why did Rondo come back?

[Enzzo]

Not sure what's worse: 1.) Watching the Celtics barely scrape by or 2.) Seeing some of these responses.

No self respecting organization is going to tell its players to play anything less than 100%. No matter the circumstance or the endgame. Danny will never go to Rondo and say "Hey, take it down a notch. Lets loose this next one."

Yes, it would help us to loose more, that's fairly obvious. But what does Celtic Pride mean now? Well we can pretend the next 3-4 years didn't happen so we can get lucky in drafting?

People need to stop complaining, the celtics will play 100% every night and they will not aim to loose. Whinning and complaining on message boards will not change that. Root for the win, accept the loss.

[LooseCannon]

No one wants Rondo to fail. I just want people to accept the truth that without KG PP etc the guy is a glorified role player. He plays hard most of the time but he can't create his own shot. He really isn't that good! I want him to be healthy and succeed just not in Boston. Send him to a place where he will be surrounded by good players that can create shots and could benefit from a PG like Rondo.

"Shot creation" is an over-rated skill.

Depends on how you define it.

Creating good looks for teammates based on your actions is immensely valuable. LeBron James makes things so easy for his teammates, Dwight Howard in the 1 in 4 out was a monster at creating room for his team to get great shots, etc.

Getting shots for yourself is overvalued more often than not. Shooting a good percentage on relatively low value looks is immensely over rated. (Hi LaMarcus!)

I'm talking about Carmelo Anthony-ish shot "creation" that on further analysis looks like taking shots that your teammates could have taken.

Shot creation seems to be about the ability to score in isolation, but an isolation is pretty much the worst play.  I'd rather see a team built around moving the ball to get a lot of open long twos (assuming you have players who can make that shot) than a team built around leading the league in isolation plays.

[BballTim]

No one wants Rondo to fail. I just want people to accept the truth that without KG PP etc the guy is a glorified role player. He plays hard most of the time but he can't create his own shot. He really isn't that good! I want him to be healthy and succeed just not in Boston. Send him to a place where he will be surrounded by good players that can create shots and could benefit from a PG like Rondo.

  KG can't create his own shot. Neither could Ray. Bass isn't that great at it either. Rondo creates shots for other people. It's a very valuable skill, and something that was completely absent from your in depth analysis of Rondo (good defender) and Chalmers (best clutch shooter in the league).

[Fafnir]

No one wants Rondo to fail. I just want people to accept the truth that without KG PP etc the guy is a glorified role player. He plays hard most of the time but he can't create his own shot. He really isn't that good! I want him to be healthy and succeed just not in Boston. Send him to a place where he will be surrounded by good players that can create shots and could benefit from a PG like Rondo.

  KG can't create his own shot.

I know you're talking largely about post injury KG but this sentence still makes me super sad.

07-08 and 08-09 KG was so dynamic offensively...

[BballTim]

No one wants Rondo to fail. I just want people to accept the truth that without KG PP etc the guy is a glorified role player. He plays hard most of the time but he can't create his own shot. He really isn't that good! I want him to be healthy and succeed just not in Boston. Send him to a place where he will be surrounded by good players that can create shots and could benefit from a PG like Rondo.

  KG can't create his own shot.

I know you're talking largely about post injury KG but this sentence still makes me super sad.

07-08 and 08-09 KG was so dynamic offensively...

  Absolutely I mean post injury. You could also go back to 08-09 and see Ray running fast enough to get good separation from his defender when he went through screens.

[PhoSita]

No one wants Rondo to fail. I just want people to accept the truth that without KG PP etc the guy is a glorified role player. He plays hard most of the time but he can't create his own shot. He really isn't that good! I want him to be healthy and succeed just not in Boston. Send him to a place where he will be surrounded by good players that can create shots and could benefit from a PG like Rondo.

"Shot creation" is an over-rated skill.

Depends on how you define it.

Creating good looks for teammates based on your actions is immensely valuable. LeBron James makes things so easy for his teammates, Dwight Howard in the 1 in 4 out was a monster at creating room for his team to get great shots, etc.

Getting shots for yourself is overvalued more often than not. Shooting a good percentage on relatively low value looks is immensely over rated. (Hi LaMarcus!)

I'm talking about Carmelo Anthony-ish shot "creation" that on further analysis looks like taking shots that your teammates could have taken.

Shot creation seems to be about the ability to score in isolation, but an isolation is pretty much the worst play.  I'd rather see a team built around moving the ball to get a lot of open long twos (assuming you have players who can make that shot) than a team built around leading the league in isolation plays.

Personally, I think you really need a guy who can create his own shots and also find / create good shot opportunities for teammates.

Tony Parker is the first example that comes to mind for me.  Chris Paul obviously combines those abilities at a very high level as well.

[BballTim]

No one wants Rondo to fail. I just want people to accept the truth that without KG PP etc the guy is a glorified role player. He plays hard most of the time but he can't create his own shot. He really isn't that good! I want him to be healthy and succeed just not in Boston. Send him to a place where he will be surrounded by good players that can create shots and could benefit from a PG like Rondo.

"Shot creation" is an over-rated skill.

Depends on how you define it.

Creating good looks for teammates based on your actions is immensely valuable. LeBron James makes things so easy for his teammates, Dwight Howard in the 1 in 4 out was a monster at creating room for his team to get great shots, etc.

Getting shots for yourself is overvalued more often than not. Shooting a good percentage on relatively low value looks is immensely over rated. (Hi LaMarcus!)

I'm talking about Carmelo Anthony-ish shot "creation" that on further analysis looks like taking shots that your teammates could have taken.

Shot creation seems to be about the ability to score in isolation, but an isolation is pretty much the worst play.  I'd rather see a team built around moving the ball to get a lot of open long twos (assuming you have players who can make that shot) than a team built around leading the league in isolation plays.

Personally, I think you really need a guy who can create his own shots and also find / create good shot opportunities for teammates.

Tony Parker is the first example that comes to mind for me.  Chris Paul obviously combines those abilities at a very high level as well.

  Tony Parker isn't the best at it. If you're looking for a good example on the Spurs go with Manu. CP obviously excels at it.

[D.o.s.]

No one wants Rondo to fail. I just want people to accept the truth that without KG PP etc the guy is a glorified role player. He plays hard most of the time but he can't create his own shot. He really isn't that good! I want him to be healthy and succeed just not in Boston. Send him to a place where he will be surrounded by good players that can create shots and could benefit from a PG like Rondo.

  KG can't create his own shot. Neither could Ray. Bass isn't that great at it either. Rondo creates shots for other people. It's a very valuable skill, and something that was completely absent from your in depth analysis of Rondo (good defender) and Chalmers (best clutch shooter in the league).

I think Ray could, I don't think he was allowed to in Doc's system.

At least, for the first couple of years. We see flashes of it in Miami every now and then, but his ballhandling isn't anywhere close to where it was while he was in Milwaukee or Seattle.

[BballTim]

No one wants Rondo to fail. I just want people to accept the truth that without KG PP etc the guy is a glorified role player. He plays hard most of the time but he can't create his own shot. He really isn't that good! I want him to be healthy and succeed just not in Boston. Send him to a place where he will be surrounded by good players that can create shots and could benefit from a PG like Rondo.

  KG can't create his own shot. Neither could Ray. Bass isn't that great at it either. Rondo creates shots for other people. It's a very valuable skill, and something that was completely absent from your in depth analysis of Rondo (good defender) and Chalmers (best clutch shooter in the league).

I think Ray could, I don't think he was allowed to in Doc's system.

At least, for the first couple of years. We see flashes of it in Miami every now and then, but his ballhandling isn't anywhere close to where it was while he was in Milwaukee or Seattle.

  Yes, I should have been more specific in that particular post. I was talking about the last 3-4 years on the team, not over the courses of their careers, or even in 08-09.

[Finkelskyhook]

Not sure what's worse: 1.) Watching the Celtics barely scrape by or 2.) Seeing some of these responses.

No self respecting organization is going to tell its players to play anything less than 100%. No matter the circumstance or the endgame. Danny will never go to Rondo and say "Hey, take it down a notch. Lets loose this next one."

Yes, it would help us to loose more, that's fairly obvious. But what does Celtic Pride mean now? Well we can pretend the next 3-4 years didn't happen so we can get lucky in drafting?

People need to stop complaining, the celtics will play 100% every night and they will not aim to loose. Whinning and complaining on message boards will not change that. Root for the win, accept the loss.

I would contend that it was so obvious that we were trying to lose in the 06-07 season that Stern put us in the worst draft position....As well as the other overt tankers.  I watched every game that season.  To sit Pierce for the season after a 50pt game???  Not only were we sitting what few key "injured" players we had....But in several of the games in the second half of the season...Rivers would put forth combinations on the floor that would make big runs...Only to be pulled....And not be seen on the floor again.  The motives were obvious and painful to watch.

Stevens is clearly trying to win...The talent to win consistently...(at least without Rondo) simply hasn't been there.