Ainge: Very Hard Decision on Pierce

[JSD]

I still see Dallas as the perfect trading partner if they fail to bring anyone in through FA this offseason because they could practically absorb both Pierce and KG.

Yeah, good point. I also think Paul and KG might welcome the idea of going to Dallas to play alongside Dirk.

Dallas will certainly have alot of cap space and if they whiff on Howard and Paul (which they will cause I think both stay in LA) then I think Cuban could definitely be tempted by KG/Pierce.

Hmm... I think they would have to waive the Bird Rights of Collison and Beaubois to pull it off and absorb both.

Would Dallas give up a future 1st rounder? Would the Celtics do it if tomorrow night the season ends?

[mmmmm]

Just FYI, since it hasn't been mentioned in this thread so far:

Danny confirmed in an interview a couple of months ago that Pierce's contract has a trade kicker.

He did not say what that kicker is.

My bet is that it may make the entire contract guaranteed.  That is speculation, but it is a reasonable one, imho.

Also, at least 2 sites (BBR, Roto) that have contract info indicate that Pierce has a player option.   Other sites do not indicate whether he does or doesn't.

One article about the contract (Boston Herald) that came out when he signed it indicated 'mutual options' but multiple options aren't allowed by the CBA.   Of course, a player option combined with a 'partially guaranteed' salary structure like Pierce's is sort of like having mutual options, so maybe that's what it meant.

Anyways - the point of the above is just some food for thought.  The net net of all that too me is mainly that these things make it harder to trade Pierce unless he wants to be traded.

His contract IS eligible for amnesty.   I doubt that happens unless the moon falls out of the sky.

His contract is also eligible for restructuring.   An option not discussed on this thread that I think is realistically possible is that they simply restructure his contract.   They could drop his annual salary to ~11M and extend him another year.  That would raise the total contract value from 15.7M to 22M.   Make the entire thing guaranteed.   For Pierce, that's getting more guaranteed money and definite path to retiring with the Cs.   For the C's, they would drop their cap hit about 3.7M (giving Danny more room under the hard cap and saving more luxury tax money) and they'd effectively get Pierce for one more year for just over 6M.

This would mean Pierce' contract would terminate at the same time as that of KG, Lee, Bass, Terry - so Danny would have max flexibility to completely restructure the team.

Having Pierce' contract expire next year just doesn't really do much since by itself, it doesn't get us under the cap and there are no good trade targets for Pierce's expiring contract right now.   I'd rather hold on to it until it can be combined with all the others.

[Lucky17]

According to Larry Coon, only teams that are below the cap can restructure contracts.

Pierce's contract could be extended, I think.

[JSD]

His contract is also eligible for restructuring.   An option not discussed on this thread that I think is realistically possible is that they simply restructure his contract.   They could drop his annual salary to ~11M and extend him another year.  That would raise the total contract value from 15.7M to 22M.   Make the entire thing guaranteed.   For Pierce, that's getting more guaranteed money and definite path to retiring with the Cs.   For the C's, they would drop their cap hit about 3.7M (giving Danny more room under the hard cap and saving more luxury tax money) and they'd effectively get Pierce for one more year for just over 6M.

This would mean Pierce' contract would terminate at the same time as that of KG, Lee, Bass, Terry - so Danny would have max flexibility to completely restructure the team.

Having Pierce' contract expire next year just doesn't really do much since by itself, it doesn't get us under the cap and there are no good trade targets for Pierce's expiring contract right now.   I'd rather hold on to it until it can be combined with all the others.

Sounds great in theory, and Pierce has a history of this on an option year, but there is nothing out there to suggest this is possible that I have seen. This is not a player option.

[action781]

Minnesota isn't trading Love, the new GM is going to try and sell him on the team and make the playoffs with him.

:-(

What about if Dwight indicates he wants to play in ATL with Josh Smith? The Hawks could then trade us Horford.

I could also see Houston, Dallas, or maybe Detroit as teams who could look to shed salary.

Hmmm....

Them trading Horford for Pierce would be AWFUL in terms of value... but would you rather a frontcourt of Pierce-Smith-Howard or Smith-Horford-Howard?  I think I'd go with the first one.  Seems like the better fit.  Still, in order to make up for the complete imbalance of value, the celtics would have to throw in a first round pick.

Pierce + 1st for Horford + Stevenson...

Then the Hawks could have a roster of:

Teague
Lou Williams
Pierce
J. Smith
Howard

With Jenkins, Ivan Johnson, and Michael Scott (can't resist calling him that) also already signed off the bench.  Hopefully they'd be able to bring back some guys like Mack, Korver, Tolliver, Petro.  That's a pretty nice team.  I'd try to get a cheap defensive-minded SG (Pietrus) and bring Williams off the bench.

Or would the size, physicality, and youth of a Smith/Horford/Howard frontcourt be too intriguing to pass up on?  In today's NBA, I'm not sure.

[Lucky17]

His contract is also eligible for restructuring.   An option not discussed on this thread that I think is realistically possible is that they simply restructure his contract.   They could drop his annual salary to ~11M and extend him another year.  That would raise the total contract value from 15.7M to 22M.   Make the entire thing guaranteed.   For Pierce, that's getting more guaranteed money and definite path to retiring with the Cs.   For the C's, they would drop their cap hit about 3.7M (giving Danny more room under the hard cap and saving more luxury tax money) and they'd effectively get Pierce for one more year for just over 6M.

This would mean Pierce' contract would terminate at the same time as that of KG, Lee, Bass, Terry - so Danny would have max flexibility to completely restructure the team.

Having Pierce' contract expire next year just doesn't really do much since by itself, it doesn't get us under the cap and there are no good trade targets for Pierce's expiring contract right now.   I'd rather hold on to it until it can be combined with all the others.

Sounds great in theory, and Pierce has a history of this on an option year, but there is nothing out there to suggest this is possible that I have seen. This is not a player option.

Yeah, I've never heard of mutual or multiple options on a contract.

According to Shamsports (whom I view as the authority on NBA contracts), there are performance clauses in the contract (which Pierce has met) that bump the guaranteed money from $4 mil up to $5 mil. Perhaps that's the source of confusion?

http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/celtics.jsp

[Moranis]

Minnesota isn't trading Love, the new GM is going to try and sell him on the team and make the playoffs with him.

:-(

What about if Dwight indicates he wants to play in ATL with Josh Smith? The Hawks could then trade us Horford.

I could also see Houston, Dallas, or maybe Detroit as teams who could look to shed salary.

Hmmm....

Them trading Horford for Pierce would be AWFUL in terms of value... but would you rather a frontcourt of Pierce-Smith-Howard or Smith-Horford-Howard?  I think I'd go with the first one.  Seems like the better fit.  Still, in order to make up for the complete imbalance of value, the celtics would have to throw in a first round pick.

Pierce + 1st for Horford + Stevenson...

Then the Hawks could have a roster of:

Teague
Lou Williams
Pierce
J. Smith
Howard

With Jenkins, Ivan Johnson, and Michael Scott (can't resist calling him that) also already signed off the bench.  Hopefully they'd be able to bring back some guys like Mack, Korver, Tolliver, Petro.  That's a pretty nice team.  I'd try to get a cheap defensive-minded SG (Pietrus) and bring Williams off the bench.

Or would the size, physicality, and youth of a Smith/Horford/Howard frontcourt be too intriguing to pass up on?  In today's NBA, I'm not sure.

Hawks will not make that trade.  I'm sure they would love Pierce, but they aren't giving up Horford to get him, especially if they are adding two young players like Smith and Howard.  I do think there is a possible trade there involving Williams and Korver (in a sign and trade for whatever is needed to make the dollars work in a 1 year deal).  I'm not sure they will still have the rights to Korver though and be able to sign Dwight and Josh.

[CelticConcourse]

Just keep Pierce. He ain't playin' for nobody but Boston.

[mmmmm]

According to Larry Coon, only teams that are below the cap can restructure contracts.

Pierce's contract could be extended, I think.

Yes, I meant 'extended'.   Only teams under the cap can completely renegotiate a contract.

Pierce's contract can be extended, with annual compensation moving up or down by as much as 7.5%.   

Even without extension, though, the amount of guaranteed money of any contract can be dramatically modified up or down.   So long as the two parties both want to make changes, this gives them a lot of wiggle room.

I think there is more than enough flexibility to get this done.

[mmmmm]

His contract is also eligible for restructuring.   An option not discussed on this thread that I think is realistically possible is that they simply restructure his contract.   They could drop his annual salary to ~11M and extend him another year.  That would raise the total contract value from 15.7M to 22M.   Make the entire thing guaranteed.   For Pierce, that's getting more guaranteed money and definite path to retiring with the Cs.   For the C's, they would drop their cap hit about 3.7M (giving Danny more room under the hard cap and saving more luxury tax money) and they'd effectively get Pierce for one more year for just over 6M.

This would mean Pierce' contract would terminate at the same time as that of KG, Lee, Bass, Terry - so Danny would have max flexibility to completely restructure the team.

Having Pierce' contract expire next year just doesn't really do much since by itself, it doesn't get us under the cap and there are no good trade targets for Pierce's expiring contract right now.   I'd rather hold on to it until it can be combined with all the others.

Sounds great in theory, and Pierce has a history of this on an option year, but there is nothing out there to suggest this is possible that I have seen. This is not a player option.

Yeah, I've never heard of mutual or multiple options on a contract.

According to Shamsports (whom I view as the authority on NBA contracts), there are performance clauses in the contract (which Pierce has met) that bump the guaranteed money from $4 mil up to $5 mil. Perhaps that's the source of confusion?

http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/celtics.jsp

I specifically pointed out that the CBA disallows multiple options on a contract.  The Boston Herald story is what used that 'mutual' term.   My guess is that was a mistake meant to describe the fact that both Pierce and the Team have some flexible aspects.

I tend to favor Shamsports, but even that site is not completely authoritative.

For example, Danny very specifically confirmed that the contract has a trade kicker but no site that I have found (including Shamsports) seems to have details on what the kicker is.

Basketball-Reference.com very specifically lists 2013-14 as a Player Option for Pierce.  I have no idea if that is correct or where they got that from.  RotoWorld also says the same.  Shamsports does not.

'Hard to be certain who has the most authoritative info.

We'll find out soon enough, I guess.

[krook]

I am pretty conflicted about Paul staying in Boston.

On one hand, I want Paul to say because I think as long as Paul is a Celtic, then we will try to be competitive because Pierce does not want to be part of a losing team.

Then, Danny will likely try to pick up a couple veteran pieces OR may even try to pull the trigger on a big trade for someone like Gasol, Monta Ellis or even Kevin Love.

The flip side to the coin is if including Pierce himself in a package can net us a decent return like a Josh Smith, I'd be very tempted.

Tough decision to make. Personally, I would deal Rondo to the Lakers for Gasol and keep Paul. I think adding Gasol to KG, Pierce, Green, Bradley would be a pretty decent team.

josh smith can't even hit a free throws...man i'll pass, to many bad shots

[bobbyv]

I am pretty conflicted about Paul staying in Boston.

On one hand, I want Paul to say because I think as long as Paul is a Celtic, then we will try to be competitive because Pierce does not want to be part of a losing team.

Then, Danny will likely try to pick up a couple veteran pieces OR may even try to pull the trigger on a big trade for someone like Gasol, Monta Ellis or even Kevin Love.

The flip side to the coin is if including Pierce himself in a package can net us a decent return like a Josh Smith, I'd be very tempted.

Tough decision to make. Personally, I would deal Rondo to the Lakers for Gasol and keep Paul. I think adding Gasol to KG, Pierce, Green, Bradley would be a pretty decent team.

I disagree. That's a free gift to LA. Gasol, while still a good player, is on the downside of his career. Rondo is in his prime.

[SparzWizard]

I am pretty conflicted about Paul staying in Boston.

On one hand, I want Paul to say because I think as long as Paul is a Celtic, then we will try to be competitive because Pierce does not want to be part of a losing team.

Then, Danny will likely try to pick up a couple veteran pieces OR may even try to pull the trigger on a big trade for someone like Gasol, Monta Ellis or even Kevin Love.

The flip side to the coin is if including Pierce himself in a package can net us a decent return like a Josh Smith, I'd be very tempted.

Tough decision to make. Personally, I would deal Rondo to the Lakers for Gasol and keep Paul. I think adding Gasol to KG, Pierce, Green, Bradley would be a pretty decent team.

I disagree. That's a free gift to LA. Gasol, while still a good player, is on the downside of his career. Rondo is in his prime.

That will make Dwight Howard stay and wow, Kobe, Rondo, and Howard will be a sick trio.

I'd love Gasol on our team though. The guy can grab rebounds and when utilized properly, he's a beast. Just not trade for Rondo.