (.577) have a higher TS% than Thomas since the break.   Of our various guards, he is way ahead of Bradley, down at an 'okay' .496 and miles more efficient than Turner (.475), Smart (.469) and Pressey (.451).

Other measures of scoring 'efficiency' also heavily slant towards Isaiah.  He scores 26.1 points per 36 minutes and 36.4 points per 100 possessions while on the floor.  No one on our current roster is remotely close to those numbers.   Heck, only a handful of players in the entire ASSOCIATION have higher numbers.  Not only is HE scoring far more per possession than anyone else, but when he is on/off the floor, our _team_ scoring per possession is like night and day.

Team ratings, Thomas ON: (Since 2/22)
ORtg:  112.4 points/100
DRtg:  109.1
NetRtg:  +3.3

Thomas OFF: (Since 2/22)
ORtg:  101.4
DRtg:  101.2
NetRtg:  +.2

The obvious "con" is that the defense has been worse with Thomas on the floor.  But not as much as the offense is worse with him off the floor.

I don't know if the defensive issues are entirely all Thomas' fault, though.  The 5-man unit that Stevens has used Thomas the most in is a "small ball" configuration of Isaiah, Avery, Evan, Jae and Bass.  That unit has a horrible DRtg of 116.2 points per 100.  Just replacing Bass with Zeller in that lineup and the DRtg improves by 7 points!   

All of the main usage 5-man units with Thomas in it that have Zeller or Olynyk (or both) in have much better DRtgs and better NetRtgs overall than that one small ball unit.  In fact they are all below his overall DRtg value above.  So it is just the weight of that one "small ball" unit that is dragging his defensive number up.   

The offensive performance of that small ball unit has been good, 118.7, but that's a NetRtg of just +2.  I just don't think that "small ball" is working for us as well enough to justify how much Brad uses it.

It's a small sample size, just 27 minutes of usage, but for what it's worth our best 5-man unit since the trade deadline has been IT+AB+ET+BB+TZ, with a monstrous NetRtg of +21.6 points per 100 possessions.

No other unit we have played over 25 minutes comes close to that one.

TP. Thomas has always been a consistently efficient scorer with a True Shooting % (TS%) of .575 for his career.  He's 5th among qualifying PGs this year. Defense is his issue, though we had defense in the backcourt already and we really needed offense when we were losing close games earlier in the season, especially in the 4th quarter.

FG% is pretty useless since it weighs all FGs made the same.  Effective FG% (eFG%) gives extra weight to 3 point FGs made, and TS% also factors free throw shooting into its equation.

[Al91]

Great post, OP. I'd really like to see comparisons between the Celtics and teams like the Hawks and the Spurs.

I think it's easy to look at these guys and their numbers and say none are capable of being starters on a championship team. I think a team like OKC would love to have AB as their SG and I'd go as far as to say POR, NOLA, and LAC would too. I'm not really trying to make a point here. All I'm trying to say is that I'm really impressed with what Stevens and these guys have done since half the roster wasn't here until after 2-3 months into the season.

[coffee425]

Just thought it would be interesting to look at.  Boston has been 15-11 since the all-star break.  Here's the player stats during that time: 

PG - Bradley - 15.1 points, 4.1 rebounds, 2.1 assists, 1.4 steals 42%/36%/71% in 33.7mpg
SG - Smart - 9.1 points, 4.1 rebounds, 2.6 assists, 1.8 steals, 36%/31%/65% in 30.3mpg
SF - Turner - 11.1 points, 5.8 rebounds, 6.8 assists, 1.1 steals, 43%/27%/73% in 31.3mpg
PF - Bass - 12.7 points, 6.2 rebounds, 1.7 assists, 0.4 steals 55%/35%/77% in 29.2mpg
C - Zeller - 11.3 points, 6 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 0.2 steals, 54%/0%/81% in 23.3mpg
------
SF - Crowder - 11.7 points, 5.9 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 0.8 steals 40%/28%/77% in 27.7mpg
PG - Thomas - 18.9 points, 2.1 rebounds, 5.3 assists, 0.6 steals, 40%/33%/86% in 26mpg
PF - Olynyk - 8.9 points, 3.4 rebounds, 1.8 assists, 1 steal, 40%/32%/64% in 19.1mpg
PF - Jerebko - 6.9 points, 4.8 rebounds, 1 assists, 0.5 steals, 42%/39%/88% in 18.2mpg

Nobody else really relevant. 

I left out blocks, because we're dead-last in the league.  Not a single player averaging a single block. 

Gotta say I'm most impressed with Brandon Bass, Turner and Zeller.   Thomas obviously gets a lot of points, but so far he hasn't done it efficiently.   Interesting how much production Zeller has in his minutes.  He's averaging like 17 and 10 per 36 minutes.  Bass has quietly been really solid.   Turner is getting stats all across the board.

TP.
Would like to note that the starters are avg 59.3 and the bench is at 46.4... I know this can sometimes be criticized, but I love the offensive balance. Wave after wave of decent offense

[DarkAzcura]

Good rounding up of the stats. Only issue is that you said Thomas hasn't been doing it efficiently. Raw FG% is pretty meaningless.

EDIT: I see a couple guys already took care of that point.