Larry Sanders under investigation for starting a bar fight

[Endless Paradise]

As an aside:

I laugh at ideas in the trade forum that suggest acquiring an established big with all-star ability or potential that don't include Sullinger or Olynyk.

Totally agreed; I don't get why some people fail to understand this.  Want Aldridge, for example?  Cool, but your trade proposal better include Olynyk and/or Sullinger, otherwise it's a non-starter.

Um, no. Want Aldridge, trade proposal better include Rondo _and_ Sullinger/Olynyk.

Sanders, of course, is a different story. Any trade giving up Rondo for Sanders is probably giving up too much.

The Blazers would not want Rondo, especially *without* Aldridge.  Are you forgetting they have last season's Rookie of the Year on their roster playing the same position?  If they're getting rid of Aldridge, it's to fully commit to a rebuild, so it makes no sense to bring in a guy like Rondo - and they're not going to shift Lillard to SG full-time.  Bradley and Sullinger/Olynyk?  Sure.  But not Rondo.  Lillard makes way more sense and has far more potential for them.  Not to mention, Lillard makes a fraction of what Rondo is paid, as he still has three years left on his rookie contract.

How dumb do you think the GM is to take Bradley and Sullinger/Olynyk instead of Rondo just because he doesn't fit?  It's as simple as shipping Rondo to another team in order to yield a much better return than Bradley and Sullinger/Olynyk.

That's of course only if they had any motivation here whatsoever.

Honestly?  I think both would realize it makes no sense for either party to trade Rondo for Aldridge (or vice versa) since the whole point of the move would be to pair the two of them together.  One team would be getting youth and assets, the other would be getting proven talent.

And you seem to have overlooked the part in my other comment where I specified those three guys could theoretically be "among other things" as part of a package.  Obviously, Bradley, Sullinger, and Olynyk alone aren't fair value for Aldridge; however, if Boston were willing to throw in a first-rounder or two (their own, the Clippers', any of the Nets', whatever), an expiring contract, and take back someone like Wesley Matthews, then it'd certainly be a lot more palatable to Portland.

[mgent]

As an aside:

I laugh at ideas in the trade forum that suggest acquiring an established big with all-star ability or potential that don't include Sullinger or Olynyk.

Totally agreed; I don't get why some people fail to understand this.  Want Aldridge, for example?  Cool, but your trade proposal better include Olynyk and/or Sullinger, otherwise it's a non-starter.

Um, no. Want Aldridge, trade proposal better include Rondo _and_ Sullinger/Olynyk.

Sanders, of course, is a different story. Any trade giving up Rondo for Sanders is probably giving up too much.

The Blazers would not want Rondo, especially *without* Aldridge.  Are you forgetting they have last season's Rookie of the Year on their roster playing the same position?  If they're getting rid of Aldridge, it's to fully commit to a rebuild, so it makes no sense to bring in a guy like Rondo - and they're not going to shift Lillard to SG full-time.  Bradley and Sullinger/Olynyk?  Sure.  But not Rondo.  Lillard makes way more sense and has far more potential for them.  Not to mention, Lillard makes a fraction of what Rondo is paid, as he still has three years left on his rookie contract.

How dumb do you think the GM is to take Bradley and Sullinger/Olynyk instead of Rondo just because he doesn't fit?  It's as simple as shipping Rondo to another team in order to yield a much better return than Bradley and Sullinger/Olynyk.

That's of course only if they had any motivation here whatsoever.

Honestly?  I think both would realize it makes no sense for either party to trade Rondo for Aldridge (or vice versa) since the whole point of the move would be to pair the two of them together.  One team would be getting youth and assets, the other would be getting proven talent.

And you seem to have overlooked the part in my other comment where I specified those three guys could theoretically be "among other things" as part of a package.  Obviously, Bradley, Sullinger, and Olynyk alone aren't fair value for Aldridge; however, if Boston were willing to throw in a first-rounder or two (their own, the Clippers', any of the Nets', whatever), an expiring contract, and take back someone like Wesley Matthews, then it'd certainly be a lot more palatable to Portland.

More likely both would realize it makes no sense for these two teams to trade period, ESPECIALLY without a third team.  They don't want our "youth and assets" over a proven talent, just like we wouldn't take it for Rondo.  Of course the ideal trade involves Aldridge and Rondo ending up on the same team, but Portland has no reason to facilitate that for us, especially considering they're probably in a better position to make it happen.

I didn't overlook your comment.  Aside from the fact that Portland isn't in a situation to accept a 4 for 2 trade with 15 current players, once you add in 2 picks Boston has a red bottom line.  Aldridge is not the go-to player on a contender to pair with Rondo, especially not by themselves.  Wouldn't work for either team.

[hpantazo]

Aldridge can barely get his team to the playoffs with Lilliard and Matthews help, why would we think he can contend with Rondo and Green?

[LooseCannon]

Aldridge can barely get his team to the playoffs with Lilliard and Matthews help, why would we think he can contend with Rondo and Green?

Because Rondo and Green are better than Lillard and Matthews.

[mgent]

The Blazers would not want Rondo, especially *without* Aldridge.  Are you forgetting they have last season's Rookie of the Year on their roster playing the same position?  If they're getting rid of Aldridge, it's to fully commit to a rebuild, so it makes no sense to bring in a guy like Rondo - and they're not going to shift Lillard to SG full-time.  Bradley and Sullinger/Olynyk?  Sure.  But not Rondo.  Lillard makes way more sense and has far more potential for them.  Not to mention, Lillard makes a fraction of what Rondo is paid, as he still has three years left on his rookie contract.

That's probably true, it was more of an attempt to point out that it's not realistic to expect to add a player of Aldridge's age and ability without parting with Rondo.

I disagree.  Neither Dwight Howard nor Chris Paul nor Carmelo Anthony brought back anyone as good as Rondo.  There were some players better than Sully/Oly, sure, but not a single All-Star went to their former teams.  It was all prospects + picks with some high-$ guys to make the cap work.  And Aldridge isn't as good as any of those guys.

It'll take more than just Sully/Oly and a 1st, but the going price for players better than Aldridge indicate it's not as high a cost as you might expect.

Unbelievably huge missing detail:  those guys told their teams they were walking in the offseason, which would have left their teams with nothing.

It's not that different of a situation - Aldridge's contract ends after next season.  Paul was traded with two full seasons left, Howard had a full season.  Only Carmelo was actually expiring.

If he wants to stay, then yeah, the price goes way up, but the entire reason why there are so many trade rumors around Aldridge (and Love for that matter) is that he's reportedly also disgruntled and may want out.

I didn't mean that offseason, whether it was a year or not, they were leaving to team up and try to match the Heat's 3.  Also I think Paul had a player option.

"I'm happy here right now," Aldridge told USA TODAY Sports while sitting on a bench inside the team's practice facility. "I feel like we have a team that can win, that can make noise, and I feel like if we buy in then anything is possible. So I'm happy, and it's still my team and I'm playing well.

"I feel like the team has jelled around me. I feel like coach (Terry Stotts) has trusted me more this year to where I'm getting different opportunities that I didn't get last year, so I think everything is going great right now."

 "It's not 'If there's a better deal, then get me out of (Portland) or take that. It's 'We're here. Let's win, and let's try to have the best season that we can.'"

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/blazers/2013/11/05/lemarcus-aldridge-portland-trail-blazers/3440343/

[BUTerrier]

Can we go back to the Sanders' article for a second? Because that's just BS, pure and simple. "a neighbor?" Exactly how is this guy a neighbor, seeing as how that club is right in the middle of a business district? Hell, I'm probably the closest "neighbor" to that club, and I'm 7 or 8 blocks away, and we're probably the only condo complex anywhere near that area.

Second of all, I went there back when it was Eve, then E3, then whatever the hell it was before Apartment 720. Not to sound particularly racist -- I'm stating facts, not stereotypes -- but do you know how many black guys start fights there? Do you know how many times the city has tried to shut that club down, only to have it reopen under "new ownership?" The people who tend to frequent there are people who think they're OGs and want to hang with the actual important people (since it's really the only "club", so to speak, in the area).

Third, as much as no one can know a basketball player really, I've been at charity events where I've talked to Sanders and seen him interact with people, and the whole "he just attacked this guy brutally and without provocation" line is simply untrue. Seriously, the DA's office in Milwaukee County has absolutely no hesitation in charging big names; they charged Yovanni Gallardo (Brewers ace) when he got an OWI; they charged aldermen and politicians and anyone else who commits a crime. In fact, the DA in Milwaukee County, John Chisholm, is pretty much considered the most ethical and thorough DA in the state; I've even had clients who are being convicted by him tell me how much they respect him. So, if they don't think there's enough to charge, they REALLY must not think there's anything there.

[D.o.s.]

Can we go back to the Sanders' article for a second? Because that's just BS, pure and simple. "a neighbor?" Exactly how is this guy a neighbor, seeing as how that club is right in the middle of a business district? Hell, I'm probably the closest "neighbor" to that club, and I'm 7 or 8 blocks away, and we're probably the only condo complex anywhere near that area.

Second of all, I went there back when it was Eve, then E3, then whatever the hell it was before Apartment 720. Not to sound particularly racist -- I'm stating facts, not stereotypes -- but do you know how many black guys start fights there? Do you know how many times the city has tried to shut that club down, only to have it reopen under "new ownership?" The people who tend to frequent there are people who think they're OGs and want to hang with the actual important people (since it's really the only "club", so to speak, in the area).

Third, as much as no one can know a basketball player really, I've been at charity events where I've talked to Sanders and seen him interact with people, and the whole "he just attacked this guy brutally and without provocation" line is simply untrue. Seriously, the DA's office in Milwaukee County has absolutely no hesitation in charging big names; they charged Yovanni Gallardo (Brewers ace) when he got an OWI; they charged aldermen and politicians and anyone else who commits a crime. In fact, the DA in Milwaukee County, John Chisholm, is pretty much considered the most ethical and thorough DA in the state; I've even had clients who are being convicted by him tell me how much they respect him. So, if they don't think there's enough to charge, they REALLY must not think there's anything there.

Fear not. I think that what you're saying comes across in print as "generally racist," not "particularly racist."

[hpantazo]

Aldridge can barely get his team to the playoffs with Lilliard and Matthews help, why would we think he can contend with Rondo and Green?

Because Rondo and Green are better than Lillard and Matthews.

says who?

[pearljammer10]

Aldridge can barely get his team to the playoffs with Lilliard and Matthews help, why would we think he can contend with Rondo and Green?

Because Rondo and Green are better than Lillard and Matthews.

says who?

Says common basketball sense.

[pearljammer10]

I was about to propose a trade idea that involved Rondo+Wallace going to the Bucks for expiring contracts, Sanders and unprotected 2014 pick... until I realized Sanders just signed a 4 year 44 million dollar extension.

you kidding? the Cs would jump all over that. deal would be done in 10 minutes if the Bucks were willing.

Why?

I mean I love Larry Sanders almost as much as IP does but why would we trade our franchise player in Rondo for Sanders on this type of rebuilding team. Sanders is not a player you can rebuild a franchise around.

[hpantazo]

Aldridge can barely get his team to the playoffs with Lilliard and Matthews help, why would we think he can contend with Rondo and Green?

Because Rondo and Green are better than Lillard and Matthews.

says who?

Says common basketball sense.

Not exactly. Put up a poll on a general site like ESPN and you will find it's not clear cut at all.

Rondo and Green are in no way Ray Allen and Paul Pierce, or anything close to that. They are not the top 2 players on a contending team despite what some fans on here believe. 

Don't get me wrong, I like Rondo and Green, it's just that they are not that big of a difference over Lilliard and Matthews to make a team with Aldridge a legit contender. Not even close.

[indeedproceed]

I was about to propose a trade idea that involved Rondo+Wallace going to the Bucks for expiring contracts, Sanders and unprotected 2014 pick... until I realized Sanders just signed a 4 year 44 million dollar extension.

you kidding? the Cs would jump all over that. deal would be done in 10 minutes if the Bucks were willing.

Why?

I mean I love Larry Sanders almost as much as IP does but why would we trade our franchise player in Rondo for Sanders on this type of rebuilding team. Sanders is not a player you can rebuild a franchise around.

The actual trade was shedding Wallace's contract, plus getting a 2014 pick unprotected pick from the good land. Too many things we want.

[Fafnir]

The Blazers would not want Rondo, especially *without* Aldridge.  Are you forgetting they have last season's Rookie of the Year on their roster playing the same position?  If they're getting rid of Aldridge, it's to fully commit to a rebuild, so it makes no sense to bring in a guy like Rondo - and they're not going to shift Lillard to SG full-time.  Bradley and Sullinger/Olynyk?  Sure.  But not Rondo.  Lillard makes way more sense and has far more potential for them.  Not to mention, Lillard makes a fraction of what Rondo is paid, as he still has three years left on his rookie contract.

That's probably true, it was more of an attempt to point out that it's not realistic to expect to add a player of Aldridge's age and ability without parting with Rondo.

I disagree.  Neither Dwight Howard nor Chris Paul nor Carmelo Anthony brought back anyone as good as Rondo.  There were some players better than Sully/Oly, sure, but not a single All-Star went to their former teams.  It was all prospects + picks with some high-$ guys to make the cap work.  And Aldridge isn't as good as any of those guys.

It'll take more than just Sully/Oly and a 1st, but the going price for players better than Aldridge indicate it's not as high a cost as you might expect.

Unbelievably huge missing detail:  those guys told their teams they were walking in the offseason, which would have left their teams with nothing.

It's not that different of a situation - Aldridge's contract ends after next season.  Paul was traded with two full seasons left, Howard had a full season.  Only Carmelo was actually expiring.

If he wants to stay, then yeah, the price goes way up, but the entire reason why there are so many trade rumors around Aldridge (and Love for that matter) is that he's reportedly also disgruntled and may want out.

Exactly Portland is only trading Aldridge if he's made it clear he's walking, or they fear he's walking to the point they're moving on.

Same thing with Love.