"Trade Rajon for Deron Williams this summer while his stock is high"

[BballTim]

for example... try comparing what Deron William managed to do with Utah (western conference finals... 3 straight trips leading them out of the 1st round... 50+ wins multiple times... all without any hall of famers on his team) to what Devin Harris is doing in utah.

 It's also no surprise that this team was a bunch of also-rans the year KG got hurt.  Rondo plays his part and he's effective.  Pierce has been spectacular as of recently.  Without those guys, I'm not so sure Rondo can flourish.  

  The "also-rans", after KG got hurt, what about 2/3 of their games, made it out of the first round and took Orlando to 7 games. In other words, they were as good as the those teams that Deron did "so much" with.

Sure... Pierce and Ray are hall of famers too.  You expect two hall off famers along with an allstar point guard to get into the 2nd round with or without their superstar big man (KG). 

Deron didn't have anything resembling a hall of famer on his teams.  You just proved my point.

And yes... this team is only as good as Kevin Garnett.  What he's doing right now is unbelievable.  He singlehandedly just saved the Celtics season.  We stand a long shot of getting into the 2nd round now.

  Calling people hall of famers generally means that they played at a dominant level in their primes, it doesn't mean that they play at that level until they retire. Ray was an injury replacement on the all-star team that year, wasn't he? I think the point I proved was your basing your claims on hyperbole. Aside from Ray and Paul the Celts started Perk and Baby and their bench consisted of Scal, House, Marbury and Mikki Moore. I doubt that the Utah casts were much worse.

[BballTim]

BBall you are arguing with a guy that has admitted to not watching a Celtic game this year. I wouldn't waste my finger strength.

  Thanks for the warning...

[Celtics4ever]

Deron Williams can? haha

To my knowledge he has never won a title. Haha

[TripleOT]

A five page thread discussing the best NBA floor generals and passing PGs and not one mention of Steve Nash?

Rondo is second best in the NBA in running an offense.  Nash is the best, even at his advanced age.  Nash is playing with a bunch of scrubs and still leads the league in assists. I love Rondo, but I have  to give Nash his due.  He's a maestro on the break and a surgeon in the half court.  Rondo is the second best fast break PG and half court conductor, a hair better than CP3. Also, Nash is the best shooting PG of all time.

The Rondo/DWill debate is a worthy one.  DWill certainly hasn't bolstered his resume by losing so many games in NJ, or by his exit from Utah/Jerry Sloan conflict.   Williams can do it all, but Rondo is better as a defender and passing PG. DWill is slightly better, but I'll take either on on my team.

My PG rankings for this year:

1) Westbrook - doing it all on NBA's 2nd best team
2) CP3 - top notch all around play in leading a perennial loser to success
3) Rose - If he was healthier he'd be ranked higher.
4) Rondo
5) Nash - shooting 54/39/88 at age 38 and averaging 11.3 apg
6) DWill- too much losing and too lousy shooting percentage (41) to be ranked higher. 8.6/4 Ast/TO ratio isn't helping   

[Celtics4ever]

Nash is older than dirt, get real.

[LarBrd33]

BBall you are arguing with a guy that has admitted to not watching a Celtic game this year. I wouldn't waste my finger strength.

  Thanks for the warning...

Lol yeah.  Nickagneta, you are adorable.  I've seen every episode of the Cosby Show.  You can't blame me if I miss a few reruns that air on Nick-At-Night.  Especially those later seasons when they added Pam to the roster.  Seen it... know what to expect.  

That said, I finally went back and watched the Heat no-show against us.  That was an encouraging game.  This is the first time all season the Celtics have been interesting.  Kevin Garnett has aged backwards and singlehandedly saved this team by switching to Center... with a little help from player of the week Paul Pierce.  Rondo's doing a good job playing his role too.     

Deron Williams is better.  Thanks.  

This is a pointless topic to argue.  It's pretty established that Deron Williams is a better point guard than Rondo.  Pretty confident Ainge would gladly pull the trigger on a Rondo for Deron swap.  Pretty confident you wouldn't find a GM in the league who has Rondo ranked ahead of Deron.  Luckily it's a non-topic, because Deron will likely be a free agent.   If he decides not to pick up his player option, he'll get a max offer from Boston and we'll see how things shake out.  Most seem to think he's heading to Dallas in such a scenario, but if for some reason he picks Boston... we'll start shopping Rondo to the highest bidder.

 

[LarBrd33]

for example... try comparing what Deron William managed to do with Utah (western conference finals... 3 straight trips leading them out of the 1st round... 50+ wins multiple times... all without any hall of famers on his team) to what Devin Harris is doing in utah.

 It's also no surprise that this team was a bunch of also-rans the year KG got hurt.  Rondo plays his part and he's effective.  Pierce has been spectacular as of recently.  Without those guys, I'm not so sure Rondo can flourish. 

  The "also-rans", after KG got hurt, what about 2/3 of their games, made it out of the first round and took Orlando to 7 games. In other words, they were as good as the those teams that Deron did "so much" with.

Sure... Pierce and Ray are hall of famers too.  You expect two hall off famers along with an allstar point guard to get into the 2nd round with or without their superstar big man (KG). 

Deron didn't have anything resembling a hall of famer on his teams.  You just proved my point.

And yes... this team is only as good as Kevin Garnett.  What he's doing right now is unbelievable.  He singlehandedly just saved the Celtics season.  We stand a long shot of getting into the 2nd round now.

  Calling people hall of famers generally means that they played at a dominant level in their primes, it doesn't mean that they play at that level until they retire. Ray was an injury replacement on the all-star team that year, wasn't he? I think the point I proved was your basing your claims on hyperbole. Aside from Ray and Paul the Celts started Perk and Baby and their bench consisted of Scal, House, Marbury and Mikki Moore. I doubt that the Utah casts were much worse.

Yeah I didn't get this post.  Ray and Pierce were allstars playing with Rondo.  Ray's one of the best shooters in the league.  Yes... assists-a-plenty when you have a Ray Allen on your team.  You lost me... not sure what you are trying to say.

But whatever... doesn't matter to me.  Chris Paul, Deron and Rose are the top 3 point guards in the league.  If you want to believe Rondo is better than them... so be it.  It's a shame the rest of the league disagrees or Ainge would have been able to move Rondo for an upgrade.

The moderators sent me a warning in another thread for making a blanket statement that "fans that believe X are delusional".  I've since come to realize that I need to be more tolerable and accepting of my fellow fans.  I take back all the snarky remarks I made at fans who told me Gerald Green was the next T-Mac.  I take back any jokes I made at the expense of the poster who claimed (with a straight face) that Kendrick Perkins was a better fit for 08 Celtics than Hakeem in his prime.  I take back any snickers I snickered at the poster who called Jiri Welsch a 6'7 Larry Bird.  These special opinions are valid and worthy of consideration.  I've come to accept that I, in fact, am the delusional one.  This is my "Beautiful Mind"/"Fight Club"/"Identity"/"Shutter Island" moment... it's like finally accepting your best friend is imaginary.  I've been so out of touch.

GO Avery Bradley.  Kid's a Stah.  6'7 Larry Bird.  Book it!

[jdz101]

BBall you are arguing with a guy that has admitted to not watching a Celtic game this year. I wouldn't waste my finger strength.

  Thanks for the warning...

Lol yeah.  Nickagneta, you are adorable.  I've seen every episode of the Cosby Show.  You can't blame me if I miss a few reruns that air on Nick-At-Night.  Especially those later seasons when they added Pam to the roster.  Seen it... know what to expect.  

That said, I finally went back and watched the Heat no-show against us.  That was an encouraging game.  This is the first time all season the Celtics have been interesting.  Kevin Garnett has aged backwards and singlehandedly saved this team by switching to Center... with a little help from player of the week Paul Pierce.  Rondo's doing a good job playing his role too.     

Deron Williams is better.  Thanks.  

This is a pointless topic to argue.  It's pretty established that Deron Williams is a better point guard than Rondo.  Pretty confident Ainge would gladly pull the trigger on a Rondo for Deron swap.  Pretty confident you wouldn't find a GM in the league who has Rondo ranked ahead of Deron.  Luckily it's a non-topic, because Deron will likely be a free agent.   If he decides not to pick up his player option, he'll get a max offer from Boston and we'll see how things shake out.  Most seem to think he's heading to Dallas in such a scenario, but if for some reason he picks Boston... we'll start shopping Rondo to the highest bidder.

 

Hypothetically if Deron did come here, wouldnt you just find a way to put him down and doom the team anyway?

Really, whoever this team gets, you seem to have an issue with. So in your opinion, we may aswell have traded KG to the bobcats at the deadline for corey maggette, desagana diop, and matt carroll, so your prediction that this team has no hope will actually have some traction for once.

My oh my is that grass green over there.

[BballTim]

for example... try comparing what Deron William managed to do with Utah (western conference finals... 3 straight trips leading them out of the 1st round... 50+ wins multiple times... all without any hall of famers on his team) to what Devin Harris is doing in utah.

 It's also no surprise that this team was a bunch of also-rans the year KG got hurt.  Rondo plays his part and he's effective.  Pierce has been spectacular as of recently.  Without those guys, I'm not so sure Rondo can flourish. 

  The "also-rans", after KG got hurt, what about 2/3 of their games, made it out of the first round and took Orlando to 7 games. In other words, they were as good as the those teams that Deron did "so much" with.

Sure... Pierce and Ray are hall of famers too.  You expect two hall off famers along with an allstar point guard to get into the 2nd round with or without their superstar big man (KG). 

Deron didn't have anything resembling a hall of famer on his teams.  You just proved my point.

And yes... this team is only as good as Kevin Garnett.  What he's doing right now is unbelievable.  He singlehandedly just saved the Celtics season.  We stand a long shot of getting into the 2nd round now.

  Calling people hall of famers generally means that they played at a dominant level in their primes, it doesn't mean that they play at that level until they retire. Ray was an injury replacement on the all-star team that year, wasn't he? I think the point I proved was your basing your claims on hyperbole. Aside from Ray and Paul the Celts started Perk and Baby and their bench consisted of Scal, House, Marbury and Mikki Moore. I doubt that the Utah casts were much worse.

Yeah I didn't get this post.  Ray and Pierce were allstars playing with Rondo.  Ray's one of the best shooters in the league.  Yes... assists-a-plenty when you have a Ray Allen on your team.  You lost me... not sure what you are trying to say.

But whatever... doesn't matter to me.  Chris Paul, Deron and Rose are the top 3 point guards in the league.  If you want to believe Rondo is better than them... so be it.  It's a shame the rest of the league disagrees or Ainge would have been able to move Rondo for an upgrade.

  Pretty clever, bolstering your opinion by claiming the entire nba agrees with you even though you have no way of knowing whether that's true or not, let alone proving it. But here's something Doc said about moving Ray to the bench:

  “This probably came up for the first time three years ago. But you’re always giving up something. We can move Ray, but then he’s not playing with Rondo and he doesn’t get looks. I mean, I think it’s simple until you actually do it.”

  Doc isn't saying that whoever plays with Ray will get "assists-a-plenty", he's saying that Ray won't get the open looks that he does if he doesn't play with Rondo. In other words, his take on the situation is pretty much the *opposite* of yours. Couple that with the fact that swapping Ray with the offensively challenged Bradley hasn't cut into Rondo's assists and the fact that Rondo's numbers generally go up (not down) when any of the big three are out and I don't think you'll get far with "people I don't know and have never spoken to or heard from obviously agree with me".

The moderators sent me a warning in another thread for making a blanket statement that "fans that believe X are delusional".  I've since come to realize that I need to be more tolerable and accepting of my fellow fans.  I take back all the snarky remarks I made at fans who told me Gerald Green was the next T-Mac.  I take back any jokes I made at the expense of the poster who claimed (with a straight face) that Kendrick Perkins was a better fit for 08 Celtics than Hakeem in his prime.  I take back any snickers I snickered at the poster who called Jiri Welsch a 6'7 Larry Bird.  These special opinions are valid and worthy of consideration.  I've come to accept that I, in fact, am the delusional one.  This is my "Beautiful Mind"/"Fight Club"/"Identity"/"Shutter Island" moment... it's like finally accepting your best friend is imaginary.  I've been so out of touch.

GO Avery Bradley.  Kid's a Stah.  6'7 Larry Bird.  Book it!

  Haha. I see posts like this from time to time. People read the occasional post about Perk being a better fit that Hakeem and consider themselves to be smarter than most of the rubes who post here, blissfully unaware that only a few of the posters here hold those wild opinions. Congratulations on knowing more than some of the extreme outliers who post here.

[nickagneta]

I'm a huge Rondo fan and there's only two other PGs I would trade him for, Williams and CP3, though I'm thinking in a year or so I might have to add Kyrie Irving to that list.

[LarBrd33]

BBall you are arguing with a guy that has admitted to not watching a Celtic game this year. I wouldn't waste my finger strength.

  Thanks for the warning...

Lol yeah.  Nickagneta, you are adorable.  I've seen every episode of the Cosby Show.  You can't blame me if I miss a few reruns that air on Nick-At-Night.  Especially those later seasons when they added Pam to the roster.  Seen it... know what to expect.   

That said, I finally went back and watched the Heat no-show against us.  That was an encouraging game.  This is the first time all season the Celtics have been interesting.  Kevin Garnett has aged backwards and singlehandedly saved this team by switching to Center... with a little help from player of the week Paul Pierce.  Rondo's doing a good job playing his role too.     

Deron Williams is better.  Thanks. 

This is a pointless topic to argue.  It's pretty established that Deron Williams is a better point guard than Rondo.  Pretty confident Ainge would gladly pull the trigger on a Rondo for Deron swap.  Pretty confident you wouldn't find a GM in the league who has Rondo ranked ahead of Deron.  Luckily it's a non-topic, because Deron will likely be a free agent.   If he decides not to pick up his player option, he'll get a max offer from Boston and we'll see how things shake out.  Most seem to think he's heading to Dallas in such a scenario, but if for some reason he picks Boston... we'll start shopping Rondo to the highest bidder.

 

Hypothetically if Deron did come here, wouldnt you just find a way to put him down and doom the team anyway?

Really, whoever this team gets, you seem to have an issue with.

Nah.  You're misinterpreting me.  I'm a massive Celtic fan.  Kevin Garnett was our savior.  He remains one of the most dominant defensive players in the league.  He transformed this team into a winner.  I've loved Ray Allen since he was traded to the Sonics (I live in Seattle)... there's no player in the league I'd rather take a last-second shot than Ray.  The man has godly clutch ability.  Paul Pierce is my 2nd favorite player of all time behind Larry Bird.  I named my cat after him.  I still think that RIGHT NOW he's a top 5 SF in the league. Rondo is an excellent point guard... an elite playmaker with MAJOR shooting flaws that could cripple his game in a different system.  Then again, I recognize that Rondo could continue to have a Jason Kidd impact on a post Big 3 team.  Kidd was never much of a shooter either. 

I'm in no hurry to trade Rondo, but if a better point guard became available (Deron, Chris Paul, Rose... MAYBE Westbrook) or a guy would had the potential to be better than Rondo and was still on his rookie contract (I was all for a Steph Curry for Rondo trade due to Curry's contract and shooting ability, but I was a minority on that one... and I'd gladly pull the trigger on a Kyrie Irving trade)... I'd have to do it. 

Same can be said of Pierce.  LOVE the guy.  But if LeBron James or Kevin Durant became available, i'd trade Pierce.  There are other players you could talk me into like Melo.  Again, it's not a knock on Pierce.  It's not me being a disloyal hater.  It's about being a realist.  Pierce is in his mid 30s...

From experience utterly dominating fantasy games on this forum... I know for a fact that the majority of the Celtic homers here would make absolutely terrible NBA general managers.  Perhaps seeing the world through green-tinted glasses makes you a more "hardcore" fan... but it doesn't translate well to big picture NBA stuff.

(Pro tip:  If you ever get invited to join a Celtiscblog fantasy draft... stockpile Celtic players and then flip them for legitimate talent.  You'll automatically be one of the best teams in the league.  In one of my leagues I traded Rondo for Chris Paul and Pierce for Blake Griffin... I'm about to cruise to title town)

[BballTim]

From experience utterly dominating fantasy games on this forum... I know for a fact that the majority of the Celtic homers here would make absolutely terrible NBA general managers.  Perhaps seeing the world through green-tinted glasses makes you a more "hardcore" fan... but it doesn't translate well to big picture NBA stuff.

(Pro tip:  If you ever get invited to join a Celtiscblog fantasy draft... stockpile Celtic players and then flip them for legitimate talent.  You'll automatically be one of the best teams in the league.  In one of my leagues I traded Rondo for Chris Paul and Pierce for Blake Griffin... I'm about to cruise to title town)

  Fantasy basketball isn't real basketball. The numbers players put up don't always match their impact on the game, and better fantasy players aren't always better winners. Congrats on your fantasy win, but that doesn't mean you'd be a better gm or have a better view of the big picture than others.

[jdz101]

BBall you are arguing with a guy that has admitted to not watching a Celtic game this year. I wouldn't waste my finger strength.

  Thanks for the warning...

Lol yeah.  Nickagneta, you are adorable.  I've seen every episode of the Cosby Show.  You can't blame me if I miss a few reruns that air on Nick-At-Night.  Especially those later seasons when they added Pam to the roster.  Seen it... know what to expect.   

That said, I finally went back and watched the Heat no-show against us.  That was an encouraging game.  This is the first time all season the Celtics have been interesting.  Kevin Garnett has aged backwards and singlehandedly saved this team by switching to Center... with a little help from player of the week Paul Pierce.  Rondo's doing a good job playing his role too.     

Deron Williams is better.  Thanks. 

This is a pointless topic to argue.  It's pretty established that Deron Williams is a better point guard than Rondo.  Pretty confident Ainge would gladly pull the trigger on a Rondo for Deron swap.  Pretty confident you wouldn't find a GM in the league who has Rondo ranked ahead of Deron.  Luckily it's a non-topic, because Deron will likely be a free agent.   If he decides not to pick up his player option, he'll get a max offer from Boston and we'll see how things shake out.  Most seem to think he's heading to Dallas in such a scenario, but if for some reason he picks Boston... we'll start shopping Rondo to the highest bidder.

 

Hypothetically if Deron did come here, wouldnt you just find a way to put him down and doom the team anyway?

Really, whoever this team gets, you seem to have an issue with.

Nah.  You're misinterpreting me.  I'm a massive Celtic fan.  Kevin Garnett was our savior.  He remains one of the most dominant defensive players in the league.  He transformed this team into a winner.  I've loved Ray Allen since he was traded to the Sonics (I live in Seattle)... there's no player in the league I'd rather take a last-second shot than Ray.  The man has godly clutch ability.  Paul Pierce is my 2nd favorite player of all time behind Larry Bird.  I named my cat after him.  I still think that RIGHT NOW he's a top 5 SF in the league. Rondo is an excellent point guard... an elite playmaker with MAJOR shooting flaws that could cripple his game in a different system.  Then again, I recognize that Rondo could continue to have a Jason Kidd impact on a post Big 3 team.  Kidd was never much of a shooter either. 

I'm in no hurry to trade Rondo, but if a better point guard became available (Deron, Chris Paul, Rose... MAYBE Westbrook) or a guy would had the potential to be better than Rondo and was still on his rookie contract (I was all for a Steph Curry for Rondo trade due to Curry's contract and shooting ability, but I was a minority on that one... and I'd gladly pull the trigger on a Kyrie Irving trade)... I'd have to do it. 

Same can be said of Pierce.  LOVE the guy.  But if LeBron James or Kevin Durant became available, i'd trade Pierce.  There are other players you could talk me into like Melo.  Again, it's not a knock on Pierce.  It's not me being a disloyal hater.  It's about being a realist.  Pierce is in his mid 30s...

From experience utterly dominating fantasy games on this forum... I know for a fact that the majority of the Celtic homers here would make absolutely terrible NBA general managers.  Perhaps seeing the world through green-tinted glasses makes you a more "hardcore" fan... but it doesn't translate well to big picture NBA stuff.

(Pro tip:  If you ever get invited to join a Celtiscblog fantasy draft... stockpile Celtic players and then flip them for legitimate talent.  You'll automatically be one of the best teams in the league.  In one of my leagues I traded Rondo for Chris Paul and Pierce for Blake Griffin... I'm about to cruise to title town)

If we've got one of the dominant defensive power forwards, a top 5 SF, and an excellent point guard then why do you constantly predict that we will miss the playoffs and the bucks will take our spot. Youre going back on your own argument.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

Trading DOWN never made sense to me. Or in this case a 1 for 1..as in, even...no advantage...add a player that you don't need.....we need a rebounder, another center, a tony allen or battier type defender...NOT a PG. Isn't triple doubles enough...? He INVENTED new passes, improved his shot...and some still want more...ugh....