Is this team as deep as the 'Bill Walton' team?

[drza44]

Look, there's this "misconception" that players today, (or the game today) is/are too fast for the 80's or 90's players.

After all, Kobe decided to run his mouth about the 92 Dream team.

The only major difference today from the 80s is perhaps nutrition and Sports Science. Apply those same advantages to Larry, Magic, Dr. J, etc - and those guys would obliterate today's players, plain and simple.

Agree with the first part.

Disagree with the second.

There's a lot of rose-colored glasses when it comes to the 80s.  I don't think either side could win "easily" with all players at their peaks.  But just like Bird would still be a perineal MVP candidate if he were time-traveled to the 21st century...KG would have been just as strong of an MVP candidate if he were shunted back 30 years.

[GreenFaith1819]

Look, there's this "misconception" that players today, (or the game today) is/are too fast for the 80's or 90's players.

After all, Kobe decided to run his mouth about the 92 Dream team.

The only major difference today from the 80s is perhaps nutrition and Sports Science. Apply those same advantages to Larry, Magic, Dr. J, etc - and those guys would obliterate today's players, plain and simple.

Agree with the first part.

Disagree with the second.

There's a lot of rose-colored glasses when it comes to the 80s.  I don't think either side could win "easily" with all players at their peaks.  But just like Bird would still be a perineal MVP candidate if he were time-traveled to the 21st century...KG would have been just as strong of an MVP candidate if he were shunted back 30 years.

Admittedly, throughout the years I've gone back and forth with such matchups. But it just makes good sense to me that 86 Akeem = Prime KG.

Granted - 86 Akeem did not truly reach his "prime" experience-wise until perhaps the mid 90's, but still - even in 86, the guy was clearly identical athletically to KG - in just about every facet (speed, reflexes, timing, etc)

And McHale guarded him well in the 86 finals.

[CelticsFanNC]

   The 1986 team is arguably the greatest single season team of All-time.  At very least right there near the top.  I'm optimistic about this team but that great I find hard to envision.

Larry Bird is a top 5 player of all-time and at his peak as great as anyone who's ever played.   No one on the current team is even close to that rarefied air.  No disrespect to KG.  No disrespect to Pierce.  I don't think anyone who saw Larry Bird play would say otherwise.  Bird was the smartest basketball player I have ever seen in 40+ years of watching the NBA.   He played with the tenacity of KG and had the killer instinct of Kobe and Jordan.  Give him today's fitness and dietary advances and he'd be a consistent MVP candidate.  

  KG is amazing but is he better right now then Kevin McHale was in 1986?  No.

  Parish eats all of our current centers alive and probably runs them into the ground.  To me the Chief is one of the most under rated and under appreciated Celtics and players of all-time.  He sacrificed individual accomplishments and accolades to play 3rd fiddle to McHale and Bird.  He went toe to toe with a who's who of the many of the greatest Centers in NBA history and always held his own.  If that doesn't say he is one of the great centers to ever play this game I don't know what does.

  Rondo is an tough cover for that Celtic team.  If they struggled with anything it was guards with great quickness.  Still their size would bother Rondo at the hole if they forced Rondo to try to beat them as a scorer because that isn't where he excels.

  That Celtic team in 1986 had amazing chemistry.  They toyed with teams. They always made the extra pass.  They knock you on your but if you went to the hole.  That's was 1980's Celtics at their peak.  

   I have high hopes for next seasons team but it is unlikely they accomplish or could match up with the 1986 team.  

  
  

[33_Larry Legend_33]

Maybe those who think this current team would handle the Celtics would be wise to consider the makeup of the Celtics' foes from 86.  The Celtics simply manhandled the teams they faced in the playoffs, and strangely enough, it was the first round matchup against Jordan's Bulls that gave Boston the most trouble.  But those Hawks and Bucks teams were structured much like this current Celtics' team, minus the big centers, and they were NO match.  Anyone who thinks this current team could beat that team may not have actually seen them play.  Don't let the short shorts fool you...  They swept the Lakers that year, a team that was primed for the Finals.  Olajuwon and Sampson, even giving it their best shot, could only garner 2 wins, one of which was a lucky win at best...  Everyone acts like Pierce would run circles around Bird...hardly.  Larry wasn't that feeble guy with the bad back yet...

[gar]

Do people not understand that the deeper team is not necessarily the better team? 

For example, the Nuggets this season will be a much deeper team than better teams that are actual contenders.

Great Point, but they they did not have aging talent.

The only hope is that we can be like the Spurs and mix young talent with the vets and get the most out the amazing talent we do have.

[j804]

this team can challenge that 72 win Bulls record

[GreenFaith1819]

After thinking this through a bit more, though..I can see some similarities between the two teams.

Wilcox was playing VERY WELL last season prior to him having to sit out due to his heart condition - he was playing as well as any Big we had on the team.

The man ran with Rondo..got out on the break - everything.

Now, comparing the two is a bit challenging..Wilcox didn't play the entire season last year. Here are his stats:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wilcoch01.html

At 29 y/o, he avgd 5.4 pts and 4.4 rebs in 17 min.

Bill Walton? I can see why he won 6th man of the yr in 86:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/waltobi01.html

Nearly 8 pts, nearly 7 rebs, 1.5 blks, over 2 assist in just over 19 min.

Regardless of the stats, though - I think Wilcox was perhaps our best Big off the bench last season. He may not have blocked as mnay shots as Stiem, but he did everything else well.

Him, along with AB, could've made a difference last season. AB I think, moreso.

I can see the similarities, but that 86 team was better talent-wise. This team is as deep as any Celtic team of the last few years, though.

I'd say let's revisit the thread after we kick MIA out of the playoffs next yr and after we beat OKC or LA. THEN we can revisit this.

[drza44]

Look, there's this "misconception" that players today, (or the game today) is/are too fast for the 80's or 90's players.

After all, Kobe decided to run his mouth about the 92 Dream team.

The only major difference today from the 80s is perhaps nutrition and Sports Science. Apply those same advantages to Larry, Magic, Dr. J, etc - and those guys would obliterate today's players, plain and simple.

Agree with the first part.

Disagree with the second.

There's a lot of rose-colored glasses when it comes to the 80s.  I don't think either side could win "easily" with all players at their peaks.  But just like Bird would still be a perineal MVP candidate if he were time-traveled to the 21st century...KG would have been just as strong of an MVP candidate if he were shunted back 30 years.

Admittedly, throughout the years I've gone back and forth with such matchups. But it just makes good sense to me that 86 Akeem = Prime KG.

Granted - 86 Akeem did not truly reach his "prime" experience-wise until perhaps the mid 90's, but still - even in 86, the guy was clearly identical athletically to KG - in just about every facet (speed, reflexes, timing, etc)

And McHale guarded him well in the 86 finals.

I'm not sure we're arguing the same thing.  I'm not saying that Mchale wasn't great.  I'm saying that transporting 80s stars to today wouldn't have them running the league.

As for the 86 Akeem = prime KG comp, there are some similarities in athleticism but not a whole lot in style.  Hakeem was a center with the athleticism to move out to the perimeter, while KG was a forward with the size to dominate the glass.  Stylistically very different.

In his prime, Mchale would have had more trouble with KG than Hakeem because KG's offense was more dynamic.  He attacked from more places on the court, made better use of teammates, was legitimately comfortable from 18-feet in with either the jumper or facing up off the dribble.  Mchale would still defend him well because he was a very good defender, but KG's game took more advantage of his athletic gifts than Hakeem's. 

Hakeem murders KG in the post, and had more of a scorer's mentality...but those were areas and traits that allowed Mchale (a strong 1-on-1 defender) to thrive.  All he had to do was be long and annoying, and use his length to challenge Hakeem's shots.  Against KG he'd have had to defend a much larger area and be much more of a team defender, which wasn't as much his strong suit as 1-on-1 defense.

[GreenFaith1819]

Look, there's this "misconception" that players today, (or the game today) is/are too fast for the 80's or 90's players.

After all, Kobe decided to run his mouth about the 92 Dream team.

The only major difference today from the 80s is perhaps nutrition and Sports Science. Apply those same advantages to Larry, Magic, Dr. J, etc - and those guys would obliterate today's players, plain and simple.

Agree with the first part.

Disagree with the second.

There's a lot of rose-colored glasses when it comes to the 80s.  I don't think either side could win "easily" with all players at their peaks.  But just like Bird would still be a perineal MVP candidate if he were time-traveled to the 21st century...KG would have been just as strong of an MVP candidate if he were shunted back 30 years.

Admittedly, throughout the years I've gone back and forth with such matchups. But it just makes good sense to me that 86 Akeem = Prime KG.

Granted - 86 Akeem did not truly reach his "prime" experience-wise until perhaps the mid 90's, but still - even in 86, the guy was clearly identical athletically to KG - in just about every facet (speed, reflexes, timing, etc)

And McHale guarded him well in the 86 finals.

I'm not sure we're arguing the same thing.  I'm not saying that Mchale wasn't great.  I'm saying that transporting 80s stars to today wouldn't have them running the league.

As for the 86 Akeem = prime KG comp, there are some similarities in athleticism but not a whole lot in style.  Hakeem was a center with the athleticism to move out to the perimeter, while KG was a forward with the size to dominate the glass.  Stylistically very different.

In his prime, Mchale would have had more trouble with KG than Hakeem because KG's offense was more dynamic.  He attacked from more places on the court, made better use of teammates, was legitimately comfortable from 18-feet in with either the jumper or facing up off the dribble.  Mchale would still defend him well because he was a very good defender, but KG's game took more advantage of his athletic gifts than Hakeem's. 

Hakeem murders KG in the post, and had more of a scorer's mentality...but those were areas and traits that allowed Mchale (a strong 1-on-1 defender) to thrive.  All he had to do was be long and annoying, and use his length to challenge Hakeem's shots.  Against KG he'd have had to defend a much larger area and be much more of a team defender, which wasn't as much his strong suit as 1-on-1 defense.

Great Points.

You remind me that KG would've probably pulled many Bigs from the 80's out of the painted area - IF he was allowed to play that style back then.

[Onslaught]

I love our team right now, but even KG and Paul in their primes couldn't sniff that 86 team.

One thing that basketball-reference taught me is that Larry Bird was a 3-time 2nd team Defense back in the 80's.

He was The Total Package.

McHale could not guard KG
Bird could not guard Pierce
DJ nor Ainge could guard Rondo

Prime or Not, this would be a great match-up.

McHale could guard KG. But KG would have more problems with McHale then McHale would have with KG. KG never faced anyone in the modern NBA with those low post moves.

Bird vs Pierce. Come on, I love Paul as much as anyone but Bird is better. And  Paul couldn't stop Bird on his best day.

DJ went up against Magic. So I don't think Rondo would make him too worried.

And lets not forget that if Rondo went to the hole too much back then he'd be put on the floor. HARD

[Onslaught]

this team can challenge that 72 win Bulls record

No it can't.

[33_Larry Legend_33]

86 was the year before McHale broke his foot.  He was guarding many small forwards, including Dominique in his prime.  KG would struggle against McHale because of his length, which tends to frustrate KG.